Update: Overwatch Game Director Thinks Bastion is "A Little Too Powerful"

[Steven Bogos]

Update: Overwatch Game Director Thinks Bastion is "A Little Too Powerful"

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Overwatch Game Director Jeff Kaplan also commented on the difference between "perceived meta" and "actual meta".

Update: Well that was fast. The Bastion nerf is now live, and reduces the damage reduction Bastion receives from his Ironclad passive from 35% to 20%.

Original Story: The latest Overwatch patch brought some substantial buffs to Bastion [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/169415-Next-Overwatch-PTR-Update-Bringing-Buffs-to-Bastion#&gid=gallery_6884&pid=1], and a lot of players are not happy about it. In Quick Play and competitive, not only has Bastion joined the meta, but he dominates it, particularly when defending on control point maps. Even Overwatch's game director Jeff Kaplan thinks the little robot that could is a little too strong right now, and a new patch on the PTR has nerfed him a bit.

"Over the past few nights I've played with, as and against Bastion. My perception is that he is a little too powerful right now," he wrote in a forum post [https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753425533?page=2#post-36]. "In particular, in one match I was playing Bastion and the enemy Tracer was trying to hunt me down. The Tracer player was clearly a better player than I am -- a very skilled individual. I relied heavily on my self-heal and the Tracer could not finish me off."

The PTR patch that just went live this morning has reduced Bastion's Ironclad passive (which reduces damage taken while in turret form) from 35% to 20%. This should make him a little bit more vulnerable, and allow flankers like Tracer and Reaper to actually be able to take him down.

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Kaplan also talked a little about the actual "meta" versus what people perceive as the meta. "The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments," he explained. "One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the '3 tank meta' when 'Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers', Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play."

What are your thoughts on the current Overwatch meta? Personally, I think it's still much too tank heavy, and while changes to Mercy have made her more viable, I'd still rather have a Lucio, Ana or even Zenyatta over her.

Source: Battle.net [https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753425533?page=2#post-36]

Permalink

 

[SmugFrog]

I almost bought Overwatch when I played the beta because it felt so balanced. I loved it - and people complained about Bastion then, but there were ways around him. The thing I loved so much about Overwatch is it encouraged good teamwork to overcome the enemy team's strategy - and it felt like a game of rock, paper, scissors in the way that offense and defense could change at any time. I ended up not buying the game due to it being an online only game (my internet was pretty bad at the time) and I wouldn't have much time to play.

I still sometimes want to get the game, especially when it went on sale - but the changes they're making is the same way they treated WoW. They wildly changes to the formula, nerfing and buffing and are never completely happy with what they have based on player feedback. There's always going to be a player that receives a lot of criticism, but I believe Overwatch, in beta, was so finely tuned it was a beautiful thing. I see you haven't changed Activision Blizzard.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

You mean that all the PTR testers, including the pros, saying that he was was too powerful on the forums and videos showing him tanking ults without dropping below 200HP wasn't enough to make you think that he was a little bit too powerful? What's the point in having a PTR if you're not going to listen to the testers?

 

[Avnger]

You mean that all the PTR testers, including the pros, saying that he was was too powerful on the forums and videos showing him tanking ults without dropping below 200HP wasn't enough to make you think that he was a little bit too powerful? What's the point in having a PTR if you're not going to listen to the testers?

Blizzard runs their PTRs purely for game-breaking bugs. They don't care about any other type of feedback before pushing the patch to live.

 

[animeprime]

My goodness Mr. Holmes, this area is completely void of fecal matter!


I played for a couple of months after release but eventually quite because 1, I am a scrub who can't really aim and 2. I kept dying within two seconds of being attacked because I didn't have time to react. Most of the time it was because of a Bastion. When is all the salt going to finally rust you away!

 

[RJ 17]

So basically Bastion is to Overwatch what Aatrox is to LoL: a character they made because it was a neat concept, but once implemented they became a nightmare to balance as no matter what you do to them they're either absurdly too strong or they just get dumped on all day long.

Wonder when Blizzard will do what Rito did and just throw their hands up and say "Fuck it, we screwed up with this one", leave Bastion in Worthless Tier, and never touch him again. :^)

 

[sagitel]

So basically Bastion is to Overwatch what Aatrox is to LoL: a character they made because it was a neat concept, but once implemented they became a nightmare to balance as no matter what you do to them they're either absurdly too strong or they just get dumped on all day long.

Wonder when Blizzard will do what Rito did and just throw their hands up and say "Fuck it, we screwed up with this one", leave Bastion in Worthless Tier, and never touch him again. :^)

Remember kassadin? Kogmaw? Irelia? Riot is really bad with balancing concepts

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

You mean that all the PTR testers, including the pros, saying that he was was too powerful on the forums and videos showing him tanking ults without dropping below 200HP wasn't enough to make you think that he was a little bit too powerful? What's the point in having a PTR if you're not going to listen to the testers?

Blizzard runs their PTRs purely for game-breaking bugs. They don't care about any other type of feedback before pushing the patch to live.

Because apparently they don't want to pay for a QA team, like a proper developer.

Then we don't find all of the bugs a QA team would, because we have no incentive to play on the PTR, and the patch releases are buggy anyway.

It's like Blizzard lives in some Bizarro world where they think that the community is better at squashing bugs than finding the most broken team compositions and heroes.

So basically Bastion is to Overwatch what Aatrox is to LoL: a character they made because it was a neat concept, but once implemented they became a nightmare to balance as no matter what you do to them they're either absurdly too strong or they just get dumped on all day long.

Wonder when Blizzard will do what Rito did and just throw their hands up and say "Fuck it, we screwed up with this one", leave Bastion in Worthless Tier, and never touch him again. :^)

Remember kassadin? Kogmaw? Irelia? Riot is really bad with balancing concepts

At least they make balance changes on their public test server. I can think of...two times Blizzard has made a change to what they originally put up before it was pushed to live servers, despite overwhelming evidence from the playerbase. There was the change to Mercy's damage boost beam, and one other change that I don't recall.

Anyway, point is, what you see in the PTR patch notes on the first day is typically what you'll see on the live servers. That isn't the case with League of Legends' notes, unless something has changed since I quit playing.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Kaplan also talked a little about the actual "meta" versus what people perceive as the meta. "The perceived meta is largely driven off of the professional scene and what gets played in tournaments," he explained. "One thing that I found interesting was that there was a perception based on those reports and in the community that Mercy is never played. Yet according to our stats back during the '3 tank meta' when 'Lucio and Ana were the only viable healers', Mercy was the 5th most played hero OVERALL -- and yes, I am talking about in Competitive Play, not Quick Play."

Well of course Mercy's popular. Just look at her...

There's also the issue of PC vs. console versions, particularly in regards to controls. I play the PS4 version, and in my experience Support players tend to prefer Mercy and Lucio over Ana (even though she's apparently the "meta" healer on PC) on account of the increased difficulty curve when using a controller to aim instead of mouse and keyboard.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

2 things Overwatch has needed since the jump.

1. Make Bastion's Turret form weaker (either by adding a TF2 Heavy Style charge up to his chaingun, making his chaingun weaker)

2. Make D.Va's crit hitbox not the size of Giants Stadium (Mobility Tank or not, that shit is too big)
Another suggestion for D.Va would be to maybe make her be able to move a bit more while shooting.

 

[(whitty name here)]

I almost bought Overwatch when I played the beta because it felt so balanced. I loved it - and people complained about Bastion then, but there were ways around him. The thing I loved so much about Overwatch is it encouraged good teamwork to overcome the enemy team's strategy - and it felt like a game of rock, paper, scissors in the way that offense and defense could change at any time. I ended up not buying the game due to it being an online only game (my internet was pretty bad at the time) and I wouldn't have much time to play.

I still sometimes want to get the game, especially when it went on sale - but the changes they're making is the same way they treated WoW. They wildly changes to the formula, nerfing and buffing and are never completely happy with what they have based on player feedback. There's always going to be a player that receives a lot of criticism, but I believe Overwatch, in beta, was so finely tuned it was a beautiful thing. I see you haven't changed Activision Blizzard.

