Military Hacker Wins Right to Appeal Against US Extradition

[Logan Westbrook]

Military Hacker Wins Right to Appeal Against US Extradition

Gary McKinnon, the British hacker accused of carrying out 'the biggest military computer hack of all time' has won the right to appeal against his extradition to the U.S. for trial.

The 42 year old, who was diagnosed as having Asperger's Syndrome last August, admitted to hacking into 97 American government computers, including networks for NASA, Army and the Department of Defense, looking for information on UFOs that he believed the American government was suppressing, causing damages that were estimated at $800,000 - $1 million.

McKinnon believes he will get a fair trial in the UK, and if convicted, will face only a 3-4 year sentence, rather than the possible 70 year sentence he would face in the U.S.

McKinnon's lawyers argued that, despite the damage caused, McKinnon had no malicious intent and if extradited, would be at risk of psychosis or suicide. Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, who diagnosed Mr McKinnon with Asperger's, said "We should be thinking about this as the activity of somebody with a disability rather than a criminal activity."

UK Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has agreed to postpone McKinnon's extradition until the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, has reviewed his case in March.

Source: BBC [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7846442.stm]



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[Skrapt]

The USA certainly wouldn't extradite to the UK if the situation were reversed so I say charge him here in the UK, he didn't intend to cause any damage and the money spent repairing the damage was probably spent upgrading security to prevent further attacks - which is probably money well spent, better a conspiracy nut then someone actually capable of doing some real damage with that sort of information.

 

[Theo Samaritan]

SO *claps hands together* Where shall we hack next?

I agree with Skrapt, on all points.

 

[DeadMG]

Agreed. If he could get into their mainframe, it really was a necessary wakeup call. They should be thanking him, not trying to prosecute him.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

Agreed. If he could get into their mainframe, it really was a necessary wakeup call. They should be thanking him, not trying to prosecute him.

There you go, the US should hire him to build up their defences!

 

[Bonaggy]

This case has been so overexposed by the media that it's hard to have a fair view on it. Some will argue that, regardless of his Asperger's Syndrome, he knew what he was doing was illegal when he committed the crime--[Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome if you need more info on AS]--and so should be deported immediately as his actions have had a massive, real world, criminal impact, in this case on the US Armed Forces & government computer infrastructure.

Others would put forward that it was because of his AS--in spite of its leaving intact of linguistic and cognitive functions--that led to McKinnon's breaking of the law because he was interested in UFOs and his AS just wouldn't let him leave off searching anywhere and everywhere in search of "the truth". The other part of the argument is that because of his AS if we extradited him he'd suffer psychosis and possibly kill himself.

I agree with Skrapt that at least it was Mr McKinnon who broke into their network--a humble civilian interested in UFOs--and not a terrorist with an axe to grind so the money needed to fix his intrusion is, all in all, not so much damage as necessary maintenance.

On the other hand, AS does not leave someone unable to differentiate right from wrong and, therefore, as he knowingly hacked into computers he knew well enough he should leave alone and thereby knowingly committed a criminal act--whereby he should accept what he did and take the punishment such an act merits.

Mr McKinnon's case has--as they say--become highly political and no one solution will ever be satisfactory. In the end, I believe Mr McKinnon has brought this on himself and should face trial in the United States HOWEVER any sentence should be served in a prison in the United Kingdom so that his family can support him through his time and his AS monitored by people here already familiar with it, perhaps even his current GP.

We can't go into the future and see what would happen if A or B were chosen. Only time will tell what should have been done.

 

[Cousin_IT]

he did all that to look for files on UFOs? Wasted talent

 

[Jack and Calumon]

I say, "Why punish him? He's pointed out a security flaw and now you feel a bit silly don't you America? How about you stop going mad at him and decide to actually do something about your internet security flaw, like have 1 billion different firewalls, each with it's own unique 50 digit password and for the hell of it, have a rubiks cube to solve midway. But this could be shorter for employees, because they should never turn there computers off.

That's actually a good idea.

 

[Scypemonk]

On one hand, this guy's lawyer argues that his mental condition should be taken special care off. As one one who has asperger, and spends time with alot of other people who also have it, i can safely presume that its just a way to use a lesser knowing court's ignorance to McKinnon's advantage, unless he álso has other diagnoses not mentioned (most aspergers do, about 50% also have ADHD, among other conditions).

On the other hand, he haven't really done any critical damage, or revealed any governmental secrets (maybe), so 4-5 years sounds pretty fair.

I say, "Why punish him? He's pointed out a security flaw and now you feel a bit silly don't you America? How about you stop going mad at him and decide to actually do something about your internet security flaw, like have 1 billion different firewalls, each with it's own unique 50 digit password and for the hell of it, have a rubiks cube to solve midway. But this could be shorter for employees, because they should never turn there computers off.

That's actually a good idea.

Then you just use one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fAn5A0HbhU

I can see the headlines: "8 year old boy breaks into FBI mainframe, using evil lego."

 

[Erana]

...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

 

[Skrapt]

Mr McKinnon's case has--as they say--become highly political and no one solution will ever be satisfactory. In the end, I believe Mr McKinnon has brought this on himself and should face trial in the United States HOWEVER any sentence should be served in a prison in the United Kingdom so that his family can support him through his time and his AS monitored by people here already familiar with it, perhaps even his current GP.

