Risen - A Manhunt for Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Marter
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It never occured to me romans would waste precious resources to look after a ghost of some guy, while being in a foreign "protectorate" on the verge of civil war.
Even more so since they are all polytheists, and while the possibility of divine intervention is still in the realm of their plausibility, it would be highly dubious for them to happen in some far away country, in a tribe of wild savages with weird EDs and a blood fetish (aka judeans), and not in Italy with a true Jupiter believer.
But from a christian prespective, I guess it has to make sense. After all, jesus is central to christians, so he must be as central to any other cultures of that time, no matter how alien or meaningless it should appear to their thought-system.
Even more so since they are all polytheists, and while the possibility of divine intervention is still in the realm of their plausibility, it would be highly dubious for them to happen in some far away country, in a tribe of wild savages with weird EDs and a blood fetish (aka judeans), and not in Italy with a true Jupiter believer.
But from a christian prespective, I guess it has to make sense. After all, jesus is central to christians, so he must be as central to any other cultures of that time, no matter how alien or meaningless it should appear to their thought-system.
I haven't seen this yet, but I might just to see how they messed it up. From the sound of things, it falters because of the detective angle, when it should have been more about the personal conversion of Clavius from sceptic to (perhaps uneasy) believer. A personal story (without preachy overbearance) would have been more interesting than a "Manhunt for The Christ."
Well, the Jews did ask Pilate for guards for his tomb (of a man who they had very uniquely demanded dead and released an insurrectionist to get him killed instead) for a few days to stop the disciples from robbing the tomb - and they got them. And they utterly failed at their job, which would cause a mild stir among the Romans - probably enough that someone got sent to find out what happened.mtarzaim02 said:
Also, your historical context is... off. Extremely off.
But it's OK. Patronizing speculation without knowing the source material is very en vogue nowadays.
OT: Was a bit interested, but it's getting lukewarm reception. Ah well, maybe next time.
For an objective, and non-biased review, this is about as glowing a recommendation for any faith based movie in recent history.Marter said:
And it will still do well for a film of it's type. Sad fact anyone reading the escapist review for it was not going to go to it anyway. Let be honest the escapist is not the type to see this when deadpools out.
09philj said:
Looking at this again after having seen the movie, I can't help but think to a moment of the movie that comes off as particularly interesting in context - how, in the midst of his investigation, Clavius makes a point of giving a Roman-style prayer not to Mars - the normal Roman god he prays to - but to the Jewish god as if he's just another one of the gang basically trying to make a deal with him along the lines of 'hey, help me out here to do this job and I'll get you a sweet spot as part of the Roman Pantheon' (that is to say getting temples made and games played in his name).
If I remember correctly, it was a common view in "europe" (or what was considered as europe at that time) to view the different pantheons as real divinities within their own spheres of influence. Barbarians from the north, when going in Italy, made their prayers to the roman gods, considering they were on their turf. And they shouldn't anger the local boss without paying him some respects. Because, we can't be sure, right?Space Jawa said:
We could guess romans were doing the same, and therefore adressed their prayers to yahweh or Rah, depending of their location.
If we consider this story really happened (which is far from obvious, especially if you take into account the earthquake and the angel on the rock, or just the magical ability of Pilate to speak both roman and nazarean). Yet, "israel" was just a little province of a big empire, and that kind of local issues were common amongst an empire where gods were expected to walk freely. Even roman leaders were boasting about their divine ascendance or their supernatural friends.
Please elaborate.
I'm no historian, but romans don't raze a whole city without good reason (or big hatred). Especially a holy temple.
Never a good thing to anger a god, no matter how small his kingdom is.
The Romans went out their way not to offend the population of Israel to the extent of of even furling legionary standards and the King Herod Antipas was a close friend of the imperial family and Herod Agrippa played a part in the succession of the Emperor Claudius. However the ruling class of of the client kingdom of Israel where increasingly hellenised (followers of Greek culture) and gap existed between them and the ordinary man in the street. This provoked a fundamentalist reaction against foreign culture coupled with economic crisis caused by war with Persia and excessive imperial spending causing high tax burdens. This lead to a revolt against Roman rule and the killing of the governor. A full scale roman military response was then put into action. The Roman general in command, Vespasian, initially tried to negotiate. The death of the Emperor Nero lead him to the use the destruction of Jerusalem and its loot as a way to the imperial throne. The victory and the wealth secured Vespasian the imperial throne. The Coliseum in Rome was built by Jewish slaves and paid for by the looting of Israel. Even then Vespasian's son, Titus, who was in command tried to negotiate the surrender of the temple. One of the Jewish factions, known as the Zealots, were holed up in the Temple and refused all negotiations leading to the assault by the legions. This was the first of 3 attempted revolts against Roman rulemtarzaim02 said:
Noah was pretty good. I just wish they turned it up and made it even more ridiculous with the rock transformers vs barbarians.008Zulu said:
So:albino boo said:
- Israelis considered romans as filthy pagans trying to destroy their oh-so-great-covenant
- Romans considered israelis as fanatic crazies ready to kill and to die in the name of a god unable to protect them from invaders despite their claims about its grandeur and almighty powers
How is it extremely off from my initial sentence?
I still don't think Pilate would waste a letter to make a detective comes all from Italy, just for another local rumor, even to please religious zealots. Especially since the same zealots would have nothing to gain if the rumors about resurrection were proven true, or just by an official running a manhunt after a deceased.
In their position, asking to guard the tomb was already counter-productive. Let the disciples play all they want with a dead corpse, it will just make them appear impier to the general opinion, and decrease any momentum they had in their blasphemish claims.
That's why I say all this story is shoddy. Nobody in it acts like any of them should.
Notice it isn't the first time Mediterranean influence tried to hellenize the country. Antiochus 4 tried this too, a few centuries earlier, with the same results. But Rome had no choice: you cannot keep an empire as a whole without converting the majority of its people to some of your core values/culture.
The zealots where only one small faction that used unhappiness with an insane emperor and his corrupt governor to their own advantage. The out of touch ruling class where using a tax strike to gain attention and the governor and his military escort respond. However the governor had no military experience and walked into trap set by the zealots. The Roman army was camped outside the walls of Jerusalem conducting a siege while inside various factions fought for control of the city. The contemporary Rabbinic view of the Zealots was hostile. So trying to say that the Zealots represented the entire population is like saying the klu klux klan represent all Americans. It's worth remembering that during the reign of Nero that was a native revolt in Britain. The Roman governor of the whats now Northern France rebelled also rebelled against Neros taxes, ultimately overthrowing Nero. In the last 8 years of Nero's reign there were 3 major revolts all having the root cause of Nero's tax demands.mtarzaim02 said: