American McGee Says User-Generated Content Should Be "Compensated"

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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American McGee Says User-Generated Content Should Be "Compensated"


American McGee says gamers who create content for games like LittleBigPlanet [http://www.littlebigplanet.com/] should be "compensated" for their efforts because of the added value they contribute to the game.

In an interview with id [http://www.geek.com/articles/games/interview-american-mcgee-talks-about-alice-grimm-and-game-development-in-shanghai-20090421/] shooter. "The only difference now is that someone is trying to monetize it," McGee said. "That's all fine and good, but I think if game products or publishers are relying on 'outside the box' content created by users to drive interest in their titles - then they should find ways of compensating those users for developing added value. That might even inspire the user content communities to step up their game."

He also touched on the evolution of digital distribution and free-to-play models for games. "The free-to-play [model] inside open worlds with monetization of items and information works well. The free-to-play with the expectation that users might return to pay for linear content they've already accessed (essentially the 'TV model') needs refinement, in the content itself and/or the content access mechanism," he said. "Audiences will pay to buy content like South Park [http://www.southparkstudios.com/] even after they've seen the episodes 10s of times - passive entertainment requires nothing more than sitting back and watching. Whereas interactive content - if you did purchase it - requires additional effort to extract the value. There's probably a new profit-generating psychological sweet spot in here, but we've not yet found it."

"Compensating" gamers for user-generated content is an interesting idea but I think McGee's suggestion that the attempted monetization of that content is a new idea is off-base. User-created levels for games like Doom and Demon Gate [http://www.3drealms.com/duke3d/index.html]. McGee's sentiment is admirable but taking advantage of the work of fans is hardly a new phenomenon.


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toapat

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Mar 28, 2009
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the problem is that the user generated content games such as little big planet are not the kind that should deserve compensation, games like spore which keep core gameplay, but allow you to customize would be better in this regard.
 

Doug

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The problem with compensation is that its hard to objectivity measure quality. Especially with different content for different audiences (simple example: kid levels vs adult levels), and given '90% of everything is crap' - Sturgeons law, a flat fee is impractical.

As for 'should there be finanical reward', I'm unsure either way.
 

L.B. Jeffries

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Well, legally speaking, the problem with compensation is that you're implying the modder owns what they've created. There's no way in Hell a company is going to do that when someone is using their program and assets.
 

quellan_thyde

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Yes, compensate the modders, but on a sliding scale. If the UGC is good, pay 'em to scale. If it sucks, kick 'em in the teeth. Though maybe that's not such a good idea after all. From what I've seen of LittleBig Planet's UGC, there will be a lot of people gumming their food if that system comes into practice.
 

Sigenrecht

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If a game revolves around content generated by its users and would be shit otherwise, then it is in the best interests of the community to build content. Simple as that. You damn Capitalists want to be given a dollar for everything, I swear...
 

9of9

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Does this mean that American McGee's Alice 2 will come with a level editor that pays you by the hour for the time you spend working in it?

Because, hell, I'd be all for that...
 

TsunamiWombat

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Indigo_Dingo said:
We are being compensated, with the praise of our peers. Creating something people actually really enjoy is in itself a great incentive: and the crowns don't hurt either.
I got to agree with Dingo on this. Your making addons with your free time using toolsets and SDK's produced by the company. Your using their assets, they're just letting you use it free of charge- and be glad of THAT! Companies can spend alot of money developing engines and creation tools.

Your reward is the fun of it, and a foot into the industry. If you make something legendary, it gets you recognition. Valve has employed some of the best modders who worked on their SDK's before.
 

ElegantSwordsman

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It sounds good on paper, but might be hard to do quality control on. For every decent modder out there, there's a hundred idiots who do nothing but make penis monsters - just look at the Spore creature creator.
 

Salonista

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Indigo and LB have it right: modders (the best ones) do it just to do it, and no rightsholder is ever going to give up theirs for a player's.

Introducing moneychanging into a hobbyist community is asking for trouble. Don your HAZMAT gear and dip a toe into the Sims2 community to see how paying for user made content (paysiting) has made a total mess of what should be freely shared user made content (as stated in the game EULA and, beyond that, selling user made content violates copyright law).

The allegations against the largest TS2 paysite of them all, done in attempts to 'catch' people sharing purchased user made files, are puke-inducing: DDoS attacks on freesites, chasing critical blogs or competitors off of webhosts, passing around people's personal details like home addresses and phone numbers taken from member or PayPal accounts (KIDS play this game for chrissake), banning people and keeping their subscription fees, using freely offered work of others for payfiles, refusing to remove a player's work when requested, admins nicking site users' passwords to close or alter their accounts (even accounts on ANOTHER site if the password's the same!), adding tracking software into downloads...and they're freaking incorporated! It's been estimated that they take in close to a million a year selling people's TS2 game code back to them, game code paysites don't own the rights to and have no permission to sell - they aren't affiliated with EA in any way (other than having their noses jammed up EA's assistant community manager - this particular site seems to have influence at the TS2 official site, it's that preposterous).

