Gothic - You Are Not Special
- Thread starter Fanghawk
- Start date
Oh yeah, this game was so good when it got released. Shame it's not as well known as it deserves, perharps because Morrowind came out a year later. Whenever I think of action-RPGs, I think of the Gothic franchise. Stats are cool and all, but damn you could ace this game if you knew your way around the combat mechanics. Fencing with NPCs was my favourite. Non-lethal duels were a great idea, and smacking folks into the mud fit well into the whole penal colony atmosphere.
If you enjoyed this one, you should have a great time with the sequel, it's generally considered the best of the Gothic games. I think they're both absolutely wonderful. Just be prepared if you're playing the sequel with the expansion installed: it makes the game a GREAT deal more difficult. That was Piranha Bytes' reaction to criticism by the fans that the sequel was too easy, they released an expansion to kick everybody's ass. You may even want to play the sequel without the expansion first, as strange as that sounds, and then replay it with the expansion afterwards. It really is brutal, far more brutal than the first game in fact, and you were correct in stating that this is already a pretty unforgiving experience. I just thought you deserved a sufficient warning.
And Gothic 3 is, in my opinion, a total piece of crap. And then the first Risen was a lot better, 2 was atrocious, and 3 was pretty mediocre. I find it a bit insane that in all the years since Gothic 2, Piranha Bytes hasn't been able to release a game that was better than their first two in a lot of ways.
Hmmm...now I feel like replaying the first game...
And Gothic 3 is, in my opinion, a total piece of crap. And then the first Risen was a lot better, 2 was atrocious, and 3 was pretty mediocre. I find it a bit insane that in all the years since Gothic 2, Piranha Bytes hasn't been able to release a game that was better than their first two in a lot of ways.
Hmmm...now I feel like replaying the first game...
Yeah, Gothic 1 is fantastic, and Gothic II managed to be the rare kind of sequel that improves on an already excellent game.Fat_Hippo said:
In Gothic 3 the developers really overextended themselves. The world is just so freaking huge and there are so many quests that there was no more time to polish the gameplay. So unfortunately it's true that the combat and balancing has suffered and is probably the worst of the series. But after installing the latest community patches, I found it to be a great, epic experience, if you can suffer through the somewhat frustrating combat. Also the world is masterfully created and great for exploration.
Risen 1 was like back to the roots. More like Gothic 1 and 2. I guess not quite as good, but still worth playing. I just finished Risen 2 a while ago and it was probably the weakest game of them all, but a good game in its own right. Also, the pirate theme is quite unique and there is not anything else quite like it.
Now I'm taking a break of PB games to dive into Risen 3 at some point.
Yeah, non-lethal duels is one of the things I like most about Gothic games. It's great so smack somebody up to show'em who's boss, without outright killing them. Strange that this feature hasn't found its way into other games.Imre Csete said:
And its also oh-so-satisfying to finish somebody off that has pissed you off for the last time, with a finisher move.
Didn't read anything about the frustrating combat. You press a key to swing your sword and it either doesn't recognise it, swings too late. I could handle Gothic II which was the first I played but going back to 1 was too much.
Piranha Bytes still has the best worlds of any open RPG. The Gothic and Risen series are satisfying and fun to explore, which I can't say for many open games.
Piranha Bytes still has the best worlds of any open RPG. The Gothic and Risen series are satisfying and fun to explore, which I can't say for many open games.
Pick the collection of them all up a while back but never got around to playing it. Anyone got an opinion on ArcaniaA, the the supposed 4th in the series?
One thing I'm surprised he didn't bring up was how as your skills went up in combat related stuff your character would actually improve his technique. It literally wasn't just "you get +5% damage", your character would actually adopt a better stance, make faster and more efficacious swings, and generally start resembling a fighter more than a farmer trying to figure out which end is sharp.Imre Csete said:
Also nonlethal duels with literally everyone not wearing nice armor was how I funded my early game, but like he said everyone pisses you off, lies to you, and tries to screw you over. Which leads me to another handy thing: you could only non-lethal plot central characters, and the moment they weren't necessary, they lost that protection. There were what, 4, characters still unkillable at the end of the game (Diego, Lester, Xardas, and the one guy from the New Camp), out of what started as a pretty large cast.
