184: Diversity, One Dragon-Punch at a Time

FunkyJ

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Jul 26, 2006
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Sylocat said:
There's another reason why fighting games are still popular: You only need one console to play them.

More and more "high-end" games, especially shooters, are moving towards exclusively online play. Most shooters today literally do not have splitscreen capability. The reason for this is obvious: Four players playing on one console only spent $60 bucks on the game and $300 on the console. If you force each player to get his own console and copy of the game, they have to spend $1,440 to do so, plus the fees for the online play.
I saw this as a letter to the editor and realised what a complete load of rubbish it is.

The best shooters of last year - Gears 2, Left 4 Dead, COD World At War, Resistance 2, all featured multiplayer splitscreen, with most of them having cooperative gameplay.

Theory debunked.
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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FunkyJ said:
Sylocat said:
There's another reason why fighting games are still popular: You only need one console to play them.

More and more "high-end" games, especially shooters, are moving towards exclusively online play. Most shooters today literally do not have splitscreen capability. The reason for this is obvious: Four players playing on one console only spent $60 bucks on the game and $300 on the console. If you force each player to get his own console and copy of the game, they have to spend $1,440 to do so, plus the fees for the online play.
I saw this as a letter to the editor and realised what a complete load of rubbish it is.

The best shooters of last year - Gears 2, Left 4 Dead, COD World At War, Resistance 2, all featured multiplayer splitscreen, with most of them having cooperative gameplay.

Theory debunked.
Which is WHY they were more popular than the 3651364276 shooters that DIDN'T feature splitscreen multiplayer.

Failed attempt at controversy debunked.
 

Ray Huling

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Feb 18, 2008
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Playbahnosh said:
A few hundred thousand gamers beg to differ
A few hundred thousand is an irrelevant number, when it comes to mainstream media.

Playbahnosh said:
Gaming have become a spectator sport already, just some people are not aware of it.
Some people do like to watch competitive gaming. Outside of South Korea, which is a unique case, no one's been able to make a sustainable business out of it.

Playbahnosh said:
IMHO, the whole article is a little racist...Yes, some people are throwing around racial slur and thrash-talk during gaming, but it's not a matter of racism, it's a matter of education and upbringing.
There is no discussion in my piece of racial slurs or trash-talk.
 

Playbahnosh

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Dec 12, 2007
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Ray Huling said:
A few hundred thousand is an irrelevant number, when it comes to mainstream media.
You realize what you've just said, right? A few hundred thousand is irrelevant? How can you say such a thing? You are talking about yourself too, you know, you are a gamer too, are you not? You like to watch these event's, do you not? Then you just called yourself irrelevant, along with me and, yes, many hundred thousand others just like us.

Mainstream media. You are saying that like it is some big, faceless, ignorant monster who controls our lives and doesn't care about anyone. When in fact, the mainstream media is us! The "mainstream media" is what's irrelevant in gaming! That crowd is made of you, me, the guy posting above me, every gamer. And yes, some of us like to watch StarCraft matches online and still like to play Tekken 4 with friends. I'm not saying that we are the ruling majority around, but we are far from irrelevant, so please don't say that.


Some people do like to watch competitive gaming. Outside of South Korea, which is a unique case, no one's been able to make a sustainable business out of it.
So you are saying, that only those people count, who can make a sustainable business out of competitive gaming? No offense, but you have pretty weird mindset. If you are talking about corporate interests, then you are right. But I though your piece was about the people who watch and play competitive games, not the ones trying to get a profit from that. But, I go with that for the sake of common ground.

Outside of South Korea there are competitive gaming broadcasts/podcasts/shows/etc. From the top of my head, there is C&C's BattleCast (a part of C&C TV) for example. They are very American, and that is not South Korea, if I'm not mistaken. There is HLTV, which you can use to watch matches of many Half Life based games. There are many more like these all over the internet. Sure, these are not commercial TV channels, but don't say that the Internet is irrelevant too.