Seriously - you don't want that mess.

TS2's is a sheltered community, even now, and user made content is HUGE for this game - but for years so many thought this was just how it was done, and EA's ignoring of the issue kept players in the dark (EA just wants people buying and fansites do that work for them). Paysites intimidated people into thinking that way as well ('we worked hard! give us monies! don't share, it's stealing!'). Except that freesites work hard too but don't expect their fellow gamers to pony up to support their hobby. And they abide the EULA, which specifically states that user made content is permitted for non-commercial uses only.

The only thing tipping the balance is a TS2 user made file sharing site - payfiles are bought and anonymously donated to this site where those files are placed up for free download, fully attributed. This caused a shitstorm you wouldn't believe, but the filesharing site is only adhering to the EULA, posted on its home page for all to read. The community finally turned its head and there is dwindling support for paysites anymore. Still, it's such a big deal for some players that they won't bother with TS3 unless EA tells paysites to bugger off for well and for good. I've read the EULA for TS3, and it doesn't seem to support paysiting - but neither does the TS2 EULA and paysites still exist.

One last bit to consider: the best and largest TS2 freesites get by on strictly voluntary donations - all content is accessible to anyone. The best mods are found there, community made tools are found there, innovation and sharing of knowledge is found there. All free. Paysites don't innovate anything except how to expand their bottom lines.

I'm sorry for the text wall, but mention of compensating hobbyist modders, as grateful as I am to them for sharing their talents, gives me the screaming meemies (I don't know why game company execs would even entertain such an idea, it seems fraught with insane complications). Perhaps best way to compensate a really talented modder is to FLIPPING HIRE THEM. There's crap, there's good stuff, and there's superior stuff. Contract the superior, let the rest just try, learn, improve and share. Run contests, make names for the good ones, recognize the efforts, but for all you hold dear - keep the money out of it.
 

Pimppeter2

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I was gonna make a penis joke, but thought better of it



And my thought better of I mean couldnt think of one
 

Lucane

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Ok payment aside for a second...
If they gave credit for good levels then they'd have to be 100% of thier creator'd design and not breaking any copy right laws. Exp: in Little Big Planet there's a level based off an anime called "Spirited Away" made by a name that escapes me at the moment it's considerably well done and follows the story very well and is great game play but I would think it tricky business to reward his work without crediting the source material it's based from without legal issues (I''m not a lawyer so not sure on the details.) Then with LBP allowing users to offer thier own levels for free for copying and reposting it might become difficult to find a the origanal maker of a certain level ....

Like Spirited Away I didn't realize till recently but a few dozen people have sadly and litterally copied it and published it as thier own work without contributing a single thing.(Ahem.) Sorry that just really erks me that some of humannity can still commit acts like this effortlessly.

Ontopic: money for User made Content with thier tools doesn't really sound right unless it's stated at the beginning I mean if you build a deluxe model car of your own design out of legos you can't just get more pieces and sell them on your own direct to the public.

Plus I don't think they'd like having chances to make add on content for profit be stopped by a User's recent UGC using the same main elements.
 

Svenparty

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The game is basically ABOUT user generated content, it's like expecting a trophy everytime your on the leaderboards in Burnout. The levels are designed with their tools anyway.
 

Frizzle

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Nov 11, 2008
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"Compensation".. yes. In the form of money? No. I like the previously stated idea about getting future producst from that company for free etc. We shouldn't be paid for making mods or anything else. That would creat even more crap, because people all over would be trying to make a quick buck.

Keep that stuff free and for the benefit of recognition and fun for all.
 

Virgil

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Jun 13, 2002
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Malygris said:
American McGee says gamers who create content for games like LittleBigPlanet [http://www.littlebigplanet.com/] should be "compensated" for their efforts because of the added value they contribute to the game.
This is coming from the man that moved to China to get cut-rate development services for his games. I bet he'll be first in line to compensate modders, right?

There's already two forms of compensation. First is from the community - there's a lot of value in the recognition that a good addition can get, and the satisfaction of making a game better. If there wasn't, you wouldn't see the types of creations that we already see. This is the same sort of compensation that causes people to develop free apps in the first place.

Second is for the experience - without these games and their modding tools, it would be incredibly more difficult for someone to gain this type of development experience. And you wouldn't see many of these same people being hired on at game companies based on their work. In this regard, modding could almost be considered to be an unpaid internship.