Final Hobbit Film Renamed The Battle of Five Armies

[roseofbattle]

Final Hobbit Film Renamed The Battle of Five Armies

Hobbit director Peter Jackson decided the previous title There And Back Again doesn't fit the movie.

The third and final Hobbit film in director Peter Jackson's trilogy has been renamed from There And Back Again to The Battle of Five Armies. In his announcement, Jackson revealed he's had doubts about the former title since late last year.

"I had a quiet conversation with the studio about the idea of revisiting the title," Jackson said. "We decided to keep an open mind until a cut of the film was ready to look at. We reached that point last week, and after viewing the movie, we all agreed there is now one title that feels completely appropriate."

Jackson explained the title There And Back Again felt appropriate as the title to the second of a two-film story of Bilbo. The series was changed to be a three-parter with the second movie's title as The Desolation of Smaug. With three movies total, Jackson notes There And Back Again as the title of the final movie felt misplaced. "After all, Bilbo already arrived 'there' in the Desolation of Smaug," he said.

However, Jackson hasn't thrown away There And Back Again as a title; he teased the title's presence on a future box set of the trilogy. "As Professor Tolkein intended, There And Back Again encompasses Bilbo's entire adventure," he concluded.

Source: Peter Jackson (Facebook) [https://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ/posts/10152332243996558?stream_ref=10]


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[Exterminas]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

 

[Doomcat]

As long as Legolas's screen time is less then 1/4 what it was in the second film? I'll be more or less happy either way.

 

[Whoracle]

So, the Movie will be almost exclusively about the eponymous battle then, I guess?
Well, there goes the last shred of interest I had for part 3. Part 1 wasn't really to my taste, and I never botherered with part 2, figured I'd just watch all 3 of 'em back to back once they're done (and without 48FPS and 3D in a smelly cinema, thank you very much...), but now I really don't know why I personally should bother.

 

[gigastar]

So, the Movie will be almost exclusively about the eponymous battle then, I guess?

Well, theyve still got to kill Smaug, im sure he survived to the end of the second part.

 

[Whoracle]

Hence the "almost". But didn't they end part 2 with smaug killed off? I thought I'd read something like that on teh intarwebz...

They also have to have the return journey, but since PJ was quoted as "the new title fits better", I guess they'll handle that quick and dirty. If only Fans and Tolkiens zombie mummy didn't force them to make 3 movies out of the book, they could've paced it better. Oh, wait...

 

[Barbas]

Oh, that's right - they were going to make two films, then they decided on three, so the title There And Back Again would have fit part two of Bilbo's adventure better, but since the third film will likely mainly concern the aforementioned battle, I suppose the new title does feel more appropriate. Right, I think I'm on board with that.

 

[NLS]

Hence the "almost". But didn't they end part 2 with smaug killed off? I thought I'd read something like that on teh intarwebz...

Nope, maybe you should've actually watched the movie next time?

OT: The new title does sound more action-oriented than the original. It's not like they're gonna change the plot at this point though, so no "recent" worries about what direction it's going.

 

[Chris Ingersoll]

Oh, that's right - they were going to make two films, then they decided on three, so the title There And Back Again would have fit part two of Bilbo's adventure better, but since the third film will likely mainly concern the aforementioned battle, I suppose the new title does feel more appropriate. Right, I think I'm on board with that.

Using "There and Back Again" as the compilation title (for which I've been putting off purchasing the movies individually) also makes more sense.

 

[Barbas]

Oh, that's right - they were going to make two films, then they decided on three, so the title There And Back Again would have fit part two of Bilbo's adventure better, but since the third film will likely mainly concern the aforementioned battle, I suppose the new title does feel more appropriate. Right, I think I'm on board with that.

Using "There and Back Again" as the compilation title (for which I've been putting off purchasing the movies individually) also makes more sense.

Good point. It is likely to cause some amount of confusion, but I think they should sue that name for the complete collection. It's a good name and it'd be a shame to waste it. Plus it's mentioned in the LOTR films later (well, near the very end of the trilogy), so that may alleviate some confusion - at least for people who have already seen the LOTR trilogy.

 

[Anachronism]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

Pretty much my thoughts. We always knew the Battle was going to be a big part of this movie, even though it takes place almost entirely offscreen in the book, but the fact that it's the title as well says a lot about how far these films have diverged from the book. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the last two, but there was a definite feeling that Jackson was more concerned with making a Lord of the Rings prequel than actually adapting The Hobbit. No whimsical bedtime stories here, just epic bombast and grandiose battles like in the Rings trilogy. God forbid we get something a little different.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Hence the "almost". But didn't they end part 2 with smaug killed off? I thought I'd read something like that on teh intarwebz...

Nope, the second part ended with the dwarves in the mountain, Smaug on his way to Laketown, and Gandalf either captured by the Necromancer or getting ready for a final assault (I honestly can't remember)

My guess on the structure of the third movie (originally predicted back when my friends and I found out there were going to be three movies, and we plotted each, rather accurately so far):

Spoiler: I guess spoilering is the correct action here, though I don't know who on this website would need it

Act 1: Smaug attacks Laketown, gets killed, the Dwarves set up shop in the Mountain.

Act 2: The Necromancer gets dealt with by the wizards, Celeborn, Gladriel, etc. Downbeats of the dwarves and the people of Laketown negotiating.

Act 3: Bilbo steals the Arkenstone, the elves and dwarves of the Iron Hills arrive, then the Battle of Five Armies

Peter Jackson thinks he needs big fight scenes to keep everyone's attention, so it makes sense that he'd use the three he's set up as anchors for each act of the movie.

I'm disappointed but not surprised in the title; the whole trilogy has put the emphasis on the fighting more than the journey. There and Back Again makes sense as the title of the box set, but it would have been nice to remember that the Hobbit isn't about sword battles. Still, there's always hope that the license will expire and it will be remade by people without multi-million special effects budgets to blow.

 

[MrBaskerville]

Now here's a series where i can't wait for the remakes. The second movie was undoubtedly better than the first one, but still nowhere near being a classic. Somehow it must be possible to edit these movies into 1 hour and 30 minutes without all the excrutiating and prolonged action sequences. I keep hoping that the third one will be more like the riddle scene and the Smaug scene, but i just know that i will be let down. Could have been great but kinda turned out to be like the Prequel trilogy only with a watchable second film and hopefully a brilliant ending...

 

[Covarr]

I can't wait for this movie to come out so fans can edit the entire trilogy down into something more worth watching. There's a lot of good content in this trilogy, it's just sandwiched between a bunch of crap and filler.

P.S. Thanks

 

[Soviet Heavy]

How about we save the title There and Back Again: A Hobbit's Tale for a massive re-edit that cuts away all the extraneous bullshit and funnels the entire trilogy down into one four hour film?

 

[JayRPG]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

I see this and similar statements all the time, usually bitching about Legolas being in the movie.

First up, I have read 3 different versions of the hobbit, as well as the silmarillion, unfinished tales, the children of hurin and the 3 part collection of the history of the hobbit.

Tolkien himself didn't have clear vision, he did not have enough time in his life to create what he no doubt wanted.

The Hobbit was released as a fun, children's book. It became popular, very popular and he was asked to write a sequel which never came to be, he then eventually released the lord of the rings (which is actually 6 books in 3 parts) but the hobbit almost didn't fit in at all anymore;
The necromancer was made Sauron in LOTR, the ring was now actually a big plot point (in the very first hobbit book Smeagol actually gives bilbo the ring as if it were just a small treasure) and so many other things.

He made revisions to the hobbit and the book was re-released, he then made further revisions to the book which was then re-released again but neither meshed perfectly and Tokien actually decided to re-write the entire book from scratch over again, he got as far as 3 chapters before deciding against going ahead with a whole re-write. These 3 chapters though were as long as the entire first edition of the hobbit book, and you can read these first 3 chapters in the history of the hobbit collection.

He spent most of his life writing the Silmarillion which wasn't completed in his lifetime, it is basically the bible and history of the universe, unfinished tales features a lot of drafts and stories that Tolkien was never able to finish.

These movies, "The Hobbit", it's not a direct translation from the first hobbit release to a trilogy of movies. This trilogy is drawing on everything Tolkien ever wrote.

90% of the People criticizing Jackson have never even read The Silmarillion let alone any of the other extended works.

Yes, Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit trilogies are more action focused compared to the books... but they are movies, it's a big format change and almost every fantasy book that has been adapted to film has had a bigger emphasis on action or exciting scenes.

I am now going to address everyone who complains about Legolas being in the movie;
"Legolas wasn't even in the hobbit"
Was he in any of the 3 revised editions of the hobbit book? No. Would he have been in the re-write Tolkien started? Most signs point to yes.

Legolas is roughly 3500 years old, he IS the son of Thranduil (who is roughly 5000 years old), the timeline in which The Hobbit takes place DOES put Legolas in Mirkwood with his father and being the Son of the King of the Woodland Realm do you not think he would be a rather prominent figure?
Given we know that he was alive, very well matured and highly skilled AND that he WAS in the woodland realm at the time the book and movie takes place how exactly do you omit him?

Jackson has stayed frightfully loyal to a lot of Tokien's work, Yes, he created Tauriel but there is absolutely no sexism within the Elven race, she could have easily risen to the rank she is and if it weren't her there would be someone else there that wasn't named in the book because most elves were not named or even mentioned, despite there being as many as 8000 elves in The Woodland realm at the time of the hobbit;
He created Tauriel but his attention to detail shows hugely just by him creating her because she is a Silvan elf, he made the features distinct and it is very important in keeping with the Tokien universe.

