Randomness in Gaming: Good or Bad?

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Randomness in Gaming: Good or Bad?


Game designer Greg Costikyan has posted a transcript of the presentation he gave at the 2009 Game Developers Conference [http://www.gdcaustin.com/] in Austin, in which he talked about the role of randomness in gaming.

Games come in all forms, some purely skill-based while others are highly, or even completely, dependent upon the luck of the draw. It can be a frustrating part of the experience, as our best laid plans are brought low by the capricious whims of the universe, but it's been an important part of the whole for as long as gaming has existed.

"Randomness has been part of games since their earliest inception -- and when I say 'earliest inception,' I mean deep into the unwritten Neolithic past," Costikyan said. "Game scholars sometimes point to The Royal Game of Ur as the earliest known game, and in a sense it is - but we also know of games from any number of Neolithic cultures that survived into the modern era, many of them documented by Stewart Cullin in a series of books for the Smithsonian, published in the early 20th century."

Yet the reliance on chance, he noted, doesn't necessarily mean the outcome of a game will be random. "In a game with chance elements, there will typically be dozens or hundreds of random tests over the course of the game -- many, many times in which dice [are] rolled, or an algorithm that uses a random number as an input applied," he noted. "Paradoxically, the greater the number of random tests, the less effect chance has on the outcome. Over time, random systems regress to the mean."

Costikyan also explained that even some games that appear to be entirely skill-based can have random elements at work under the hood; FPSes, for instance, introduce a random element in weapon damage which isn't enough to cause any surprises in solo play but in multiplayer, introduces "enough variability in a system of chaotic fireplay to prevent a non-random system from becoming dull."

For anyone interested in the intricacies of game design, Costikyan's presentation is a fascinating and detailed look at the role of randomness in an ordered system. "If randomness dictates outcomes, many players will find the game unsatisfying," he said. "But there are times when a degree of randomness plays an important, and useful, role in a design." Check out the whole article at playthisthing.com [http://playthisthing.com/randomness-blight-or-bane].

(photo [http://www.flickr.com/photos/23682502@N04/2256600068/])



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Feb 13, 2008
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Greg Costikyan wrote Paranoia, what more do you need to know? :)

Sound bloke, got to play with him once and you know instantly where Friend Computer came from.
 

Spygon

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May 16, 2009
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i think randomness is a good thing in games as longas its in moderation.As everything in life is down to luck but it doesnt mean working hard for something or being better is worthless its just your giving yourself better odds.
 

Flying Dagger

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Apr 14, 2009
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I was hoping this would be about crazy storylines...
randomness in games is usually good. all board games use it, and i like board games.
i guess it shouldnt be in strategy games though...
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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I usually like a certain element of randomness, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Some genres tend to rely heavily on random rolls, such as RPGs and Strategy games. However, there should be a limit. The Randomness should be the deciding factor when two mostly even forces meet, or a slight edge here and there, it shouldn't turn the tables totally and take all control out of a player's hands.

A good example of a too random game would be the recent Blood Bowl. It's a tactical sports game that basically plays like a turn based american football game with races from the Warhammer setting. Great concept, nice game, but the rules rely on random rolls for almost anything, and the chance to fail is large enough and frequent enough to cause more than a little frustration. Any action beyond moving is a russian roulette. Picking up the ball from the ground has roughly a 50-20% chance of failure (depending on the character used). Passing the ball requires two rolls with a simmilar failure rate. And if a player fails ANY roll, your turn is automatically over. You can have a perfect plan and not even get to play because you had a bad streak...
 

Captain Blackout

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Feb 17, 2009
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Ack! Another hack gamer "genius" looking for the holy grail of gaming!
Maybe that was too harsh. Let's take a closer look.

Costikyan says that skill games are always legel, and random games are often illegal when played for profit. Actually skill games are just as illegal when played for profit in some jurisdictions. There are other reasons why casinos don't feature strict games of skill. Furthermore, his example of Texas Hold'em leaves much to be desired. I've seen poker players play blind as to the cards (completely removing Costikyan's suggestion that they are using statistics to win) and still win. Does he not understand poker as a psychological game apart from the cards?

His summation was a failure in it's own right.
Costikyan says, "If randomness dictates outcomes, many players will find the game unsatisfying(.)" When I was in a cards group playing daily, the Rummy section (random game) was far bigger than the Spades and Hearts section (skill games). Which players did Costikyan use as his sample for that statement? Either he hasn't said much (as many players also find games of skill unsatisfying) or he's trying to sneak in the opposite, that games of skill are preferable to games of chance.

