15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

BrassButtons

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Blablahb said:
He made the decision to carry a lethal weapon with the intent of using it against someone. There's your calm planning of the later murder that makes it pre-meditated.
He intended to use it against someone if they attacked him first (we know he didn't intend to be the instigator, because he actively tried to avoid the fight, both before and after being assaulted). So it was pre-meditated, yes, but it was pre-meditated self-defense.

Rottweiler said:
I live in Alaska.
What part?
 

odanhammer

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Oct 11, 2009
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As someone who was bullied by older kids when i was much younger. I feel this justice is 100% correct.
Recall going to teachers , the principal , the police. The teachers would do nothing as it was a matter for the pruncipal , which would do nothing as the events always took place after school hours or off school property, the police would do nothing without the prinicpal doing anything first.
In the end the only thing that stopped it was me finally snapping and nearly killing the kid. Punishment was nothing , however no one talked to me for the next 5 years unless they had too.

Self-defense does have to take a major point here. The kid showed many times he had no interest in fighting. Was given a knife to protect his life since a smarter kid realised this fight was going to happen no matter what.

If put in the choice between letting some douch bag beat the crap out of you over and over , or protecting your self , what would your choice be? Eventually everyone stands up and says no i will not accept this anymore.
 

sketch_zeppelin

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Its sad that things have gotten so bad with bullying that a judge is cool with a kid killing another kid. I don't blame the kid being bullied. He's trapped in an educational system that is unable to protect him from thugs. If the schools are suppose to be places where you go to learn but more and more often they just feel like prisons.

Think about it. if you tell on another student your a rat and most of the time the school won't do anything until after violance has occured. The judge clearly understands this based on her decision not to prosecute. I do feel a bit bad that a boy was killed but not really for the bully himself. I also think that Saavedra should have to under go some form of thearapy to make sure he recovers from this event. Somthing to make sure that he doesn't turn into somthing worse than the bully he defended himself against.
 

SaunaKalja

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I'm unable to muster any kind of sympathy for the dead bully. Many bullies do deserve a stab or two, this one got 11. Lets see how many the next one gets.
 

Lovely Mixture

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Blablahb said:
He made the decision to carry a lethal weapon with the intent of using it against someone. There's your calm planning of the later murder that makes it pre-meditated.
Blablahb said:
As for taking offense: bite me. I don't subscribe to the ideas of pro-violence, weapon use and legalised murder, period.
It's been established that he tried to get away. My point is that bringing something to defend yourself does not mean you plan to murder someone.

I live in the city, so I take a small knife with me just-in-case. Does that mean I plan to kill someone on the way to grocery store? That's what you seem to imply
 

MaxwellEdison

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Hm. When you put it "Bully stabbed eleven times", it sounds bad for the stabber.
When you realize that bully here means "Someone who had previously assaulted another child multiple times", it starts to sound a bit more like a case.

Should he get off? Yes. Legally, he is in the clear, and most likely would have been even without going to such an extent to avoid the fight in the first place.

Morally, I doubt he brought the knife as anything other than a last resort. His actions tell me that, if anything, he was resigned to the fact that the conflict was going to come to a head. The 11 stabbings I'm willing to write off as a result heat of passion.

It's terrible that someone died. Hard to forget his actions, though. (Coming from someone who's a bit annoyed by the recent anti-bully crusade) Perhaps he shouldn't have tortured a schoolmate.
 

Sylveria

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AndyFromMonday said:
Prosecutors will not be appealing the case, a move that upset Dylan Nunos family and friends.
Screw these people. They raised a sadistic bastard and the guy got what was coming to him. Also, you people who are all "Well 12 times was too much," sicken me. The kid was afraid for his life, it's called panic, and when you panic you don't calculate where your hits are gonna land or how many you did. You hippies would let this kid get beat to death by the bully then say the bully needs counseling, not the public-execution he deserves.

I whole-heartedly praise this kid and Florida for having a law that allowed him to defend himself. Honestly, I wish this happened more often. Far too many innocent kids are killed or nearly killed by bullies every year and the bullies often get away with murder. The adults don't wanna deal with it, its up to the victims to protect themselves.

Jorge Saavedra, you sir, deserve a medal.
 

LilithSlave

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You'll have to forgive me, and while it doesn't necessarily make it excusable, as someone who has seen some pretty nasty bullying in my life(luckily it didn't happen to me), both physical and verbal/emotional, sometimes even sexual, I have to sympathize at least a little bit not knowing the exact circumstances.

Bullying can lead one to be very emotional. And it wouldn't surprise me to see someone in a crying fit stabbed someone 10 times without realizing it. Bullying can lead to complete fits of rage and sadness that are hard to control. Bullying isn't some small innocent thing. It's a big problem in our society. It's not someone saying something bad about you from time to time. It's a systemic oppression of sorts. Constant verbal belittling and isolation. Any physical abuse that can be got away with. One that adds up over time and really does one over on your mind. And sometimes it even leads to sexual molestation. Sexual harassment of the most disturbing kind for a poor kid's mind do happen plenty in bullying alongside physical harm and verbal abuse. On a constant basis. And as we've seen thousands of times before, sometimes, bullies just push kids too far with the physical, verbal, and sexual abuse, and they snap.