Also, orcs can take falling damage, and are just as bad at not falling off very tall cliffs as you are. This is a good way to get some orc weapons to sell early on. I mean, they're better than early game weapons, but they are shit for the strength requirement they have.
Another neat thing, talking about survival, is that mobs don't respawn over time, new mobs are only added at the start of each chapter. Which means that you can clear a path somewhere and it will probably be clear for the rest of the chapter (barring something else nearby wandering a short distance).
Also, armor maters in a way that it just doesn't in other games. Armor has a severe effect on how much damage weapons do, both to you and your enemies. You only get armor upgrades by moving higher in the ranks in one of the camps (or the end game armor which gets supplied by Xardas).
One last thing: You actually are special. You just don't realize it, and only one character the entire game does, and that one keeps it close to his chest. The truth comes out later in the series. Everyone in Gothic is an asshole acting in their own best interest.
So glad to see Gothic getting some recognition - it's still one of my all-time favourite RPGs.
The world is smaller than many of its contemporaries, but so much richer. The controls are terrible to a newcomer, but once you've gotten over the initial hurdle, combat is surprisingly intuitive when it comes to blocking, parrying and side-swiping. We've all killed a million orcs, but your first orc in Gothic is pretty much guaranteed to wipe the floor with you so hard you'll savour the achievement of killing a simple scout.
There's some Chosen One/divine favour elements in the sequels, but they're not what you think and they don't mean what they usually do, which goes for a nice change. Gothic 2 makes the controls more approachable but Gothic 3 simplified them a bit too much, for my tastes.
The smaller area and tighter writing means you get some nice touches you didn't get elsewhere at the time - like fully-voiced characters from start to finish, from the lowliest mine scrub to the major players and the "hero" himself. Sure there's only a handful of voice-actors, which leads to some overlap, but they're used carefully enough to avoid having two dudes with the same voice talking to each other. The smaller world also means that any time something significant happens, it happens in a place where you've already spent a lot of time - and are thus more invested in.
Fantasy staple creatures kick your ass for the most part: orcs are like raging gorillas; skeletons are fast and zombies are nigh-on indestructible; golems will send you flying if you're lucky and one-shot you if you're not; a single ghost is usually more trouble than it's worth; the few trolls you'll find are more like giants than the fuzzy apes you'll find in TES; and don't even get me started on the Death Knights...
On top of that you have new creatures either unique to the world or with much more impact than you're used to - wolves will be your first real problem, the humble meat-bug has a small but significant role and don't even think about going near that Shadow Beast until you're well-equipped. Then of course there's the iconic Scavenger. Nothing special, but the simple sight of one reminds you you're on Khorinis (the G3 trailer hit me right in the nostalgia-feels).
Not the easiest game to get into, and certainly not the most fair, but very much worth the investment and one of relatively few games I've actually bothered playing through on every side. The three camps' stories all diverge and merge at one stage or another, but they also encourage different play-styles and offer their own rewards (also, follow-up to the spoiler in the article: the recipient for your letter only defects under certain circumstances, usually when you've advanced far enough with the New Camp that the game thinks you'll join them instead of the Old Camp).
Most surprising though is the little touches and the immersion they bring - the satisfaction of forging swords from scratch and making a little money on the side; sharing a drink or a joint with your camp-mates; stirring a pot of soup while you cook it; even just taking time out to sit around the camp fire and play the guitar.
Far from perfect, but I love it.
Also, who didn't love Chromanin...
The world is smaller than many of its contemporaries, but so much richer. The controls are terrible to a newcomer, but once you've gotten over the initial hurdle, combat is surprisingly intuitive when it comes to blocking, parrying and side-swiping. We've all killed a million orcs, but your first orc in Gothic is pretty much guaranteed to wipe the floor with you so hard you'll savour the achievement of killing a simple scout.
There's some Chosen One/divine favour elements in the sequels, but they're not what you think and they don't mean what they usually do, which goes for a nice change. Gothic 2 makes the controls more approachable but Gothic 3 simplified them a bit too much, for my tastes.
The smaller area and tighter writing means you get some nice touches you didn't get elsewhere at the time - like fully-voiced characters from start to finish, from the lowliest mine scrub to the major players and the "hero" himself. Sure there's only a handful of voice-actors, which leads to some overlap, but they're used carefully enough to avoid having two dudes with the same voice talking to each other. The smaller world also means that any time something significant happens, it happens in a place where you've already spent a lot of time - and are thus more invested in.
Fantasy staple creatures kick your ass for the most part: orcs are like raging gorillas; skeletons are fast and zombies are nigh-on indestructible; golems will send you flying if you're lucky and one-shot you if you're not; a single ghost is usually more trouble than it's worth; the few trolls you'll find are more like giants than the fuzzy apes you'll find in TES; and don't even get me started on the Death Knights...
On top of that you have new creatures either unique to the world or with much more impact than you're used to - wolves will be your first real problem, the humble meat-bug has a small but significant role and don't even think about going near that Shadow Beast until you're well-equipped. Then of course there's the iconic Scavenger. Nothing special, but the simple sight of one reminds you you're on Khorinis (the G3 trailer hit me right in the nostalgia-feels).
Not the easiest game to get into, and certainly not the most fair, but very much worth the investment and one of relatively few games I've actually bothered playing through on every side. The three camps' stories all diverge and merge at one stage or another, but they also encourage different play-styles and offer their own rewards (also, follow-up to the spoiler in the article: the recipient for your letter only defects under certain circumstances, usually when you've advanced far enough with the New Camp that the game thinks you'll join them instead of the Old Camp).
Most surprising though is the little touches and the immersion they bring - the satisfaction of forging swords from scratch and making a little money on the side; sharing a drink or a joint with your camp-mates; stirring a pot of soup while you cook it; even just taking time out to sit around the camp fire and play the guitar.
Far from perfect, but I love it.
Also, who didn't love Chromanin...
Do you want the sort of official German opinion about it?MacabreHeart said:
There is no Gothic 4.
There is no Arcania.
There doesn't even exist an expansion for Gothic 3.
The Gothic series ended after Gothic 3 the main game and nothing came after it.
I'm serious ask any gamer in Germany and you will get this answer.
Yeah, spamming side swiping after you got to master was hillariously broken. And once I mastered acrobatics I never walked, ever. It made 24/7 bunny jumping people in MMOs look pretty normal in comparison.Schadrach said:
I played "Gothic 4" Arcania, and you won't miss a thing by skipping it. It's an entirely different game, linear and heavily action oriented. The first half of the game is merely "OK", and it is evident that development was rushed in the second half of the game, because there is practically no more plot or NPCs anymore, just bashing monsters. Overall, its a mediocre game in the best moments, and just plain bad in the worst. With all the great games we have these days, not really worth spending time with something like Arcania.MacabreHeart said:
Never played the game in English, but the German VA was very enjoyable.
One funny anecdote is that the world's rough tone isn't entirely due to the prison setting. The following games are no longer in such a setting, yet retain the tone. When I asked them during the fan-demonstration of Risen 2 why the tone was so very different from your standard fantasy game, I got a few strange looks in return. The chief devs themselves of PB talk quite a bit like that, rough and openly. Makes them appear very down to earth.
The game itself was great back then and the second part improved on it organically. If you can work with the controls, which are very weird, it's an experience worth having. You can see pretty much everything in one go, but for most people it'll have a reasonably large replay value.
The third game is a curious case. The world is FAR larger, but feels a bit empty. Playing it when it went on sale was a huge mistake, considering that it suffered from lots of issues.