I liked the article over-all, and I look forward to reading in detail. However I found a host of other flaws, more than I wish to list here. Costikyan needs to go back and do his homework. A lot of it. Randomly assigned, for his benefit.
 

Proteus214

Game Developer
Jul 31, 2009
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Unavoidable randomness can be pretty bad where randomness will determine the whole outcome (see Mario Party) without the player being able to do anything about it, but situations where a random event might happen that the player can strategize around is almost always a good challenge except in the cases where it might warrant excessive amounts of repetition.
 

Credge

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Apr 12, 2008
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It depends on the game. Damage variance is a type of random. You may have a string of bad rolls and get nothing but the lowest possible damage in the variance and lose a battle you should have won. Other times you might roll nothing but the highest. While, other times, you might be right in the middle getting a good mix of both.

Really, it depends on the game, how it is being played, and other things. You don't want a skill based game to have many elements of chance just like you don't want luck based games to have many elements of skill.
 

Captain Blackout

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Feb 17, 2009
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Greg Costikyan wrote Paranoia, what more do you need to know? :)

Sound bloke, got to play with him once and you know instantly where Friend Computer came from.
That explains his article: His brain has been fried by the Computer! I would have expected the writer of Paranoia to do a much better job handling this article. Then again, there may be a motivation behind his actions. What is he and the Computer hiding from us?
 

Contun

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Mar 28, 2009
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In some cases yes, but I prefer games be mor based on skill. Skilled players are respected and newer players can learn, adapt, and raise their skills....
 

TheTygerfire

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Jun 26, 2008
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If by randomness you mean if my attack does 250 or 350 damage, then that's fine.

but if by random you mean getting an item can actually HURT me, then no, not at all. I don't play Brawl anymore after I figured out it was one big game of luck.
 

microhive

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Mar 27, 2009
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Diablo series handle randomness pretty well. I've heard some new randomization features in Diablo 3 which are outstanding.
 

wordsmith

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May 1, 2008
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An example of stacked randomness? Mariokart. I dare anyone who's played 8 player multiplayer to look me in the eye and tell me that being first half way around the last lap is a good idea.

I ended up playing the game with a "bodyguard". In other words, an unsuspecting player who I allowed to be in first (but not too far ahead), just to soak up the blue shells and lightning, then overtake him on the last corner.

Hell, there were tracks when it was a good idea to be LAST on your way into the last lap.
 

The Youth Counselor

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Sep 20, 2008
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I think the Pen & Paper level up and roll system is outdated.

They work great for determining the outcome of a game around a circle of friends and a GM, but that's because everything is imaginary and it's the only fair way to give a challenge. Early video game RPGs had roots in the TSR system but we should evolve from that. What developers seem to refuse to see is that there are actual virtual simulations being carried out, instead of it being all imaginary. So when I shoot someone in the head at point blank and blood decals are shown in say "Vampire: The Masquerade" and "Fallout", the chance system should not override that and claim I "missed" and did 0 dmg, or a shot in the eye should being 1.

The player already has to grapple with dealing with his or her environments and taking careful aim with selected weapons and attacks. Why throw this randomness into the mix, when he/she has to already deal with so many variables. The experience would increase when the player gets adjusted to the game.

Don't even get me started on turn based combat. It was bearable thirteen years ago and in a circle of buddies in one of your parent's basements. Again, video games can do better than that. I'm not going to politely stop my attack and finish up to wait for my opponent to strike. Turn based combat in video games is the equivalent of showing up to the movies for a slideshow.
 

Nutcase

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Captain Blackout said:
Furthermore, his example of Texas Hold'em leaves much to be desired. I've seen poker players play blind as to the cards (completely removing Costikyan's suggestion that they are using statistics to win) and still win. Does he not understand poker as a psychological game apart from the cards?
Wrong. He described that quality of poker for an entire paragraph.
His summation was a failure in it's own right.
Costikyan says, "If randomness dictates outcomes, many players will find the game unsatisfying(.)" When I was in a cards group playing daily, the Rummy section (random game) was far bigger than the Spades and Hearts section (skill games). Which players did Costikyan use as his sample for that statement? Either he hasn't said much (as many players also find games of skill unsatisfying) or he's trying to sneak in the opposite, that games of skill are preferable to games of chance.
The word "many" seems too complicated for you.