And you can definitely blame them. But at the same time it's easy to understand how this happens. There's just only so far a kid can be pushed. I'm feeling pretty sympathetic to the kid and I don't think I would charge them, either. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to stab someone multiple times.
 

Sylveria

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Blablahb said:
Lovely Mixture said:
Ignoring the other shakier parts of your post. I take offense to this one, bringing a knife does not instantly equate to pre-meditated murder.
He made the decision to carry a lethal weapon with the intent of using it against someone. There's your calm planning of the later murder that makes it pre-meditated.

As for taking offense: bite me. I don't subscribe to the ideas of pro-violence, weapon use and legalised murder, period.
MorganL4 said:
Because the number of people on this planet capable of keeping a clear head when they are being assaulted is quite small.
Not true, it's something that's taught, not born in. It's something I learned during various training that kicks in during such situations. Kickboxing, krav maga, security guard certification, various situations I was involved in in when I was still a kid and later on professionally.

That's exactly why weapon possesion and use must at all times be forbidden. The worst possible combination is people with lethal weapons but without the sense to use them. And like you pointed out correctly: very few people have that sense. Perhaps even none at all have it.
Since you're a certified security guard, I assume you carry a baton, mace, possibly a taser, or maybe even a gun? Going by your logic of "weapon = pre-med murder" I make that same accusation of you. You are a murderer, your victim just hasn't presented themselves yet. Eventually, someone will attack you, or you will attack them, and you will kill them. In fact, as you are trained in martial arts, you do not require a weapon. Your body should be considered an implement of murder by your logic, as you, yourself, are a weapon.

For someone who's not pro-violence, you certainly went out of your way to be proficient at it, even going into a career field that may be required to be violent. Rather interesting conflict of character. No, you sound more like someone who doesn't want your victims having a means of defending themselves from an imminent threat.
 

MASTACHIEFPWN

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Mar 27, 2010
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GrandmaFunk said:
joe-h2o said:
I have no sympathy for the dead kid. It'll certainly teach him not to do that again, and that there are often unexpected consequences to being a bully.
wow, did you seriously just write that?
I'm detecting a hint of irony, I highly doubt the guy was serious. If he was, he's an idiot.
A really big one.
 

Jdb

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May 26, 2010
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I think these stories are relevant. They're about people who died from punches to the head.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/collins-119374-dies-fort.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/06/main20077324.shtml
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/03/14/man-dies-after-being-punched-on-south-side.html

There are really people calling this excessive? What? Do they believe every person has some sort of special operations level of composure under deadly threat or something? I don't buy it, and I never will. The best thing to do is not start a fight in the first place.
 

ToxinArrow

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Jun 13, 2009
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ITT: people who think it's better to get the shit beaten out of you to death/near-death than it is to defend oneself.


Absolutely disgusting.
 

Arizona Kyle

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Drop_D-Bombshell said:
AndyFromMonday said:
Drop_D-Bombshell said:
I have mixed emotions on this story.

Firstly i believe that the kid had a right to defend himself, every kid does, but was stabbing him 11 times necessary. I'm sure once would have been enough.

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something? It doesn't make sense why he would carry a knife as stab as many times as he did.

Should he get away with it? No, but he shouldn't be prosecuted as a murderer, maybe given a less harsh punishment. Seems only fair.
Knives are usually easier to get a hold of and conceal. When people start harassing you it's hard to control you rage which is why I believe the guy ended up stabbing the bully 11 times. I agree with the judge's ruling by the way, he might have had a choice but honestly, prosecuting a teenager that is clearly mentally disturbed from years of being bullied on the counts of manslaughter is not the right thing to do.
Ok, yeah, pushed to the limit is totally understandable, similar to that Australian kid, but rage making him stab 11 times is still pushing it a little. I agree with you that he shouldn't be prosecuted, but the whole stabbing thing was not needed, once or twice, yeah ok, but not that many stabs, even while enraged.
Little Zangrif? I love that guy
 

AssassinFisH

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Jun 12, 2011
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A bully deserves everything they get. Its called Karma. You cause one person enough misery, and they will inevitably snap.
 

TKretts3

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I do agree that a right to self-defence is necessary, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the kid was carrying a knife, to/in/from school none the less. It also doesn't excuse that he stabbed the other kid ELEVEN times.

Showing the knife to scare the kid? Yeah, that's good; all psychological, no physical damage. Threatening him to stay back? Yeah, go ahead, all psychological again. Hitting him once or twice after he attacks you? That IS physical self-defence. But stabbing him a total of ELEVEN times? That's just completely ridiculous and excessive. Self-defence is one thing but this is something else. The kid should have AT LEAST been charged with manslaughter.

Also in the article it says:
News Article said:
"legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force."
Is that really how it works in America?