Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Mid-Season Finale Doesn't Really Surprise
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I respectfully disagree. I personally felt it was one of the better episodes of the season, and did a fairly admirable job stretching the limited SFX budget into a couple pretty awesome scenes.
Oh... and no way is Mack dead. With the groundwork they've laid for whatever the hell he and Bobbi are up to, he's definitely alive.
Oh... and no way is Mack dead. With the groundwork they've laid for whatever the hell he and Bobbi are up to, he's definitely alive.
Wasn't it pretty explicit that once the transformation was done he went back to normal? I seem to remember Mack collapsing followed by Coulson helping him up at the end.WarpedLord said:
Anyway it's nice to see that it was in fact the inhumans, though I'm pretty disappointed that the only reason the human caught up in the mix died was because of his own ignorance on how the transformation worked.
Seemed pretty clear to me, but many people (Bob included, apparently) seem to have missed it.Zontar said:
Also, on the issue of Mack, they spent some time with Fitz-Simmons explaining how he would be simply under control, rather than dead or replaced somehow.
I also thought it was one of the better episodes so far, though I have the luxury of not having seen any promotional material for this episode.
I also thought it was one of the better episodes so far, though I have the luxury of not having seen any promotional material for this episode.
I actually enjoyed it. I'll admit, the budget needs a major upgrade (which begs the question of which asshole do we have to smack around with a meat tenderizer to make that happen?) and the death of two main characters was a bummer (in more ways than one), but this mid-season finale did a good job set up the pieces for the upcoming Inhumans movie. That's a hell of a long game for Marvel to go with. Plus, while any comic book fan worth their weight in Marvel No-Prize easily deducted who Sky and her dad's true identity, it's a nice set up for what is to come for the rest of the season.
Sadly, we have to wait until March for the second half. But at least Agent Carter will keep us busy.
So, what does this mean for the Agents of SHIELD Intermission now that there is a gap between now and January?
Sadly, we have to wait until March for the second half. But at least Agent Carter will keep us busy.
So, what does this mean for the Agents of SHIELD Intermission now that there is a gap between now and January?
I don't think Mack is dead, he is seen being carried by Coulson and after the Crystal blow up it seemed like his mind was free again. Remain to explain how he was able to survive such a long fall and if he is keeping that ability.
Tripp, on the other end, id ead and died a poor death. Wonder if he would have survived, had he not kicked the Crystal.
Tripp, on the other end, id ead and died a poor death. Wonder if he would have survived, had he not kicked the Crystal.
I thought the episode was fairly good (as far as tv goes). Now that the show is going more Marvel, I'll likely keep watching it. I was pretty surprised that they killed off Trip, what with him being related to one of the Howling Commandos.
I enjoyed it, although I was let down when "the Devil's sentry" turned out to be mind control self-defense. I was thinking, "An underground Kree relic, defended by a "sentry"! What else could it be but,
a Kree sentry
Beyond that, I'm disappointed that I didn't recognize the connection between Daisy and Quake. I did enjoy that neither Coulson nor Skye hesitated before pulling the trigger on Whitehall and Ward respectively. Bad guy in sight, shoot'em. Hopefully Mac makes it out alive. It would force Fitz and Simmons back together with their respective buddies out of the picture, but should try to keep their avg. black characters lifespans high. They've done well up to now with War Machine/Iron Patriot, the Falcon and Samuel L. Jackson/Nick Fury. It would be a shame to ruin it in a television series.
Beyond that, I'm disappointed that I didn't recognize the connection between Daisy and Quake. I did enjoy that neither Coulson nor Skye hesitated before pulling the trigger on Whitehall and Ward respectively. Bad guy in sight, shoot'em. Hopefully Mac makes it out alive. It would force Fitz and Simmons back together with their respective buddies out of the picture, but should try to keep their avg. black characters lifespans high. They've done well up to now with War Machine/Iron Patriot, the Falcon and Samuel L. Jackson/Nick Fury. It would be a shame to ruin it in a television series.
I'm not surprised Tripp got offed instead of Mack. Tripp was the "cool gadgets" guy, and if Fitz is getting better he might become extra baggage. Mack was involved in sorting Fitz/Simmons, and we still have his backstory with Bobbi to resolve.