Risen was a very decent game, though it had awkward graphics and camera angles. Risen 2 suffered from a lot everything and I have yet to play Risen 3.
Huh? What are you saying? An Add-on to Gothic 3? There was no add-on to Gothic 3 and certainly no part 4!!!!! (With a friendly wave at Dornedas)
captcha: Good Luck.
Well, captcha is right. You'll need luck in this game.
One funny anecdote is that the world's rough tone isn't entirely due to the prison setting. The following games are no longer in such a setting, yet retain the tone. When I asked them during the fan-demonstration of Risen 2 why the tone was so very different from your standard fantasy game, I got a few strange looks in return. The chief devs themselves of PB talk quite a bit like that, rough and openly. Makes them appear very down to earth.
The game itself was great back then and the second part improved on it organically. If you can work with the controls, which are very weird, it's an experience worth having. You can see pretty much everything in one go, but for most people it'll have a reasonably large replay value.
The third game is a curious case. The world is FAR larger, but feels a bit empty. Playing it when it went on sale was a huge mistake, considering that it suffered from lots of issues.
Risen was a very decent game, though it had awkward graphics and camera angles. Risen 2 suffered from a lot everything and I have yet to play Risen 3.
Huh? What are you saying? An Add-on to Gothic 3? There was no add-on to Gothic 3 and certainly no part 4!!!!! (With a friendly wave at Dornedas)
captcha: Good Luck.
Well, captcha is right. You'll need luck in this game.
Gothic and Gothic 2 are amazing games, because they follow their own rules. They are unapologetically harder in the beginning than they are in the end, so your quest for power feels like it has meaning, and isn't just thrown in there to keep you playing. The world is tiny, but it's jam packed with stuff to find and explore, and because it's so small it become familiar to you in ways that other games don't manage. The biggest thing I love about Gothic is the power level though, because the most powerful enemies in the game are orcs and trolls. Having a 7 foot tall orc warrior swinging a man sized axe at you means something in Gothic. Orcs aren't just a noob enemy, they are scary as hell, and being strong enough to fight one as a human means you are a major badass. There are a few trolls in hidden places in the game, and you often have to recruit some friends to even take them on.
I actually didn't care about Gothic 2 too much because it lacks the defining aspect that made Gothic 1 great as mentioned in the article: you being no one special.Fat_Hippo said:
That was the best part of the first game for me. The second did improve much in many areas, but the story (except the last part) just didn't click with me.
If you can, also play this game with the German voice-overs, they're a million times better than the English ones.
Yeah, I prefered the story in Gothic 1 far more as well. The whole "prison colony" thing was awesome, and being given almost a bit of "chosen one" status in the second game was lame. But at least people didn't realize you were trying to save everyone, so they still treated you like shit. BRING IT PEOPLE I NEED YOUR ABUSE!Fdzzaigl said:
And being a native German speaker, of course I played them in German! It really adds a lot of atmosphere. Especially the copious German swearing.
This is so true. But I also love that a lot of these hurdles can be overcome with sufficient mastery of the combat system, as clunky as it may seem when you first start playing. With the right tactic, even a troll can be defeated alone without losing a single hitpoint...it just takes awhile. Pretty satisfying to solo trolls early on in Gothic 2.Aetrion said:
This was a game I always suspected I'd have enjoyed and after reading the article am quite reassured that would have been the case.
I really wish I'd have played it back on or around the release for the full effect.
Now I've been spoiled by modern graphics and conveniences woven into the newer games that most old games just don't seem to gel with me.
Another game that slipped by but I wish I'd played in a similar vein was arx fatalis.
Very interesting article.
I really wish I'd have played it back on or around the release for the full effect.
Now I've been spoiled by modern graphics and conveniences woven into the newer games that most old games just don't seem to gel with me.
Another game that slipped by but I wish I'd played in a similar vein was arx fatalis.
Very interesting article.
