some people will say that the kid was going to far with the 11 stab wounds. Those people have probably never been bullied. It's easy to go from self defense to, when in a position of power, venting your hate upon someone you hated. The bully had it coming. Some scum don't deserve to live. We already have enough people on this planet as it is.
15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It
- Thread starter AndyFromMonday
- Start date
Well probably when your pushed to the point that as a kid you want to stab someone to defend yourself adrenaline and all thats going. Probably for the same reason a ref has to seperate fighters in MMA and Boxing even after its clear one is down, because in the heat of the moment you don't realize it.Drop_D-Bombshell said:
because a bat doesn't fit in your pocket, and generally speaking they probably wouldn't let you into school or on the bus carrying a visible bludgeoning object like a bat.
I am kinda in agreement on this line, I think that he probably should be given some psychiatric evaluation to make darn sure he reacted reasonably and is recovering from the trauma of the event and won't repeat his actions unprovoked.
On the other hand, I've always wondered about the family / parents of hardcore bullies. Like these people were outraged this kid didn't get convicted of murder, but were they doing anything to stop the emotional and physical damage / abuse this kid was dishing out day after day? What if the kid in the story had killed himself rather then the bully, how would the bullies family have reacted then?
I'm legitimately curious because I've kinda always believed bullies would have to come from bad family lives or something to allow them to be so cruel and heartless.
I was bullied as a teenager, and I can tell you that if I stabbed one of my persecutors just one time, I'd probably follow it up about 10 more times for good measure.Drop_D-Bombshell said:
I'm sure it was very cathartic for him. And the douche who was bullying him got what was coming to him. Yeah it sucks for his family, but it's his fault.
Your not thinking about how many times is the "correct" amount of time to hit someone when your releasing months of pent up anger onto the cause of your problems. Though not as extreme, when I was around 8 or 9 there was a bully who would always harass me with a group of other kids and I'll admit, they always made me cry. One day I just said, "Screw this" and went outside found him and beat the S*** out of him. He moved away, problem solved. I wasn't thinking about how much I was hitting him but I'll admit I did fight off a strong urge to grab a nearby rock...and now that I think about it I purposely tackled him into the grass instead of a close pile of rocks....ok maybe he could've aimed for the arm or something. Then again I was always a rational person.AndyFromMonday said:
I agree with you in theory, but one stab wound isn't necessarily hard to come back from. In the words of Mass Effect 2's Zaeed Massani, "rage is a hell of an anesthetic."Drop_D-Bombshell said:
When I was stabbed in the leg by a mugger, I punched him out, then limped home to clean my wound with vodka, stop the bleeding and lie down.
Ever seen a war movie where the rookie soldier keeps attacking a long dead enemy? That happens in real life too, when the events are so traumatizing that they lose all control of what is going on and what they are doing.Drop_D-Bombshell said:
Now I'm not excusing what he did, just providing some background info.
Anyway, do I think he should get off scott-free? No, but there is obviously some psychological damage due to the number of times he stabbed the bully. He needs help more than punishment but to just get away with it completely is also not helpful
Well, nobody likes looking at their fuck ups. Especially when you've fucked up arguably the most important thing you've ever done. Better to pretend it's fine and dandy.paranoia.precinct said:
Or, you could just get your shit together the moment the pregnancy test turns positive. Parents these days...
This is probably the most heartening piece of news I have read in months.AndyFromMonday said:
It genuinely frustrates me that society cares so much about what is and isn't an appropriate response to someone else violating your rights, your property, or your personage. Is stabbing a bully the right response? Probably not. But if the bully had simply refrained from repeatedly assaulting a fellow human, he would have remained unperforated. Is shooting someone who breaks into your house to steal goods an 'appropriate' response? I don't really care. Just don't try to steal things that don't belong to you in the first place. You don't accidentally bully someone, or rape someone, or murder someone.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Frankly, I'm absolutely fine with open season being declared on those who violate social contract at a fundamental level.
To be frank, TestECull is looking a lot more mature and intelligent than you in this thread.Vegosiux said:
Also he was clearly in the right here. The kid who was bullying him had this shit coming.AndyFromMonday said:
He should be prosecuted for having a knife with him, whether or not the actual killing was self defence.