Interesting that Agent 33 had a crisis when Whitehall got shot, it reinforced the idea that the conditioning was loyalty to him personally, not HYDRA necessarily. Her whole life just fell apart.
Loved the look on his face though. Like he was expecting to be able to take on Cal and live.
As to whether he's really dead though, I guess it depends. Skye was going to die until she got the injection, she was already "special". Cal seemed to think he was dead dead, not just mostly dead, and he's a doctor. Plus arch nemesis and all, you'd think he'd double check to make sure.
I was wondering about the earthquake, I thought maybe it was an aftereffect of the transformation process (the process was interrupted by the diviner being destroyed afterall), but if she can manipulate earthquakes that makes more sense then.
Interesting that Agent 33 had a crisis when Whitehall got shot, it reinforced the idea that the conditioning was loyalty to him personally, not HYDRA necessarily. Her whole life just fell apart.
Loved the look on his face though. Like he was expecting to be able to take on Cal and live.
As to whether he's really dead though, I guess it depends. Skye was going to die until she got the injection, she was already "special". Cal seemed to think he was dead dead, not just mostly dead, and he's a doctor. Plus arch nemesis and all, you'd think he'd double check to make sure.
I was wondering about the earthquake, I thought maybe it was an aftereffect of the transformation process (the process was interrupted by the diviner being destroyed afterall), but if she can manipulate earthquakes that makes more sense then.
Wait... was there a tremor when Skye wakes up? I thought it was just the transition from the slow motion effect.
In any case, yes... it seems all the theories this season were right from the start: Skye is Daisy Johnson, her father is Mr Hyde, the city was Attilan and the Inhumans are here. I am looking forward to seeing how they tie it up with the movies (at this point, it is safe to assume Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are inhumans as well, right? I am guessing more of the Terrigen mist gets released in Avengers 2 and that ties to those "world changing events" of this season like HYDRA being the one from last season...
In any case, yes... it seems all the theories this season were right from the start: Skye is Daisy Johnson, her father is Mr Hyde, the city was Attilan and the Inhumans are here. I am looking forward to seeing how they tie it up with the movies (at this point, it is safe to assume Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are inhumans as well, right? I am guessing more of the Terrigen mist gets released in Avengers 2 and that ties to those "world changing events" of this season like HYDRA being the one from last season...
I confess to some slight disappointment. I had been omitting the whole "Quake"/"Mr. Hyde" thing in thinking that you might have seen the show creating some original characters. A conscious attempt for TV to modify comics continuity especially with Marvel wanting to do various reboots on it's comics. I've been looking towards how characters from "Smallville" and "Batman: The Animated Series" wound up being introduced into the mainstream DC continuity. That said, I suppose them showing they could use established characters, somewhat, isn't surprising.
As far as the black characters being killed, maybe, maybe not. Joss Whedon hasn't been one for forced diversity, indeed trying to force that on him is supposed to be one of the reasons why "Buffy" was cancelled when he didn't want to play ball, and arguably the last season suffered for him being made to shoehorn in characters he didn't want to make and give them X amount of screen time. Apparently the whole "Principal Vs. Spike" plotline was supposed to be something he did under duress and there was a reason why it had nothing to do with the rest of the narrative of the season. Ditto for the one black "potential slayer" featuring in some extended scenes that were ultimately more or less irrelevant.
Right now both of the characters of "color" have more or less served their purpose. Trip seemed to exist largely to form a bridge with the upcoming "Agent Carter" and to act as another body/action guy while Ward was evil. Now Skye can jump into an action role more easily herself. Our other character of color existed largely as someone for a certain brain damaged scientist to play off of while his regular dialogue partner was occupied in other plot-centric activities, now that she's been brought back into more regular interface with the rest of the team the character served it's purpose.
The point I'm getting at here is that I wouldn't consider political correctness a reason to ensure their survival at this point especially with Mae and Raina as a main cast member and recurring role (quite probably upped to major antagonist) respectively filling the diversity roster to deflect criticism or network input... assuming your even thinking in those terms. I was thinking our "Deathlok" from the first season was going to be more of a regular as well but that didn't seem to pan out and they did more with him than they did with either of the two characters that might have just bit it. That said of the two I think Trip is more likely to survive, if for no other reason than to form a sort of indirect temporal bridge between SHEILD and Agent Carter, allowing them to say introduce something in AC and then have Trip discover something related to it in his old Howling Commando memorabilia.
That said Raina being Raina strike me as being the bigger surprise unless they plan to introduce "The Savage Land" as a major plot element for a while. Hey, who knows, while we're getting into fairly obscure characters maybe it will turn out Mae is actually Leash, an REALLY obscure character who I believe only appeared once, being an Asian girl in a dominatrix outfit whose power is to create a power negation leash and served the purpose of briefly negating powers on behalf of the "Savage Land Mutants" and helping to hold heroes prisoners.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Leash_(Earth-616)
Ahh there we go, found her, 8 appearances it says but only mentions one comic which is probably where I remember her from. Want obscure, that's probably one nobody would see coming, especially as a regular, heh. It might even wind up serving a role in the series if they need a way to justify capturing various super-criminals as they become more prevalent and keeping them on ice long enough to get them into holding. As well as giving Mae a certain degree of power parity with Skye now that Skye is turning into an action-girl herself and actually did pretty well against a character that already had a good showing against Mae (ie Agent 33, here double) and will arguably only get better.
As far as the black characters being killed, maybe, maybe not. Joss Whedon hasn't been one for forced diversity, indeed trying to force that on him is supposed to be one of the reasons why "Buffy" was cancelled when he didn't want to play ball, and arguably the last season suffered for him being made to shoehorn in characters he didn't want to make and give them X amount of screen time. Apparently the whole "Principal Vs. Spike" plotline was supposed to be something he did under duress and there was a reason why it had nothing to do with the rest of the narrative of the season. Ditto for the one black "potential slayer" featuring in some extended scenes that were ultimately more or less irrelevant.
Right now both of the characters of "color" have more or less served their purpose. Trip seemed to exist largely to form a bridge with the upcoming "Agent Carter" and to act as another body/action guy while Ward was evil. Now Skye can jump into an action role more easily herself. Our other character of color existed largely as someone for a certain brain damaged scientist to play off of while his regular dialogue partner was occupied in other plot-centric activities, now that she's been brought back into more regular interface with the rest of the team the character served it's purpose.
The point I'm getting at here is that I wouldn't consider political correctness a reason to ensure their survival at this point especially with Mae and Raina as a main cast member and recurring role (quite probably upped to major antagonist) respectively filling the diversity roster to deflect criticism or network input... assuming your even thinking in those terms. I was thinking our "Deathlok" from the first season was going to be more of a regular as well but that didn't seem to pan out and they did more with him than they did with either of the two characters that might have just bit it. That said of the two I think Trip is more likely to survive, if for no other reason than to form a sort of indirect temporal bridge between SHEILD and Agent Carter, allowing them to say introduce something in AC and then have Trip discover something related to it in his old Howling Commando memorabilia.
That said Raina being Raina strike me as being the bigger surprise unless they plan to introduce "The Savage Land" as a major plot element for a while. Hey, who knows, while we're getting into fairly obscure characters maybe it will turn out Mae is actually Leash, an REALLY obscure character who I believe only appeared once, being an Asian girl in a dominatrix outfit whose power is to create a power negation leash and served the purpose of briefly negating powers on behalf of the "Savage Land Mutants" and helping to hold heroes prisoners.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Leash_(Earth-616)
Ahh there we go, found her, 8 appearances it says but only mentions one comic which is probably where I remember her from. Want obscure, that's probably one nobody would see coming, especially as a regular, heh. It might even wind up serving a role in the series if they need a way to justify capturing various super-criminals as they become more prevalent and keeping them on ice long enough to get them into holding. As well as giving Mae a certain degree of power parity with Skye now that Skye is turning into an action-girl herself and actually did pretty well against a character that already had a good showing against Mae (ie Agent 33, here double) and will arguably only get better.
I will have to watch it again, but now that they spelled out her real name and her fathers name, it is pretty much confirmed.jabrwock said:
Oh well... I hope her being an earth bender does not put too much of a dent in their budget. One of the most interesting theories around was that her "mutant" powers allowed for people to like her more, which would a) explain a bit the Mary Sue complex she had in season 1, and b) give the producers a power that works better for TV budget, since it is not visual enough.
