Crotchety Old Gamers, Unite!

Sean Sands

Optimistic Cynic
Sep 14, 2006
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Crotchety Old Gamers, Unite!

Sean Sands is old and cranky. He's also a devoted PC gamer. This is not a coincidence.

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PedroSteckecilo

Mexican Fugitive
Feb 7, 2008
6,732
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Who are you kids! Stop bothering me! Get off my lawn! Don't make me call the police!

In all seriousness, I'm not really an Old Fashioned PC gamer, I only ever played The Black Isle RPG's and a few FPS's and RTS's, my parents were never really willing to upgrade the machine fast enough to keep up with trends and my first real "gaming" computer was acquired in between eras and rapidly became obselete.

I'm an old fashioned console gamer from the SNES and Playstation 1 era, despite doing most of my gaming in the PS2 era... but I'm still crochety and cranky gawdemmit!
 

xitel

Assume That I Hate You.
Aug 13, 2008
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Does it count if you aren't old, but grew up on old games? I mean, I was playing the original Tetris and Doom when I was a kid on MS-DOS, and I grew up on a Gateway using Windows 95, so I still count myself as an old gamer, even though I'm not old.
 

darrinwright

New member
Oct 1, 2008
329
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I remember back when you could count the number of bits your game had on two hands... those were the days, when our controllers had five buttons or less, when licensed games sucked but it was OK because Spider-Man is awesome, and when game magazines were all about exclamation points at the end of every sentence!!!!!

The SNES is still the greatest system ever, by the way. Replaced my 360 five times. Still got the same SNES, which has been dropped, unintentionally frozen, had a can of coke poured into it, and more, and it still works.

My lawn. Get off it.
 

Blank__

New member
Oct 9, 2008
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WC + MoO. I love you, Sean Sands.

Also, thanks for giving Mount & Blade more props it deserves!
 

FistsOfTinsel

New member
Jun 23, 2008
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As a 42 year old, Apple II era gamer, I haven't had much of a problem adapting to the console age. I'd probably be better playing FPS games with a mouse, but I'm not sure that everyone else would as well - leaving me just as pwned in online matches.

At the risk of re-hashing a topic that has been beaten to death a million forums over, I'd like to talk a bit about the "Fallout 3 is a shadow of its former self." It certainly isn't a shadow; it's much deeper in some ways, and shallower in others, but I don't believe this has anything to do with the fact that it was implemented on a console. Oblivion was a PC-first (and PC-centric) game, and F3 isn't substantially different from it in terms of depth. For me, the biggest perceived negatives were:

1. Dialogue trees went from being a "chose the wrong response and sections of the plot are closed to you" to "choose from the list of stuff to get the NPC to dump out some info". I can understand how story-centric gamers would see this as a huge negative, but I actually preferred it. The game already takes an extraordinarily long time to play (I'm 60 hours in and maybe halfway through the main quest) - I don't want to miss interesting content because I made some odd dialogue choice.

2. The main quest is pretty linear, and can be accomplished by following HUD reticules, compared to the original one that was more exploratory. But it's not like the first game's quest was hard, and it was basically linear anyway. There was never any uncertainty as what you needed to do next. This is another "streamlining" aspect that is a product of modern game design, not console design. "The Witcher" is seen as old-school and somewhat hardcore, but with its quest logging, it's pretty much the same; you can cruise through the game following waypoints.

3. The biggest issue for me, in terms of challenge, was the way the now allow you access all your inventory, including stimpacks, without any action point hit. This certainly has made combat easy (although combat was never hard in the original games anyway). I'm not sure why they did this. The original game did allow you to do tons of stuff in the inventory screen, but you at least had to pay some action points to get there; it's pretty absurd that you can change your armor, heal yourself completely, and don different stat-boosters with no downtime in the new game. I don't have a big problem with the real-time/turn based mixed mode combat, but I don't see why they made this change.

4. The fact that they use a limited form of auto-balancing to match the enemy difficulty is something I wish they hadn't done. The main casuality of this decision is that there isn't much feeling of fear when encountering some unbeatable badass, or accomplishment when defeating it. Again, I understand the reasons for this (streamlining, like in #1 and #2), but with a game like F3, with so much content, I don't see why they couldn't make certain areas just too threatening at early skill levels so that you were forced to wait until later. With so much to do, there isn't a risk of hitting a dead end (which is the goal of all this streamlining). I miss the fear of running from the big badasses and then coming back later to exact revenge. But this also isn't a console thing; the quintessential console game, the platformer, is based on the idea of uncrossable fire pits & such that can only be unlocked once you unlock or level p some power later in the game. And what could be more console like that "World of Goo"?

What's the point of this long ramble? The issue that consoles have killed the PC-style game is a myth; it's gaming that has moved on, or matured. Even CivRev; as a 42 year old father, when am I going to find the opportunity to carve out 6 hours to play a 4+ person game of Civ 4, let alone organize the group to meet up again if we're not able to finish the game in that time? People demand high-content games, but they get pissy when they make concessions to appeal to a wide range of players. Well, no shit - nobody's going to waste tens of millions of dollars to create a game that sold in the volumes of the original Fallout or Planescape games. If you want depth and avante-garde stuff, you're going to have to settle for low-fi stuff like Dwarf Fortress.
 

uppitycracker

New member
Oct 9, 2008
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hah i remember installing tie fighter on my windows 3.1 or w/e it was. i was a kid back then, sure, fairly young and all that, but man. i jsut recently started PC gaming again, after leaving it behind for my 360. how i missed thee, PC gaming!
 

