Where Hellgate: London Went Wrong

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Where Hellgate: London Went Wrong



In a Hellgate: London post-mortem at GDC 2009, the former Director of Business Development at Flagship Studios revealed where exactly the ambitious start-up had lost its way.

Come with me into the Wayback Machine, where we will descend through the mists of time to the far-off world of 2007, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and we weren't all slaves to Twitter yet. It was a happy, carefree time, when Flagship Studios - made up of former Blizzard North staff - was about to release their first game, Hellgate: London. These were the same people who brought us Diablo II - what could go wrong?

As it turned out, quite a bit. Flagship closed its doors last year, quietly pulling the plug on Hellgate and moving on to other ventures. Stephen Goldstein, the one-time Director of Business Development at Flagship, spoke candidly about the errors that the company had made behind the scenes.

There was no question at all that the Flagship Studios team was talented - but talent does not preclude making mistakes. One such mistake was a simple one - hubris. Simply put, Flagship had started to believe their own hype, and never once considered failure an option. "Everything was plan A," Goldstein said. "There was no plan B. Everything was going to be a massive success." Goldstein cautioned developers to seek out opinions and feedback from people who weren't "in the trenches," from people who did not have a personal stake invested in the success of the game.

Beyond that, Hellgate was simply too ambitious:

[blockquote]It was Flagship's first 3D game, it's first first-person shooter, it's first subscription based game, and it's first time creating software as a service. On top of that, it planned to release the game worldwide in 17 languages, which required 17 builds of the game, with each of its six publishers looking to score "something special" for their version of the game.[/blockquote]

Even then, Goldstein said that the true "company-killing moment" was when Flagship ... turned down people looking to invest in the company and in the game. Had they accepted the money, it might have bought them a few more months of development - which might have made the difference between a polished game and the one that sputtered and sank.

Alas, mistakes cannot be unmade, and the promise of Hellgate: London will have always been that - a promise. Oh well. Lessons learned, and maybe the new Runic Games (formed from the ashes of Flagship) will take these lessons to heart: When people want to give you money, it's probably a good idea to take it.

(Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5185508/where-hellgate-london-and-flagship-studios-went-horribly-wrong])

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oliveira8

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Feb 2, 2009
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When the Flagship people worked for Blizzard they had people who were always on top of them, making sure the team put out the best and only the best. The same thing didnt happen when they went solo.
 

Dectilon

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Sep 20, 2007
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I just don't think their idea was good enough. Even overlooking the bugs, glitches and problems with the multiplayer it simply wasn't a very good game.
 

cainx10a

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May 17, 2008
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Bugs, a broken random dungeon generator with too little texture tiles to keep things fresh, lack of more type of monsters and fun boss battles, Content Patch 2.0 for subscribers which never got released ... I had great fun with HGL: just need to wait for D3 now.
 

TheBluesader

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Dectilon said:
I just don't think their idea was good enough. Even overlooking the bugs, glitches and problems with the multiplayer it simply wasn't a very good game.
That's the reason I didn't check it out in the first place. Even through all the hype, it sounded like a very sorry excuse for a Diablo-esque shooter.

In this case, my avoidance turned out to be founded.

Well, in this case, and in the case of Age of Conan.

I'm so smart.
 

Puppeteer Putin

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Jan 3, 2009
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Interesting stuff CantFakeFunk. So it IS possible to get caught in your own promotional gearing; who thought that possible... Yeah.. I am being sarcastic.

CantFaketheFunk said:
There was no question at all that the Flagship Studios team was talented - but talent does not preclude making mistakes.
Very true. Just emphasises the fact that talent can't go anywhere without anyone to coordinate them. Always need a rational mind to measure and formulate the ingridients list, if not noone will know what that concaucsion is and where it's going.
 

SmugFrog

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Sep 4, 2008
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CantFaketheFunk said:
Had they accepted the money, it might have bought them a few more months of development - which might have made the difference between a polished game and the one that sputtered and sank.
I don't think a few more months would have helped. They were already set in their design and I think they truly believed they had something wonderful.

My friend convinced me to get in on the beta, and I was really enjoying it. After a couple of days though, everything started to feel really repetitive. There were a lot of options available to the game for expansion, and new content; but it felt as though they had built half a game - sort of as a demo - and were letting people play that as a beta.

I had been considering the "lifetime subscription", which would be awesome. A one time fee, and never having to pay a monthly fee and worry about keeping my characters - as long as the servers were running anyway. I preordered it for $5 at an electronics store.

The game felt a lot like Auto Assault (for any of you that played that one - which also collapsed) - just go around and shoot stuff and blow stuff up. That's fun for a while, but it's not a game you want to sink a ton of time into every week. I felt like there was no real point to the game no areas to explore, nothing interesting to find or see. The only thing to do was grind and look for new loot. I realized I didn't want to pay for an endless grind - and I really started doubting how the game would turn out when Flagship couldn't even decide what the monthly subscription was going to pay for (extra "bank slots" was one proposition), otherwise you could play for free and not get "as good of stuff" as the monthly fee people.

5 bucks was as much as they got from me. I never went to pick up my copy - and after release, I was assured that I did the right thing. I'm so glad I didn't sign up for that lifetime subscription.

What was really sad was people trying so hard to defend the game. Even my friends that had picked it up. After a week of playing it, they moved on to other games though. I think a lot of people bought it, because in looking at the concept, it had such potential. Those people felt quite a bit let down, I'm sure, so they tried to look at all of the good things and made attempts to argue about how great Hellgate was.

I was really disgusted with Flagship. The beta was obviously not ready for release. If 5 of the developers had sat down to play that game for a week, how the hell could they admit it was a great game? When you're trying to compete against WoW and the other coming MMOs, you've got to offer more than "Hey! We've got a 1st person/3rd person view, and GUNS! Oh crap, we've gotta come up with something to offer for a monthly fee..."
 

TsunamiWombat

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Sep 6, 2008
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I alpha/beta tested this game

One such mistake was a simple one - hubris.
This. The game was effectivly a 3d Diablo, which would be good if thats what you were selling. But they were selling an MMO. They ignored the testers who almost unanimously cried for more polish, they ignored the suggestions for balancing ranged/melee combat (I got really into it too, offering them suggestions to balance the sniper rifle by increasing it's RoF to more realistic numbers).

The new MMO isn't just quests and killing. It's a multi-pronged assault. It needs to be a game, it needs to be a social network, it needs to be...everything.
 

Skeleon

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Nov 2, 2007
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Tested the Beta and was very unimpressed. Sure, it was addictive for the first 5-10 levels - everything's new and interesting at first. But somehow, the game didn't get you hooked like, say, Diablo 2 did. I can't really put my finger on why I didn't find it intereseting, though.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Skeleon said:
Tested the Beta and was very unimpressed. Sure, it was addictive for the first 5-10 levels - everything's new and interesting at first. But somehow, the game didn't get you hooked like, say, Diablo 2 did. I can't really put my finger on why I didn't find it intereseting, though.
In Diablo 2 you would wade into a crowd of monsters and duke it out, clicking potions to heal you. In Hellgate you'd kite them one at a time and use guns if you weren't one of the ubur gimped melee classes.
 

Skeleon

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TsunamiWombat said:
Skeleon said:
Tested the Beta and was very unimpressed. Sure, it was addictive for the first 5-10 levels - everything's new and interesting at first. But somehow, the game didn't get you hooked like, say, Diablo 2 did. I can't really put my finger on why I didn't find it intereseting, though.
In Diablo 2 you would wade into a crowd of monsters and duke it out, clicking potions to heal you. In Hellgate you'd kite them one at a time and use guns if you weren't one of the ubur gimped melee classes.
So you'd say it's about the killing speed? Quite possible since basically that's all there is to Hack'n'Slay.

It's true, I played as a Ranger. Picking off enemies one by one was really repetitive (and quite slow). Maybe some sweet melee moves would've livened things up a bit I'd already lost all my motivation for that game.

After all, this kind of game is about swatting hordes off monsters and rummaging through piles of loot. If you don't kill quickly enough, you won't get to see that great loot you're looking for, either.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Skeleon said:
TsunamiWombat said:
Skeleon said:
Tested the Beta and was very unimpressed. Sure, it was addictive for the first 5-10 levels - everything's new and interesting at first. But somehow, the game didn't get you hooked like, say, Diablo 2 did. I can't really put my finger on why I didn't find it intereseting, though.
In Diablo 2 you would wade into a crowd of monsters and duke it out, clicking potions to heal you. In Hellgate you'd kite them one at a time and use guns if you weren't one of the ubur gimped melee classes.
So you'd say it's about the killing speed? Quite possible since basically that's all there is to Hack'n'Slay.

It's true, I played as a Ranger. Picking off enemies one by one was really repetitive (and quite slow). Maybe some sweet melee moves would've livened things up a bit I'd already lost all my motivation for that game.

After all, this kind of game is about swatting hordes off monsters and rummaging through piles of loot. If you don't kill quickly enough, you won't get to see that great loot you're looking for, either.
I think the combat was just slightly too clunky on account of how easy it was for you to die. Also, it should've been a singleplayer game. Sorry. Hmm... CAN you still play this game singleplayer? I might pick up a copy for 2 dollars and a penny.
 

wolf_isthebest

the Insane
Mar 4, 2009
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I only wish Diablo 3 would look half as pretty as Hellgate. From what i seen untill now it's Diablo 2 in spades and dx10... Too bad Hellgate London never caught on to public - a few expansions would have made this game epic.