If this was a kid who had gotten screwed over by bullies for a long time -- and not just "he called me fat," but ones that were genuinely threatening him with physical violence, I can completely understand why he would carry a weapon. The problem with that is, though, that you can't point a weapon at someone and not use it. It's like if you have a gun -- for one, you should respect that weapon enough to keep it stowed. If you point it at someone, you must be willing to use it. For another, the moment that weapon is out, either you have to use it, or the other guy is going to take it, and suddenly you're incredibly screwed. Even if the guy was just going to mess you up before, he might be so pissed off or unthinking that he kills you with what you had for defense.
For those who say "11 times is a lot," I echo everyone else who says it isn't. But we've heard the "arms move fast" argument -- here's the other. Adrenaline makes you not think. The idea is that if a big predator is coming, and you have to fight, you're going to do it based on gross motor skills and instincts. Average Joe has no ability to really control what he's doing once the fight is on. He can choose to not fight (not an option for this kid, clearly, because he tried and failed), he can choose to curl up in a ball once the fight starts (a terrible plan if someone is clearly intent on threatening your life), or you can do Something. What Something is, is determined mostly by your animal instincts and your subconscious, because you're going to do whatever comes to muscle memory first. Depending on who you are, it might be a punch; it might be picking up a big stick and swinging; it might be martial arts. If you have a knife, and it's in your hand, you're going to use it, and you're not going to stop using it until the threat is gone, and odds are you're not going to even remember what you really did in that span of time. People have been shot or stabbed and end up blocks away from where the fight happened, only to suddenly realize consciously that they were running away at top speed and have been going for a while and, oh wait, I'm bleeding all over myself from a big knife wound in my leg, this kind of sucks, maybe I should call 911 before I fall over and die on the sidewalk.
Also, being stabbed, while it sucks a lot, is not going to stop someone unless it's to somewhere major. Sure, he stabbed the guy in the gut, but it was a pocketknife, those are fairly small, and the angles might not have been deep. If you just cut a guy's muscle, unless you sever something mostly or completely, the guy is just going to get pissed. If you take out an artery or something, then it gets serious. As I was always taught, you fight until the guy is done. The point at which he's no threat is the point at which you quit. This doesn't usually mean "dead" -- most of the time it means "unconscious" or "in too much pain to fight" or "fleeing" or something. But if the only option for this kid was to keep going, if they were grappling close or something, then it might have been that at some point, stabbing him 12 times was what it really took to win.
In short, the kid did exactly what nature told him to, and he had a lot of odds stacked against him, and once he was in the fight (that he didn't start), what he did in his defensive panic might not even have been under his conscious control.
If a guy wants your money, you give him your money. If a guy wants your life, you take him out. I can't say I give the kid props for actually killing the guy, but I do give him props for defending himself, and I also don't think he should be tried as a murderer. Manslaughter, okay, I can see that. And I certainly think he should be encouraged (or even instructed) to receive psychiatric help for his issues related to the bullying, and also to the fact that *he just killed a person.* But he didn't just walk in there trying to pick a fight so he could kill a guy.
For those who say "11 times is a lot," I echo everyone else who says it isn't. But we've heard the "arms move fast" argument -- here's the other. Adrenaline makes you not think. The idea is that if a big predator is coming, and you have to fight, you're going to do it based on gross motor skills and instincts. Average Joe has no ability to really control what he's doing once the fight is on. He can choose to not fight (not an option for this kid, clearly, because he tried and failed), he can choose to curl up in a ball once the fight starts (a terrible plan if someone is clearly intent on threatening your life), or you can do Something. What Something is, is determined mostly by your animal instincts and your subconscious, because you're going to do whatever comes to muscle memory first. Depending on who you are, it might be a punch; it might be picking up a big stick and swinging; it might be martial arts. If you have a knife, and it's in your hand, you're going to use it, and you're not going to stop using it until the threat is gone, and odds are you're not going to even remember what you really did in that span of time. People have been shot or stabbed and end up blocks away from where the fight happened, only to suddenly realize consciously that they were running away at top speed and have been going for a while and, oh wait, I'm bleeding all over myself from a big knife wound in my leg, this kind of sucks, maybe I should call 911 before I fall over and die on the sidewalk.
