Flower Intentionally Made Less "Fun"

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
17,672
0
0
Flower Intentionally Made Less "Fun"


Flower creator Jenova Chen talks about how he removed 'fun' elements from the game to keep his original vision intact.

Hot on the heels of Silicon Knights president Dennis Dyack saying that "gameplay isn't everything" [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/93222-Silicon-Knights-President-Gameplay-Isnt-Everything], comes the revelation that Jenova Chen, head of Thatgamecompany, removed features from the PSN game Flower in an effort to make it less 'fun'.

Now, before you leap on him and bash him for his hubris, let's be clear that by 'fun' he means 'like other games on the market'. In a speech at the Develop conference this week, Chen said that Flower had originally had more traditional gameplay elements like spells - included at Sony's insistence that the game needed more depth - but that their introduction spoilt the feeling that the game was meant to convey, so Chen had the features cut.

"Those emotions just derailed the experience - I didn't want to make a game where people just play and shout out 'yes!' all the time."

It raises an interesting question over whether games have to be 'fun' to be good. Indie titles like The Path aren't fun, not in the sense that Street Fighter IV is fun, but they can still be powerful experience. Chen addressed this point by saying:

"As grown up gamer I don't want to see the games I have been playing with love turn into toys. I think games need to have more mature content - but not like [Dead or Alive] or [Manhunt], but more sophisticated works ... Games should make the player think and touch the gamer's emotion. Gameplay needs to be like any other medium - it has to evoke all kinds of responses. Otherwise our industry will flatline."

Source: Develop Online [http://www.develop-online.net/news/32397/Games-need-more-grown-up-content] via Fidgit [http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/07/jenova_chen_intentionally_made.php]


Permalink
 

Sevre

Old Hands
Apr 6, 2009
4,886
0
0
Thats understandable, Indie developers are always taking the industry to new places.
 

Cpt_Oblivious

Not Dead Yet
Jan 7, 2009
6,933
0
0
So games are supposed to be fun, yet we're going to remove the fun?

Odd move, but I don't have a PS3 so I'm not too bothered.
 

Ashbax

New member
Jan 7, 2009
1,773
0
0
Since when is dead or alive a mature game...?

On topic: It kinda makes sense. I hate seeing very indie game turned into a grindfest, the original ideas swamped beneath the efforts of EA's and Activisions EVILNESS.
 

Brotherofwill

New member
Jan 25, 2009
2,566
0
0
I agree with what he said, casting spells in Flower would have been just a diversion. Glad he kept that feature out. The title is pretty misleading though, he explains his reasons well.
Cpt_Oblivious said:
So games are supposed to be fun, yet we're going to remove the fun?

Odd move, but I don't have a PS3 so I'm not too bothered.
Did you read the article?
 

Cpt_Oblivious

Not Dead Yet
Jan 7, 2009
6,933
0
0
Brotherofwill said:
Cpt_Oblivious said:
So games are supposed to be fun, yet we're going to remove the fun?

Odd move, but I don't have a PS3 so I'm not too bothered.
Did you read the article?
Yes (a few times), I just feel that fun stems from raw emotions and if he wants thinking responses rather than emotional ones then he's taking the fun out a of a product that's supposed to be fun.

Thinking and puzzle solving can be fun but I reckon he wants this to be the kind of "thinking outside the box" thinking.

But I'm odd and probably don't understand 100%.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
19,615
4,423
118
You have to think out side of the box in order to create something new and different. FUN isn't everything. A game like Silent Hill 2 wasn't FUN to play, but it was still an amazing experience. More gameplay isn't always better
 

Brotherofwill

New member
Jan 25, 2009
2,566
0
0
Cpt_Oblivious said:
Brotherofwill said:
Cpt_Oblivious said:
So games are supposed to be fun, yet we're going to remove the fun?

Odd move, but I don't have a PS3 so I'm not too bothered.
Did you read the article?
Yes (a few times), I just feel that fun stems from raw emotions and if he wants thinking responses rather than emotional ones then he's taking the fun out a of a product that's supposed to be fun.

Thinking and puzzle solving can be fun but I reckon he wants this to be the kind of "thinking outside the box" thinking.

But I'm odd and probably don't understand 100%.
Flower is quite the emotional game, probably the most emotional game I have ever played. I agree that fun can stem from emotional responses, Flower really excelled at this for me. It's not too much of a thinking game, atleast it wasn't for me.

The only type of 'fun' he removed was traditional gaming related, like casting spells or maybe fighting. He just simplified his creation and made the drive and purpose behind it a lot stronger in my opinion. I've had plenty of fun with this game (I realize I might be the minority here) the flying was extremely intuitive and satisfied my core-gameplay urges with speeds that topped most modern racers.

I don't think his product was meant to be 'fun', especially when he got the idea for it. He (and his company) is one of the only developers that has approached gaming differently; rather than creating the kind of 'oh yeah! that's awesome!' response that most games do he just created something more subtle. I am one of those misty eyed hippies, so maybe that's why I like the game and these kind of approaches to gaming that much.
 

DiamondJim

New member
Sep 27, 2008
312
0
0
It's great that developer's are thinking of this stuff. Games should make people think and have an emotional impact.

However... that's a terrible PR ploy. Hope they're not looking for a blockbuster. But it might be 'fun' just on the basis that it's a little more 'artsy'.
 

Abedeus

New member
Sep 14, 2008
7,412
0
0
What next, let's make books less enjoyable by removing every dialogue from them? Or maybe we should return to black and white deaf movies, but not add subtitles?
 

Brotherofwill

New member
Jan 25, 2009
2,566
0
0
Abedeus said:
What next, let's make books less enjoyable by removing every dialogue from them? Or maybe we should return to black and white deaf movies, but not add subtitles?
What? How does that even make sense or relate to the article?
 

Brotherofwill

New member
Jan 25, 2009
2,566
0
0
Onmi said:
Brotherofwill said:
I agree with what he said, casting spells in Flower would have been just a diversion. Glad he kept that feature out. The title is pretty misleading though, he explains his reseans well.
Cpt_Oblivious said:
So games are supposed to be fun, yet we're going to remove the fun?

Odd move, but I don't have a PS3 so I'm not too bothered.
Did you read the article?
From these posts i'm gathering that some people aren't aware that Flower has been out for yonks.

EDIT: or that it's an indie game.
True, you're right about the 'people just repeating popular opinion' bit. It's amazing to see so many posts have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You and me are probably the only ones that have played it. The changes against 'traditional fun' were made for the better.
 

More Fun To Compute

New member
Nov 18, 2008
4,061
0
0
It's fashionable to only use the word fun when you are attacking things things that are "just simple fun." It sounds like Jenova Chen had a vision for what sort of fun, or experiences, his game would have and had to explain why he should have his way. Myself, I like fun, mainly because it is fun.
 

Booze Zombie

New member
Dec 8, 2007
7,416
0
0
Yeah... if he's going out of his way to not have people enjoy his game, he's in the wrong business, is all I'm saying.