15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[Iron Criterion]

Stabbing someone eleven times is not self defence unless your attacker is the Terminator. That being said, the bully got what was coming to him and the world shouldn't weep for him.

 

[Soggy Toast]

All I have to say is that we don't know what the bully did to him. Perhaps he did deserve to get stabbed, as a lot of Internet vigilantes think it's okay to do that as long as they're bullies. If we had seen it from the victim's point of view, we probably would have thought that he deserved it.

 

[FarleShadow]

It's all the same. Knife, gun, you take the most effective thing you have access to in order to protect yourself. That's pretty basic. What's the difference between being dead because of a blade and being dead because of a bullet?
Also, I'm not talking about murder, here. If you can't make the distinction between straight-out murder and killing in self-defense, then I wonder who you're calling a psychopath.
People like that bully have it coming and I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

Wow your justifications are sounding more pathetic by the post, so every kid should be packing heat to 'protect themselves'?

Also, you ARE talking about murder, I CAN make a distinction between murder and self-defense, as can most of the legal system, self-defense is the accidental death of an attacker while the defendant attempts to protect themselves from harm.
MURDER is where, from the outset, the defendant equips themselves with a weapon, then when supposedly 'justified', straight out stabs a guy 11 times.

If 'people that bully others' is high on your list, by christ, you need to re-examine your priorities.

 

[Westaway]

All this demonstrates to me is something that i've said for a while.

For all our technology, our stone houses, our ipods, our wireless internet and whatever else we may consider civilised, we have not changed in two thousand years.

We are still the humans who fought and died over Octavian's desire for vengeance against his adopted father.

We are still the humans who sacked Lindifarne, killed monks and raped women, making names for ourselves in history.

We are still the humans who toiled the fields, broke our backs and calloused our hands as serfs to higher masters who were little different from us in many manners.

We are still the humans who ran from the wolves and the lions and let our friends fall so we might survive.

We are still the humans who kissed our child on the forhead before leaving out on a fishing ship that might well be scuppered in a storm, leaving us at the bottom of the sea.

This story wouldn't be out of place in any point in history. Someone is cruel, they are stabbed. What of the ages involved? Fourteen is an age of hormones and growing up. The same hormones that have been going round our system and drove us to hunt, to fight for whatever reason and to kill for the smallest things.

Argue over right and wrong all you want, but put simply, who was wrong? The bully was committing acts they knew caused harm. They knew the consequences of their actions on the person, but were concieted and complacent in the thought that the victim was powerless. Eleven times being stabbed was not out of fear or misguided action, it was out of hatred and a want for vengeance in its purest form.

I'm not going to put a point out about who was right and wrong, because as soon as I read the title of this thread I knew that there would be a large argument going on anyway. That's my two cents up there, just remember, you're little different from the man who chased down, killed, skinned and ate boar thousands of years ago bar your clothes, your house and your tools.

We've been arouned for more than 2000 years. I think comparing us to our ape ancestors would be more meaningful. Unless you're Christian, in which case those words have been said forever, that we never change. Hell, I think Call of Duty says that, so it's far from litterary.

 

[natster43]

Good for him. The bully got what was coming. I do feel that was a bit excessive though.

 

[Westaway]

[/quote]

HA! America! Kiddies are now stabbing each other before school. With no adult fucking supervision to stop them? What the fuck?

I'm sure you're been quoted like 50 times now, but I can't resist.
Why the hell would they have been supervised? You can't have a adult everywhere a kid is. They need some liberties. You can't seriously expect every single american child to be supervised 24 hours a day.

I derped. I misread it thinking it happened in a bus. Not realizing the word "stop"

Fair enough. Sorry, I should have been less rude about it in the first place.

 

[Random Fella]

Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony.

Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.

It was indeed self defense, but 11 times in the chest isn't just defending yourself to be honest, truly I think he should still have been sentanced for a low sentence murder. Since stabbing someone 11 times isn't really manslaughter at all, he definitely intended to kill this boy by the reading, unless of course he had some mental illness that caused him to spas out or something and go overdrive with the stabbing, but I feel personally he should have still been sentenced for murder, but at minimum time. That way you aren't sending out the message to kid's that a way to resolve issues with a bully is to kill him, as the victims mother explained. Weather you like it or not the kid that stabbed the bully is still the offender, just because of how the killing took place.

 

[galaktar]

He killed someone who had no right to life. Therefore, he is not guilty of murder or any crime at all.

 

[knhirt]

Wow your justifications are sounding more pathetic by the post, so every kid should be packing heat to 'protect themselves'?

Also, you ARE talking about murder, I CAN make a distinction between murder and self-defense, as can most of the legal system, self-defense is the accidental death of an attacker while the defendant attempts to protect themselves from harm.
MURDER is where, from the outset, the defendant equips themselves with a weapon, then when supposedly 'justified', straight out stabs a guy 11 times.

If 'people that bully others' is high on your list, by christ, you need to re-examine your priorities.

You're getting fired up. Sorry that I don't share your views, but please contain your fury.
Your strawman is ridiculous. I never implied that "every kid should be packing heat".

You're framing the situation greatly in favor of your opinion. Let's frame it like this and see where the sympathy lies:
The defendant is tormented regularly by a group of intimidating guys. When he is forced to attend a fight (in which he would almost certainly be beaten within an inch of his life), he desperately brings a knife with him to fend off his attackers. Not wishing to take part in any violence, he actually gets out of his bus early, only to be pursued by his tormentors. When he is assaulted by their leader, he brings out his knife and lunges out several times. Two of his desperate strikes, made when under extreme stress and surrounded by goons, prove fatal to the person that had dealt both physical and psychological harm upon him multiple times.

See, that seems closer to the truth than your simplified retelling.
Also, my priorities? I'm not sure I ever mentioned where I place my priorities in life. Good try, though. You make it sound like I'm on some sort of a crusade against bullies, placing their death above anything else in my life. Like I said before: What a joke.

 

[Sentox6]

EDIT: I spoke out of reasoning, this kid should be hanged or shot or stabbed. He is a fucking hazard to the development of a civilized world, and as it seems LOTS of the Escapist thinks that this isn't murder. IT IS, One argument seems to be that adrenaline cause 11 stabbings, well this kid was being bullied he wasn't strong enough to push through human flesh with a knife fast enough to regret his choices. If I were his parents I would go to the late-abortion clinic immediately.

Surely you must be trolling to try and incite a reaction. I'm going to choose to believe that just so I don't have to think about someone as disturbed as you living in the same world as me.

Basically, if you had your way, the bullies (the people who started this whole incident by tormenting and assaulting another human) would be alive and the victim would be dead.

That's just... so utterly messed up. I have no words, really.

FINAL NOTE: All you desk-chair-referees seem to have jumped to the conclusion that each and every one of the 11 stab wounds were mortal/incapacitating punctures delivered to the torso. You should take a second to realize that in the course of an autopsy (when the stab wounds are counted) that even a minor laceration on the arms or legs will count as a "stab wound", as such even defensive wounds incurred when the "victim" makes contact with the blade rather than a wound received via the "assailant" purposely trying to stab the "victim".

More people ITT need to read this.

Furthermore, it seems a lot of people really don't understand (or care to understand) that being violently assaulted is really not quite the same thing as sitting at your computer chair. If you really all think you could calmly measure out the appropriate amount of force to protect yourself after someone just chased you down and punched you in the back of the head... you're insane.

 

[Zyr]

I'll say up front, I haven't read the whole thread, but have some thoughts anyway.

Western culture seems so caught up with punishment. Should the bully have been killed? Of course not, it's a terrible thing. But sending this kid to prison (or juvenile detention, or whatever) is not the right thing to do.

Punishment tends to appeal to people's sense of justice, but the whole idea of the criminal system is ultimately to prevent crime, to make the world a nicer place to live. Either by deterring people from committing crimes for fear of punishment, or removing criminals who are likely to re-offend from society, as well as offering reparations to the victims if possible.

The current criminal systems is seriously screwed up, but this is triumph of sensibility. Punishing this kid would not prevent any further crimes, it's not going to do anything for the victim or his family. This kid needs therapy, not to make sure he's not going to re-offend, but to make sure he's ok. I'm sure the whole ordeal has been traumatic.

 

[galaktar]

I need to clarify my earlier post. He killed someone who, through his own actions, abdicated his right to life. Therefore he his not guilty of murder or any crime at all.

If your right to defend yourself requires the permission of the state, then it isn't a right at all.

 

[Leoforce]

"And if you couldn't?"

Then I'd probably break down and cry like a wuss. And the authorities would take over from there.

And step one would be to scrape your beaten, unconcious, half-dead ass off the floor. Step two would be to do fuck all beyond that, and the bully will show up in your hospital room a week later to finish the job.


Sorry, but no self-respecting person is going to roll over and let some asshole come in and beat the living hell out of them.


What Jorge did was a bit extreme, yes. But I can tell you from first-hand experience that A: Bullies don't listen to reason, and B: Knock them around a bit and they back right the fuck off. I never had to stab anyone but I did have to sock someone in the head once. Had no choice, they cornered me in a bathroom. I gave just one of the three a swift right and all three of them ran the fuck away. They decided it wasn't worth it anymore, and they never fucked with me again.


IF you're dead-serious about just wussing out, then all I have to say to you is: Grow a pair. There's a time and a place for standing your ground, and when you're cornered by a bully that's a pretty good time and place for it.

Amen to that. I grew up in a Zero Tolerance school district, so you so much a point while the beat you down you get thrown In School suspension with them. It was only after dealing with my bullies physically that they backed off.

 

[Little2Raph]

I call this "reaping the whirlwind". Sure, stabbing someone 11 times may be wrong, but if you bully and oppress and treat someone like shit for long enough then sooner or later they are going to snap and do something extreme.

 

[FarleShadow]

Wow your justifications are sounding more pathetic by the post, so every kid should be packing heat to 'protect themselves'?

Also, you ARE talking about murder, I CAN make a distinction between murder and self-defense, as can most of the legal system, self-defense is the accidental death of an attacker while the defendant attempts to protect themselves from harm.
MURDER is where, from the outset, the defendant equips themselves with a weapon, then when supposedly 'justified', straight out stabs a guy 11 times.

If 'people that bully others' is high on your list, by christ, you need to re-examine your priorities.

You're getting fired up. Sorry that I don't share your views, but please contain your fury.
Your strawman is ridiculous. I never implied that "every kid should be packing heat".

You're framing the situation greatly in favor of your opinion. Let's frame it like this and see where the sympathy lies:
The defendant is tormented regularly by a group of intimidating guys. When he is forced to attend a fight (in which he would almost certainly be beaten within an inch of his life), he desperately brings a knife with him to fend off his attackers. Not wishing to take part in any violence, he actually gets out of his bus early, only to be pursued by his tormentors. When he is assaulted by their leader, he brings out his knife and lunges out several times. Two of his desperate strikes, made when under extreme stress and surrounded by goons, prove fatal to the person that had dealt both physical and psychological harm upon him multiple times.

See, that seems closer to the truth than your simplified retelling.
Also, my priorities? I'm not sure I ever mentioned where I place my priorities in life. Good try, though. You make it sound like I'm on some sort of a crusade against bullies, placing their death above anything else in my life. Like I said before: What a joke.

I don't get 'fired up' because people don't share my views.

Your view is that every 'bullying' must ultimately lead to a 'fatal confrontation' where the protagonist must face a gang of bullies that does want to kill him, gang is offensive, hero is defensive, leader attacks, hero pulls his trusty dagger under the stress of it and slays the evil-doer!

I love a story that features an underdog, but seriously? [author insertion] defeats his childhood bully [McAttacker] and totally justifies [extermination of personal bully]

 

[Tommeh Brownleh]

I have no problem with this. Kid put a stop to continued harassment in a technically legal way.

 

[UnusualStranger]

Alright, I'm sure this has gotten out of hand by this point, lets show a bit of factual realization.

1. At 14 years old, being chased down by a bully, and knowing that he is totally bent on beating the absolute hell out of me, I know that I would not be able to stop at "Just one stab". Second he is right up next to me trying to cave my face in, he is getting the knife repeatedly.

2. The kid TRIED to get away. As in, he knew that the bully was going to try and beat the hell out of there SEVEN stops before he was even meant to get off. AND STILL got punched in the back of the head. At this point it is quite clear that the boy isn't "Getting away will stabbing", he is defending himself against someone who was going to enjoy being the hell out of him.

3. Sucks for the bully who died, but guess what? When you run after someone and try to beat the hell out of them, you can't really complain when they pull out a gun and shoot you. You are ACTIVELY trying to cause them violence, and they have every right to defend themselves.

All the other stuff that I am sure is going on in this thread isn't relevant to my interests in the slightest. Sure there are lots of "What if...." and "Well he could have..." things going on, but it really doesn't mean a damn, because in that situation in that mindset I totally agree with what was done, and I agree with the court case, and the prosecution not willing to follow any more on this either.

This situation turned out for the best that it is, and I will stand by that.