Also, being stabbed, while it sucks a lot, is not going to stop someone unless it's to somewhere major. Sure, he stabbed the guy in the gut, but it was a pocketknife, those are fairly small, and the angles might not have been deep. If you just cut a guy's muscle, unless you sever something mostly or completely, the guy is just going to get pissed. If you take out an artery or something, then it gets serious. As I was always taught, you fight until the guy is done. The point at which he's no threat is the point at which you quit. This doesn't usually mean "dead" -- most of the time it means "unconscious" or "in too much pain to fight" or "fleeing" or something. But if the only option for this kid was to keep going, if they were grappling close or something, then it might have been that at some point, stabbing him 12 times was what it really took to win.
In short, the kid did exactly what nature told him to, and he had a lot of odds stacked against him, and once he was in the fight (that he didn't start), what he did in his defensive panic might not even have been under his conscious control.
If a guy wants your money, you give him your money. If a guy wants your life, you take him out. I can't say I give the kid props for actually killing the guy, but I do give him props for defending himself, and I also don't think he should be tried as a murderer. Manslaughter, okay, I can see that. And I certainly think he should be encouraged (or even instructed) to receive psychiatric help for his issues related to the bullying, and also to the fact that *he just killed a person.* But he didn't just walk in there trying to pick a fight so he could kill a guy.
Sounds like Dylan was a real ****, but the kid shouldn't have let it get to the point where he was having to carry a knife around. On the other hand, if you drive someone to that point then I'd say there's a case to be made, especially if he did try and get away once, and the guy was going to beat the shit out of him. You have to take into account not just the bullying, but knowing that he has killed someone - something which is most likely going to weigh heavily over him, in spite of hating the guy.
I'm not a fan of REVEEEEENGGGGAAAAA! based 'punishment' or an eye-for-an-eye attitude, but I can't really see the verdict you would give on this.
I guess he should receive some sort of punishment for having the knife on him; that's what leans it uncomfortably into the REVENGA! zone.
I'm not a fan of REVEEEEENGGGGAAAAA! based 'punishment' or an eye-for-an-eye attitude, but I can't really see the verdict you would give on this.
I guess he should receive some sort of punishment for having the knife on him; that's what leans it uncomfortably into the REVENGA! zone.
I have no sympathies for a person who willfully psychologically and/or physically abuses another person.
I think that the self defense was perfectly alright... Even if he did go a bit overboard while carrying it out.
There is a lot of psychological matters we have to acknowledge, and I don't think anyone can go through them all. But for the bully to get into his head and mentally torture him that much that the victim had to conceal a knife in preparation for his imminent beating, somethings quite wrong... If the bully caused that much fear and trauma in the victim to even consider that, i'm pretty fucking sure he had a reason to want to protect himself to the extent he did...
I wouldn't say the bully got what he deserved, he got what was coming to him. It sounds from the story that the victim was really toyed around with by the bully, so what was he supposed to do? Sit down and take the violent beatings for another few years? No, he defended himself the only way he could... He couldn't fight back with his fists, so he used a weapon.
And don't say that he should of told an adult... Come on... That maybe worked with little squabbles on the playground when you were 7, but a full blown bullying routine? When has that ever fucking worked? If anything, it would of made everything a whole lot worse. The only thing that could stop the bully was a taste of his own medicine, too bad the victim couldn't give him his own medicine, so he applied a stronger dosage. I feel no sympathy for the bully at all, nor respect.
There is a lot of psychological matters we have to acknowledge, and I don't think anyone can go through them all. But for the bully to get into his head and mentally torture him that much that the victim had to conceal a knife in preparation for his imminent beating, somethings quite wrong... If the bully caused that much fear and trauma in the victim to even consider that, i'm pretty fucking sure he had a reason to want to protect himself to the extent he did...
I wouldn't say the bully got what he deserved, he got what was coming to him. It sounds from the story that the victim was really toyed around with by the bully, so what was he supposed to do? Sit down and take the violent beatings for another few years? No, he defended himself the only way he could... He couldn't fight back with his fists, so he used a weapon.
And don't say that he should of told an adult... Come on... That maybe worked with little squabbles on the playground when you were 7, but a full blown bullying routine? When has that ever fucking worked? If anything, it would of made everything a whole lot worse. The only thing that could stop the bully was a taste of his own medicine, too bad the victim couldn't give him his own medicine, so he applied a stronger dosage. I feel no sympathy for the bully at all, nor respect.