Beta was when Zenyatta wasn't allowed to be played because he had 150 HP and Widowmaker could oneshot him. Beta was when McCree was THE best offense because he could combo down any character that wasn't D.Va with flashbang>Fan>Roll>Flashbang. D.Va was widely considered the worst tank because she did low damage and had extremely long downtime on her defensive cooldowns. Beta was when Symmetra was only good on point A defense and you basically HAD to switch off of her if that ever changed.

Overwatch Beta was not some special happy place where everything was perfect. The state of the game where it is now allows for pretty much every character to be played (At least from what I've seen at platinum/diamond) at a reasonably successful level is much more healthy than beta ever was.

 

[IceForce]

I'm just glad that Tracer's bomb now kills him again. It was so stupid how one of the main counters to an entrenched Bastion suddenly stopped working.

 

[Lightspeaker]

There's also the issue of PC vs. console versions, particularly in regards to controls. I play the PS4 version, and in my experience Support players tend to prefer Mercy and Lucio over Ana (even though she's apparently the "meta" healer on PC) on account of the increased difficulty curve when using a controller to aim instead of mouse and keyboard.

For some context for myself before I make comments: I play exclusively with people who are high-plat/low-dia in comp on PC only. And I play almost exclusively tank in comp except for very occasionally when I'll have to pick up a support (which I hate doing, because I don't have the experience with them). But when I play QP I'm matched with everything from high diamonds down to high silvers or so.

Anyway, Ana aiming is a problem on PC too...simply because many people can't aim even with a mouse. The other three healers are more reliable in that respect unless someone is very confident of their aim (which is less of a problem in my comp games but painfully apparent in QP). However if you CAN aim then Ana's kit is far, far better than Mercy's. Her grenade makes her healing output much better AND provides an invaluable source of healing denial on opponents, especially for self-healers. The sleep dart is a hugely powerful utility item that can disrupt a team's cohesion, shut down an ultimate or get Ana herself out of a pinch. And despite being aimable she can heal from much further away. And her ultimate is one of the best line-breakers in the game. Stick it on an ulting Genji or an angry Reinhardt and you can wipe an entire team.

Her only disadvantages are the constant direct line of sight and aiming required for healing and her lack of mobility. Compared to that Mercy's kit doesn't really match up.

But then it comes down to the question of reliability of heal. So it depends on the player. But for a decently skilled player Ana has the edge.

At least all of that's how I feel about Ana vs Mercy on my team.

 

[SmugFrog]

Beta was when Zenyatta wasn't allowed to be played...Beta was when McCree was THE best offense...D.Va was widely considered the worst tank...Symmetra was only good on point A defense and you basically HAD to switch off of her if that ever changed.

My experiences with the beta are very different from yours, and your statements seem to be the same general complaints that were going around at the time similar to "Bastion was overpowered". Everyone had complaints about everything! It was a rock/paper/scissors where if what you were doing wasn't working, you needed to switch it up or rely on teamwork to overcome. Though I (or you?) couldn't get the hang of some of those characters to truly make them work, it doesn't mean others didn't. I saw plenty of Zenyatta and was frustrated that I couldn't use him for anything.

McCree, while an annoyance to me, was really only deadly with his special ability and he had to ambush me with it.

Symmetra was one of my main characters. I could own with her, so much - and I haven't played since but the guy with the big energy shield or bastion in turret mode were an easy kill for me. Sure, if I didn't have good support to defend my teleport or help with my turrets, my plan wasn't going to work. However, there are plenty of times when I know that I made the defense work (either at the first point or last point) because of certain setups that had to be frustrating for the enemy team.

D.Va was also one of my main characters. It took a bit for me to really a good tactic with her, but I developed a great hit and run technique - and she might not have worked well as a tank, but the ability to draws enemy fire and flank and destroy, then retreat even if my mech got destroyed... well it was good times.

I saw someone own the game with just about every character, and many of those characters (even the ones that should've been easy) I couldn't develop a good strategy with. The characters I thought I would be using the most I ended up not being good with - and others that I held off on even trying, like Lucio, I found I could make a major contribution to my team.

I'm not saying the beta was perfect, but Blizzard always does this. They'll do it again too - they'll eventually nerf Bastion, possibly to the point no one wants to play him as they can't find a happy middle.