We can't go into the future and see what would happen if A or B were chosen. Only time will tell what should have been done.

I don't have a problem with him facing trial in the USA per se, what I do have a problem with is that in the UK he would face a 4-5 year sentence, whereas in the USA he would probably face a 70 year sentence. The idea of justice is to punish someone enough to know what they were doing was wrong and not do it again, and the US government has made it painfully clear that they will try to get the maximum sentence possible regardless of the fact that McKinnon already knows what he has done was wrong (by pleading guilty) and even attempted to enter into a plea deal with the US by telling them exactly how he did it (which to my understanding fell through because the people offering the deal hadn't been authorized to do so), those actions show he doesn't deserve the jail sentence he is extremely likely to receive in the US courts.

Although I do also have a problem with the fact that if a US citizen had been hacking into the equivalent computer systems in the UK, that the US would more then likely refuse to extradite him and bring the charges against him in a US court. Which is all that the UK is trying to do.

 

[Jumplion]

I say, "Why punish him? He's pointed out a security flaw and now you feel a bit silly don't you America?a.

how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

Regardless of whether he took anything or not, he broke in knowing what he was doing is illegal. I don't care if he as Aspergers Syndrome, ADD, ADHD, or OLED, most people control it and don't go around hacking government computers.

Really, if this was an American who hacked into the UK government computers, everyone would want him hanged or something.

He broke in government files, and he could have done some serious damage. Simple as that. Whatever he gets is good enough for whatever he did, that's what I think.

EDIT: Necroswanson puts it nicely I s'pose.

 

[Specter_]

The USA certainly wouldn't extradite to the UK if the situation were reversed so I say charge him here in the UK, he didn't intend to cause any damage and the money spent repairing the damage was probably spent upgrading security to prevent further attacks - which is probably money well spent, better a conspiracy nut then someone actually capable of doing some real damage with that sort of information.

This. Especially the first line.

how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

 

[ianuam]

I can't believe that people aren't talking about what he actually found in there. He claims to have found evidence of a massive cover-up by the American government and yet people aren't linking that with the fact that the U.S.A is pursuing him so voraciously.

 

[Chezzz]

He won't get extradited, MI6 or whoever will recruit him.

 

[Skrapt]

I think the lawyer is trying to blow Aspergers out of proportion to make it seem as tough he's mentally unstable. He's not, he knew exactly what he was doing, he caused some massive damage.
I don't give a rats ass what his intent was, this was an attack. Hacking a government network and damage it, you are attacking. Screw that he was looking for "UFOs", that's just what he says he was looking for. There is no way to tell what he learned in there and what deals he's willing to make now. That was an attack, and he needs to be behind bars for quite some time.

Do you understand Asperger's then? Evidently not, although Asperger's isn't as bad as Autism can be it shows some of the basic underpinnings, namely not being able to differentiate between right and wrong easily and poor social skills (usually in the form of not being able to read body language). So how do you know that he knew what he was doing was wrong? He broke the law and should face charges for that, but the difference in sentences he'd receive in the UK and US mean that he really shouldn't be extradited - especially since he's made an obvious effort to make up for his crimes (by telling the US exactly how he did it and allowing them to fix their lax security - which is probably where the costs were incurred). So why exactly should he go behind bars for a long time? He knows what he did was wrong and wouldn't do it again, either through personal choice or through the restrictions already placed upon him and the computers he uses.

 

[Jumplion]

how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I think my analogy is better.

It's like you should be thanking the theif for pointing out a security flaw while he's pointing a gun at your head. Then the theif finds out that what he's looking for isn't there, and leaves. He still broke in, knowing fully well that what he was doing was illegal.

And even if I take your analogy, is the store owner going to care if you took anything or not? He pointed a gun at his head, he could have caused some serious trouble, and he was doing something illegal. That can't be excused by saying "Oh, thank you for pointing out that flaw in my metal detector".

But I'm not saying that 5-7 years is too little, I'm just surprised that people are saying that the US should thank someone who could have destroyed the whole computer system.

 

[Specter_]

how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I think my analogy is better.

It's like you should be thanking the theif for pointing out a security flaw while he's pointing a gun at your head. Then the theif finds out that what he's looking for isn't there, and leaves. He still broke in, knowing fully well that what he was doing was illegal.

And even if I take your analogy, is the store owner going to care if you took anything or not? He pointed a gun at his head, he could have caused some serious trouble, and he was doing something illegal. That can't be excused by saying "Oh, thank you for pointing out that flaw in my metal detector".

But I'm not saying that 5-7 years is too little, I'm just surprised that people are saying that the US should thank someone who could have destroyed the whole computer system.

Then we have no further ground for an argument, because we stand on the same side.
I too think he should be punished, same goes for the nutjob in the store who checked the milk, but 70 years is way too much. I agree that he doesn't deserve thanks, there are professional hackers who look for security-gaps for money (and probably gratitude), but come on: 70 years? For being nuts?

And Skrapts argument still stands.