Most of the population of Mirkwood are Silvan elves, Thranduil and Legolas are Sindarin elves, only 2-300 Sindarin elves would be present in Mirkwood, the other ~8000 are Silvan elves who are considered by Sindarin elves (and the Eldar) to be much less wise, hence the warrior elves of mirkwood. The very fact that Thranduil objects to a union between Legolas and the lowly Silvan Tauriel shows Jackson knows Tolkien through and through.

While Jackson hasn't remained 100% faithful, he is doing a damn good job given the unfinished universe and texts that Tolkien left behind (that are still being compiled and finished by his son to this day).
Keep in mind that not even JRR Tolkien himself made The Hobbit and LOTR mesh and even he would have to rewrite the entire book (which he did start to do) to make it fit in with the universe he has created.

 

[jFr[e]ak93]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

Pretty much my thoughts. We always knew the Battle was going to be a big part of this movie, even though it takes place almost entirely offscreen in the book, but the fact that it's the title as well says a lot about how far these films have diverged from the book. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the last two, but there was a definite feeling that Jackson was more concerned with making a Lord of the Rings prequel than actually adapting The Hobbit. No whimsical bedtime stories here, just epic bombast and grandiose battles like in the Rings trilogy. God forbid we get something a little different.

I wouldn't say it happened off screen... I felt like the book really shifted in tone when the battle began. It went from a whimsy filled journey to war memoir.

That being said, I agree Jackson isn't trying to adapt the books properly.

OT I like There And Back Again as a title better. The Battle of Five Armies sounds like the subtitle of a video game franchise that has gone on too long.

 

[luvd1]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

I see this and similar statements all the time, usually bitching about Legolas being in the movie.

First up, I have read 3 different versions of the hobbit, as well as the silmarillion, unfinished tales, the children of hurin and the 3 part collection of the history of the hobbit.

Tolkien himself didn't have clear vision, he did not have enough time in his life to create what he no doubt wanted.

The Hobbit was released as a fun, children's book. It became popular, very popular and he was asked to write a sequel which never came to be, he then eventually released the lord of the rings (which is actually 6 books in 3 parts) but the hobbit almost didn't fit in at all anymore;
The necromancer was made Sauron in LOTR, the ring was now actually a big plot point (in the very first hobbit book Smeagol actually gives bilbo the ring as if it were just a small treasure) and so many other things.

He made revisions to the hobbit and the book was re-released, he then made further revisions to the book which was then re-released again but neither meshed perfectly and Tokien actually decided to re-write the entire book from scratch over again, he got as far as 3 chapters before deciding against going ahead with a whole re-write. These 3 chapters though were as long as the entire first edition of the hobbit book, and you can read these first 3 chapters in the history of the hobbit collection.

He spent most of his life writing the Silmarillion which wasn't completed in his lifetime, it is basically the bible and history of the universe, unfinished tales features a lot of drafts and stories that Tolkien was never able to finish.

These movies, "The Hobbit", it's not a direct translation from the first hobbit release to a trilogy of movies. This trilogy is drawing on everything Tolkien ever wrote.

90% of the People criticizing Jackson have never even read The Silmarillion let alone any of the other extended works.

Yes, Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit trilogies are more action focused compared to the books... but they are movies, it's a big format change and almost every fantasy book that has been adapted to film has had a bigger emphasis on action or exciting scenes.

I am now going to address everyone who complains about Legolas being in the movie;
"Legolas wasn't even in the hobbit"
Was he in any of the 3 revised editions of the hobbit book? No. Would he have been in the re-write Tolkien started? Most signs point to yes.

Legolas is roughly 3500 years old, he IS the son of Thranduil (who is roughly 5000 years old), the timeline in which The Hobbit takes place DOES put Legolas in Mirkwood with his father and being the Son of the King of the Woodland Realm do you not think he would be a rather prominent figure?
Given we know that he was alive, very well matured and highly skilled AND that he WAS in the woodland realm at the time the book and movie takes place how exactly do you omit him?

Jackson has stayed frightfully loyal to a lot of Tokien's work, Yes, he created Tauriel but there is absolutely no sexism within the Elven race, she could have easily risen to the rank she is and if it weren't her there would be someone else there that wasn't named in the book because most elves were not named or even mentioned, despite there being as many as 8000 elves in The Woodland realm at the time of the hobbit;
He created Tauriel but his attention to detail shows hugely just by him creating her because she is a Silvan elf, he made the features distinct and it is very important in keeping with the Tokien universe.