By the way, I agree with Bob that Whitehall's death was a little too easy and anticlimactic, so I would not be surprised if he is not dead at all. But that would make The Doctor the worst MD ever, ironic since he is called "The Doctor" and was the husband of Ms Highlander.
Pretty sure Mac's alive, Bob...
And how did you not think this was a great episode?
Your hopes must've been Skye-high!
Loved that we finally get Daisy as a character, Mr. Hyde confirmed...
The only thing that sucked was: NO HEADSHOTS??????
Seriously, the world's best secret agents and they never go for the "sure way" finisher?
Of course Whitehall will walk away from that.
It made no sense that Cal didn't rip his head off anyway, characterwise. It's nice for keeping the rating low for lack of gore, and Whitehall still kicking, but for Cal to not at least get his revenge even a little is just stupid. He's an MD AND knows about Whitehall's special powers!!!
And how did you not think this was a great episode?
Your hopes must've been Skye-high!
Loved that we finally get Daisy as a character, Mr. Hyde confirmed...
The only thing that sucked was: NO HEADSHOTS??????
Seriously, the world's best secret agents and they never go for the "sure way" finisher?
Of course Whitehall will walk away from that.
It made no sense that Cal didn't rip his head off anyway, characterwise. It's nice for keeping the rating low for lack of gore, and Whitehall still kicking, but for Cal to not at least get his revenge even a little is just stupid. He's an MD AND knows about Whitehall's special powers!!!
Well, that is the operative theory. I confess I was hoping for a little more, but it makes a degree of sense, the background is similar without being identical to the comics, and you have to expect them to change things around given the needs of the cinematic universe. Quake powers are fairly easy to do on a low budget (along with telekinesis and invisibility) and I suppose over time as the stakes in the world raise they can gradually introduce enough Super Humans for SHIELD to have it's own team.hermes200 said:
That said I'm guessing Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch are going to be products of genetic engineering going by the out-tro in the movie trailer. I suppose they could be meta-humans, but given the way they were being held/tested made me think they might be creations of our bad guy (Von Strucker) and his henchmen. They aren't using Magneto or mutants, and to be honest these characters blur the distinction between X-men and non- X-men characters and for licensing reasons I'd imagine they would want to define these characters as differently as they can from the comics, since the whole "inhumans" thing is already stretching it. Indeed we're kind of lucky that nobody has brought up the fact that the Inhumans *ARE* mutants going back to a time when it seemed to be hip at Marvel to explain that all super humans were, even if they didn't realize it. Back in the day due to contract with TSR the "Marvel RPG" was an official product, but the deal fell apart due to Marvel not wanting to give TSR constant updates on the comics and pre-release information. This is why the old "Gamer's Handbook To The Marvel Universe" thing was such a good reference for a while, albeit the original cash making plan of TSR getting constant updates and releasing monthly updates along side the comics never transpired. They did have some in "Dragon Magazine" though. This business deal (or at least how it was presented at the time) is something a lot of people aren't aware of, and I'd imagine one of the reasons why the game has become borderline "public domain" is that nobody could likely get permission from the rights holders (whomever they might be right now since WoTC owns TSR's old properties) to do a re-release of the FASERIP system which was popular for a while. At any rate if you take a look at the origins table in "The Ultimate Powers Handbook" you'll notice The Inhumans are classified as "Breed Mutants" if I remember the term correctly, along with other classes of mutants. The point being that very few characters at the time really had powers that were still being defined as something else. I believe they implied things like how the reason why "The Super Soldier Serum" didn't work on anyone but Captain America is because the crisis of having that injected in him triggered his mutation, the Gamma Bomb explosion triggered Bruce Banner's mutation allowing him to survive, ditto for the spider biting Peter Parker. All of this coming from the tendency of mutants to develop their powers in response to crisis which can at times reflect what was needed to allow them to survive at the time. Needless to say this was all retconned and a lot of it was implied, but if lawyers dig they could argue Sony owns "The Inhumans" and the Terigen mist is simply a very powerful mutagen. At the time you basically had mutants, technology, aliens, or supernatural heroes, though the RPG did leave the door open for other types of characters with classic origins, it was following the trends of the time, especially seeing as a few things still existed in gray areas such as whether The Fantastic Four were actually given their powers by cosmic rays, or if the cosmic rays simply triggered mutations. That said someone like say Henry Pym was a non-mutant as he was using a technology which could also be exploited by other people who obtained it.