Robyrt

New member
Aug 1, 2008
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Mouse and keyboard has its magic, true. I just wish it would hurry up and come to my Xbox 360 like all the other games have. I got off the PC treadmill, not because I didn't like the games anymore, but because I didn't like the hardware costs, the troubleshooting, and the overly complex game design.
 

General Crespin

The Lord of Ruin
Jul 15, 2008
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Welcome back to the party, Mr. Sands. Is someone else finally recognizing that just because PC games don't get the press... or the money... of their console brethren, that doesn't mean PC gaming is 'dying'?

For me, though, it's more a case that the PC has more strategy and tactics oriented empire/nation-building games that I love to play. I love me some TF2, but nothing matches building up my army in Empire Earth and decimating an enemy city.
 

vede

New member
Dec 4, 2007
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I'm a fifteen-year-old gamer, but most of my favorite games are from the days of DOS and floppies. So, would it be okay if I called myself an "old gamer," despite my age?

Please?

Hell, one of my "Best Games in the Universe" was ROGUE, with its totally sweet ASCII 'curses' display. I mean, in more advanced versions, you had colors and lines for projectile or magical attacks, but often you just inferred what was going on from the buttons you pressed. What do we have now? Lighting and particle effects, eh? Dayum...
 

Combined

New member
Sep 13, 2008
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Ah, I still remember many of the old days. When "Tetris" was considered the pinnacle of gaming evolution, squares were abundant and real RPG games were made of text.

I may only be 22 years old, but after the Fall of the Soviet Union, the only games I have played were old, pixel-filled, but with good gameplay and stories.

Heck, I loved them all. From the simplest text-based game, to the most difficult, most interesting and visually stunning games.

Now, the "Era of the Console" is lurking just behind me. Waiting. Ready. One day it shall strike. And there is no chance of survival.
 

Quintin Stone

New member
Aug 11, 2006
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Sean's so old his social security number is 1!

BigBoote66 said:
If you want depth and avante-garde stuff, you're going to have to settle for low-fi stuff like Dwarf Fortress.
We've been trying to get him to play DF, but I don't think he's taken the bait yet.
 

johnman

New member
Oct 14, 2008
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Im only 16 yey conider myslef an avid pc gamer. I hate consoles i just hate them and hate what they have done to pc gaming.
Far cry 2 is a prime exmaple, so obvious its been cut back on the make it more console friendly, you cant even lean for christs sake!
Stalker and Crysis are prime examples of why pc gaming is better than consoles
The entire keyboard is need to play those games and i love them for it.
Also there is the entire "buy it build it love it" aspect that you cant have wiht a factory made console.
 

tsaweeos

New member
Nov 5, 2008
15
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PC gaming is the way to go. I just wish it had more exclusives to give people a reason to upgrade their computers.

But now adays, PC game developers are slowly crawling over to the dark side. Like Valve.
I wish their games were PC exclusives.
 

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Take heart that for what it's worth, Mr. Sands, you're not alone. My own enduring love affair with PC gaming continues to burn brightly. Consoles have their place, but we are what we are, and once a man has installed a VESA driver, manually set an IRQ and grappled with the complexities of expanded memory managers, he'll never be the same - and he'll never truly be satisfied with mere button-mashing.

;)
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
1,241
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Hail friend, well met. Where to go, say you? Where is the new fabled 3D replacement for Myst, or even a Riven I would consider!
 

bkd69

New member
Nov 23, 2007
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Malygris said:
Take heart that for what it's worth, Mr. Sands, you're not alone. My own enduring love affair with PC gaming continues to burn brightly. Consoles have their place, but we are what we are, and once a man has installed a VESA driver, manually set an IRQ and grappled with the complexities of expanded memory managers, he'll never be the same - and he'll never truly be satisfied with mere button-mashing.
;)
a:>copy con config.sys

Puts hair on yer chest, it does.

I finally got an Xbox last summer, for the purposes of running XBMC, and Being a longtime MW player, Mechassault was naturally the first game I picked up to play on it. I knew it was going to be lighter, but I had no idea. But Jordan's got the property back now, and a company to develop it, so hopefully we get to see an MW5 ere too long.

General Crespin said:
For me, though, it's more a case that the PC has more strategy and tactics oriented empire/nation-building games that I love to play. I love me some TF2, but nothing matches building up my army in Empire Earth and decimating an enemy city.
As I noted in a different thread, I think it comes down to resolution+control. Higher resolution means more detailed information, and more of the map that can be in the window at any time. On the control side, the keyboard totally pwnz your standard two-fisted controller in terms of button count, while on the mouse side of things, your bog standard mouse pad has something like 63 square inches mapped to navigating your high res display, while your standard analog thumbstick has what, one or two square inches? A linear half inch of movement in 63 square inches translates into far more precise movement in the display than a linear half inch does inside of two square inches.
 

Playbahnosh

New member
Dec 12, 2007
606
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Okay, you guys took the words outta my mouth... so my mouth has no more words in it...

Anyway, it looks like there are so many Oldschool PC gamers out there, yet the console market is still going strong, despite every effort to make it stop. Not because console gaming is bad, but because it's destroying OUR world of gaming. In the PSX and Dreamcast era, console and PC gaming were two sides of a huge crevice, without a bridge. There were a few ports from here to there, but they inevitably ended up in Jagged Rock Junction. The two crowds had virtually nothing do with the other. The console gamers had the Final Fantasy, Resident Evil and Mario series, and we PC gamers had our C&C, Wizardry and Sierra Adventures. But now, it's a cluster*MEEP* of games, and it becomes harder to distinguish between the two gaming mediums. Console is eating PC alive.

I still play StarCraft, Police Quest and Little Big Adventure, and I will most certainly never play Halo 3.

I like playing Dwarf Fortress.

My lawn, get off it!