A View From the Road: Dungeons, Directed
- Thread starter John Funk
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A good idea in theory, but considering how nit picky a lot of high end raiders are (just take a look at elitist jerks' insane theory crafting and charts); I could easily foresee people stacking raids in such a way as to force the AI to play out in their favor.
I mean look at some of the past raids, people stack what works in their favor the best, even if it means stacking all DK dps when they were pulling insane dps in t7 content and excluding their other dps. With Blizzard's promise of Cataclysm's healing not being so sporadic, I think this will help to get rid of those panic moments that wipe raids. Though this isn't the first time something like this has been around. Back in the Karazan days the Satyr boss did something similar and it wiped raids until people just learned to get on the chains right away and the healers left up had to pop cooldowns and tanks had to pop cooldowns to make up for the temporarily disabled healer.
I mean look at some of the past raids, people stack what works in their favor the best, even if it means stacking all DK dps when they were pulling insane dps in t7 content and excluding their other dps. With Blizzard's promise of Cataclysm's healing not being so sporadic, I think this will help to get rid of those panic moments that wipe raids. Though this isn't the first time something like this has been around. Back in the Karazan days the Satyr boss did something similar and it wiped raids until people just learned to get on the chains right away and the healers left up had to pop cooldowns and tanks had to pop cooldowns to make up for the temporarily disabled healer.
So you make that the hardmode encounter. If the director thinks that things are going too smoothly and dishes out a new bag of tricks, then the loot quality is increased to compensate.Nanaki316 said:
Man, I love that idea; the inability for anyone to get in on the raids and harder dungeons is part of what killed my enjoyment of WoW in the end. I played a combat warrior which somehow made me a pariah: I was having fun, but nobody wanted me on their raid teams. Because I didn't try to fit their ideal forms for party structure {a rogue for damage, a warrior for tanking) it was like I was blacklisted just for playing the game my way. If there were an AI system in place so any team of almost any skill-set/equipment level could come together and fight and still get a rewarding challenge, I'd be all over it.
For this to work I think WoW would need to decide once and for all what it wants to be, a game or a social experiment. I stopped playing WoW a while back because everything became dumbed down so anybody *ANYBODY* could play, get kitted and get in raids, which ment 90% of the time your grouping with complete retards. While I get the whole 'whats the point in coding things if only the best get to play it' which makes all the sence in the world to most people and when your trying to get ppl to pay a subscription is the best way forward, to me, a gamer who bought a Game because he likes the challenge of A GAME with *GAMEPLAY* its a bit like saying 'why do you need to do QCF+P to do a fireball when everyone could just press a fireball button instead?' This AI director would be a fun idea if the idea was to just to sit around chatting with your mates online to a backdrop of a bunch of avatars having an epic battle - but then it wouldnt be a real game, it would be mafia wars/farmville with pretty(ish) graphics which is whats its on its way to becoming anyway.
The problem I'm seeing is, how do they decide when you lose? I like the idea of this as it will make it less frustrating, but will you EVER lose? Will there be a cutoff, like "I can only hold back this much, then if you can't handle it, too bad!" sort of deal, and if so, how will they base it on gear? When does he decide that it's just time to die?
And if there is that sort of cutoff, isn't that what they have in place now?
Otherwise, though, I love the ability to make a fight harder because people are doing better. A surprise ability only seen by expert raiders would be fantastic, and it would make for the ability to add achievements like "Survive a 6-man needle blast" into even regular raids.
And if there is that sort of cutoff, isn't that what they have in place now?
Otherwise, though, I love the ability to make a fight harder because people are doing better. A surprise ability only seen by expert raiders would be fantastic, and it would make for the ability to add achievements like "Survive a 6-man needle blast" into even regular raids.
I take flak from some "Serious" raiders for not taking the easy Destruction DPS for a warlock, but a couple guys know I'm smart and good at both taking direction and learning fights fast, and I end up in their raids as often as possible. It's just a matter of finding the right group.DaxStrife said:
I want to play a game that is the reverse of what you explained. I wanna see the boss target teh most critical party members not the least critical ones. It always ticks me off when playing an rpg that the critters seem to pick random characters when you have one doing heavy damage and another healing. And the rest are just kinda hanging out. I want an AI director with a sense of self preservation. Not one who will be sure I always win.
I think it's your last point that's most important and the one that most people would probably be upset over. There's a nice sense of empowerment or accomplishment by going back to a previous raid/dungeon in higher level gear and just annihilating everything. It's fun to go back to a raid like Naxx to gear out a friend while your in ToGC level gear; it tends to be much more casual and relaxing.
That being said I love the idea of "intelligent" bosses. Personally I'd like to see more variety in the bosses, more situations where the group splits up (Thorim/Yogg) or where players might have to do some sort of puzzle or other non-combat activity during a fight (apparently EQ2 has this? Not sure though)
That being said I love the idea of "intelligent" bosses. Personally I'd like to see more variety in the bosses, more situations where the group splits up (Thorim/Yogg) or where players might have to do some sort of puzzle or other non-combat activity during a fight (apparently EQ2 has this? Not sure though)
Making the game more accessible is akin to making it play itself? I'm sorry, but I have an issue with your statement. Just because it doesn't have your hardcore NESesque difficulty doesn't mean it's no longer a game. Take a look at chess for example, everyone can make the same moves just as easily as the grand masters, but it's the strategy behind them that makes all the difference. Games shouldn't be about "do I have the exact timing to pull off this combo/this move" and should be more about "which move should I use in this specific situation" something that L4D's AI Director, for example, pulls off marvelously.DObs said:
I like this idea. I am of the school that these raids are more of a benchmark then a exploration of knew content. If you were even trying to play L4D 2 and not good enough to play on expert the game doesn't get so easy that it is a joke. There is easier content and if you can't do that I am kinda sorry.
I think this is a more practicle application. Why not have an AI director so that when you enter an area your attacked intelligently by the inhabitants and not have you ponderously pace through one after another *slightly* different bosses who all happily wait in a que and allow you to beat the one before it without ever doing anything.squid5580 said:
I have to agree with you 100%. I want a challenge when I play a game, not to be spoon fed gratification and since I'm an elitist I defiantly don't want other less skilled / dedicated people to reap the same rewards I do for a fraction of the work.DObs said:
I think you're all missing the point here. The point is that it would still be a challenge, just an infinitely more scalable one.
Do the zombies lie down and die in L4D just because the Director adapts the game to how you're performing? Of course not.
Do the zombies lie down and die in L4D just because the Director adapts the game to how you're performing? Of course not.
"John's guild killed Marrowgar on Saturday, but Lady Deathwhisper is going to be a total ***** and a half."
From what ive heard of the Marrowgar fight, its just a combination of the first couple of bosses in Black Temple. Narjentus and his spikes that you must kill especially. Ive also heard that Lady Deathwhisper is M'uru with a lich costume on. If you did well in Sunwell Plateau, i doubt that Deathwhisper will be as much of a challenge as you expect. My 2 cents.
From what ive heard of the Marrowgar fight, its just a combination of the first couple of bosses in Black Temple. Narjentus and his spikes that you must kill especially. Ive also heard that Lady Deathwhisper is M'uru with a lich costume on. If you did well in Sunwell Plateau, i doubt that Deathwhisper will be as much of a challenge as you expect. My 2 cents.