Sounds silly, but I've heard of legal cases being made out of less, especially in civil courts which have a very low standard of evidence, in this case coming down to the standard of "clear and convincing testimony" if I recall, it might go to a "preponderance of evidence" but in such a case things could get really wild and maybe even lead to a resolution where it's determined both rights holders can use some of these characters.
The point here being that I'm guessing Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch will be tied to Nazi/hydra technology and not the Inhumans. I could be very wrong there, but if I was the paranoid keeping a legal eye on things I'd want to keep those two as far away from anything remotely "mutant like". I'd guess "derived from experiments intended to duplicate the powers of The Red Skull and Captain America". What's more if Chris Evans retires for real and they wind up having someone else pick up Cap's shield that would give them a back door way of doing storylines involving the serum/super soldier research from World War II. Cap's background plays into a number of plotlines that were set up with his origins which are close to the comics (albeit with more gradual "secret reveals" of what was really going on, how much serum there was, what happened with former experiments, etc...) in a way that wouldn't likely work if they brought in Falcon or Bucky to take the mantle as some people are expecting to happen if Chris does retire. Honestly though I think he won't and it's either hype for a temporary change (using behind the scenes "fact" to sell something in the movies) or him trying to leverage more money from the studios especially given the amounts of money Robert Downy Jr. is getting (which is supposed to be a problem with most of the people involved in these movies). With "Agent Carter" planned I imagine they also have a vested interest in keeping at least some other characters in both the TV show and movies tied to past experiments as well.
That is a pretty sizable and interesting piece of information, but I still believe they are going to go the inhuman path.Therumancer said:
For starters, those TSR guides can be handed-out as what if, non canon, or just ancient interpretations (like the time when Asgardians were literal gods, not aliens mistaken as such), and given that most characters have reverted from the "they are like mutants but don't realize it" theory for most of their career, I think FOX would have a tougher time trying to enforce it on a court than other scenarios. Not to mention that it would open the door to FOX fighting off not only Marvel for the Avengers, but Sony for Spiderman.
I also think this inhuman line allows the movies to divert from the comics but still maintain their own continuity. After all, both mutants and inhumans were created to explain how some people got their powers without dealing with origin stories, while at the same time, introduce more and more characters; and Marvel has already expressed that they want to stop making origin movies. That "inhuman" buzzword basically gives them a shortcut for the movies in phase 3. Don't want to explain much about Luke Cage? Inhuman. Don't want to make an origin story for Doctor Strange? Inhuman. I don't think that is a great idea (personally, I think the origin story of Doctor Strange is the best thing the character has), but it would ease the life of many directors and screenwriters that have to create new properties without spending 2/3rd of the movie explaining how they got their powers. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch being labeled inhumans (or, as Von Strucker calls them: "miracles") allows Marvel to give them ties to the Krees (and, by extension, to Guardians of the Galaxy) and to the upcoming movies about Captain Marvel and the Inhumans.
Yeah, we see Mack at the very end stumbling around with his eyes clear, so he's p much alive, and thank god cause I <3 him.
I also loved Trip, and BJ Britt had chemistry with everyone on this show, but he is a main cast member for another series. He had to go eventually, and he went out like a champ (dying as a unexpected result of saving everyone is so much more interesting than a character choosing to die to save everyone). And I'd rather take the emotional pain of his death over the character leaving for no real reason just because Britt has to bounce.
Otherwise I really liked the episode, but I totally get if people who aren't big Marvel fans don't care for it.
I also loved Trip, and BJ Britt had chemistry with everyone on this show, but he is a main cast member for another series. He had to go eventually, and he went out like a champ (dying as a unexpected result of saving everyone is so much more interesting than a character choosing to die to save everyone). And I'd rather take the emotional pain of his death over the character leaving for no real reason just because Britt has to bounce.
Otherwise I really liked the episode, but I totally get if people who aren't big Marvel fans don't care for it.