Most of the population of Mirkwood are Silvan elves, Thranduil and Legolas are Sindarin elves, only 2-300 Sindarin elves would be present in Mirkwood, the other ~8000 are Silvan elves who are considered by Sindarin elves (and the Eldar) to be much less wise, hence the warrior elves of mirkwood. The very fact that Thranduil objects to a union between Legolas and the lowly Silvan Tauriel shows Jackson knows Tolkien through and through.

While Jackson hasn't remained 100% faithful, he is doing a damn good job given the unfinished universe and texts that Tolkien left behind (that are still being compiled and finished by his son to this day).
Keep in mind that not even JRR Tolkien himself made The Hobbit and LOTR mesh and even he would have to rewrite the entire book (which he did start to do) to make it fit in with the universe he has created.

Can't really argue with that. You know your onions and I tip my hat to you sir.

 

[JaceArveduin]

I am pretty sure that at this point Tolkien's intentions are not a major concern to this project.

Spoiler

I see this and similar statements all the time, usually bitching about Legolas being in the movie.

First up, I have read 3 different versions of the hobbit, as well as the silmarillion, unfinished tales, the children of hurin and the 3 part collection of the history of the hobbit.

Tolkien himself didn't have clear vision, he did not have enough time in his life to create what he no doubt wanted.

The Hobbit was released as a fun, children's book. It became popular, very popular and he was asked to write a sequel which never came to be, he then eventually released the lord of the rings (which is actually 6 books in 3 parts) but the hobbit almost didn't fit in at all anymore;
The necromancer was made Sauron in LOTR, the ring was now actually a big plot point (in the very first hobbit book Smeagol actually gives bilbo the ring as if it were just a small treasure) and so many other things.

He made revisions to the hobbit and the book was re-released, he then made further revisions to the book which was then re-released again but neither meshed perfectly and Tokien actually decided to re-write the entire book from scratch over again, he got as far as 3 chapters before deciding against going ahead with a whole re-write. These 3 chapters though were as long as the entire first edition of the hobbit book, and you can read these first 3 chapters in the history of the hobbit collection.

He spent most of his life writing the Silmarillion which wasn't completed in his lifetime, it is basically the bible and history of the universe, unfinished tales features a lot of drafts and stories that Tolkien was never able to finish.

These movies, "The Hobbit", it's not a direct translation from the first hobbit release to a trilogy of movies. This trilogy is drawing on everything Tolkien ever wrote.

90% of the People criticizing Jackson have never even read The Silmarillion let alone any of the other extended works.

Yes, Peter Jackson's LOTR and Hobbit trilogies are more action focused compared to the books... but they are movies, it's a big format change and almost every fantasy book that has been adapted to film has had a bigger emphasis on action or exciting scenes.

I am now going to address everyone who complains about Legolas being in the movie;
"Legolas wasn't even in the hobbit"
Was he in any of the 3 revised editions of the hobbit book? No. Would he have been in the re-write Tolkien started? Most signs point to yes.

Legolas is roughly 3500 years old, he IS the son of Thranduil (who is roughly 5000 years old), the timeline in which The Hobbit takes place DOES put Legolas in Mirkwood with his father and being the Son of the King of the Woodland Realm do you not think he would be a rather prominent figure?
Given we know that he was alive, very well matured and highly skilled AND that he WAS in the woodland realm at the time the book and movie takes place how exactly do you omit him?

Jackson has stayed frightfully loyal to a lot of Tokien's work, Yes, he created Tauriel but there is absolutely no sexism within the Elven race, she could have easily risen to the rank she is and if it weren't her there would be someone else there that wasn't named in the book because most elves were not named or even mentioned, despite there being as many as 8000 elves in The Woodland realm at the time of the hobbit;
He created Tauriel but his attention to detail shows hugely just by him creating her because she is a Silvan elf, he made the features distinct and it is very important in keeping with the Tokien universe.

Most of the population of Mirkwood are Silvan elves, Thranduil and Legolas are Sindarin elves, only 2-300 Sindarin elves would be present in Mirkwood, the other ~8000 are Silvan elves who are considered by Sindarin elves (and the Eldar) to be much less wise, hence the warrior elves of mirkwood. The very fact that Thranduil objects to a union between Legolas and the lowly Silvan Tauriel shows Jackson knows Tolkien through and through.

While Jackson hasn't remained 100% faithful, he is doing a damn good job given the unfinished universe and texts that Tolkien left behind (that are still being compiled and finished by his son to this day).
Keep in mind that not even JRR Tolkien himself made The Hobbit and LOTR mesh and even he would have to rewrite the entire book (which he did start to do) to make it fit in with the universe he has created.

Can't really argue with that. You know your onions and I tip my hat to you sir.

Seem's pretty spot on to me. Combine this with that one clip from War in the North where Gandalf tells you why just having an eagle fly the ring to Mordor/dwarves to Erebor is a daft idea and we've pretty well got the "plot-holes" covered.