There is no discussion in my piece of racial slurs or trash-talk.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I think your article regards this issue with a strong racial (not racist really) overtone. Maybe I'm too accepting, but I never thought there is a problem of racial segregation in gaming. And I'm not talking about racism or trash talk here in general. What I wanted to tell in that post was, for most people, this isn't an issue at all. Most people I know never even considered to choose or avoid a game character based on race or ethnicity. This stands for the people they play with too. They are humans, just like everyone else. They are gamers, just like us, and that's all that matters. If they are from the hood, from the West Side, from Guatemala, from South Korea, from Hungary... what does it matter? If we all speak at least one common language, gaming, why should the color of our skin, or the size of our wallet matter? I always thought about games like activities making people come together, to forget all their prejudices and have fun together. Boys, girls, blacks, latinos, caucasians, rich, poor... everyone.

I think the issue you are talking about has more to do with "cliques" and less with racial segregation. But that's just my opinion...
 

Woe Is You

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Jul 5, 2008
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Pat M. said:
who the hell puts hibiki in a cvs2 top five? the fact that she can't use her qcf+p against bison is enough to pull her out of there.
I'm pretty sure that's the whole roll cancelling glitch at work making most of Bison's moves impossible to land consistently.

Akas said:
And there's something that needs to be said about the article: the people who play these games aren't looking to beat people up. They're looking for something that all competitive players look for: respect.
I'm going to disagree here solely because that isn't the way I feel about fighting games. I like playing the competitively, I like improving in them but that's because I consider them a challenge. A brain teaser if you will. Outsmarting another smart player is immensely rewarding and respect? Well...that's just a possible extra.

Also, if the folks doing the SF4 netcode have learnt from the guys who did the netcode for HD Remix, I think we'll have a pretty lag free experience.
 

Ray Huling

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Feb 18, 2008
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Playbahnosh said:
You realize what you've just said, right? A few hundred thousand is irrelevant?
Yes.

The intention behind CGS was to elevate gaming to the level of other professional sports competition. That didn't happen.

What hundreds of thousands of gamers do may be interesting (obviously, I think it is), but just because it's interesting doesn't mean that it qualifies as a mainstream, professional sport.

Playbahnosh said:
So you are saying, that only those people count, who can make a sustainable business out of competitive gaming?
No. I'm saying that only those people who make a sustainable business out of competitive gaming count as people who have made a sustainable business out of competitive gaming.

You're taking the statement of a fact--no one has made competitive gaming into a sustainable business--as a value judgment. They're not the same thing.

Playbahnosh said:
Maybe I'm too accepting, but I never thought there is a problem of racial segregation in gaming.
What you accept or don't accept doesn't matter. Look at other responses to the article. They agree that the demographics of fighting game competition are precisely what I've reported: mainly black, latino, and asian. It doesn't matter what you want or what you think of the situation. The fact is that whites constitute an obvious minority in this arena.

Now, you're arguing that we shouldn't pay attention to this fact. Ok. Get out there and pay no attention!
 

Playbahnosh

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Dec 12, 2007
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Ray Huling said:
What you accept or don't accept doesn't matter. [...] It doesn't matter what you want or what you think of the situation. [...] Ok. Get out there and pay no attention!
What's with all the hostility? I don't think I did or said anything to insult you in any way, or incite that kinda response. If I did, please elaborate.

On the other hand, in a discussion, it is considered rude to simply ignore the other's opinions or blatantly dismiss them as irrelevant. I think what I said about professional gaming and the spectator side is very relevant to this issue at hand. I don't know what you consider professional sport or event that is big enough, but I think WCG is quite a large scale tournament to fit the description. It's worldwide, has different "sports" in it, and it is sometimes called the Olympics of gaming. It may be not focusing on fighting games per say, but it's anything but irrelevant.

But, it seems like you don't want to have an intelligent discussion about anything, so if you don't care, respond with hostility and dismissal, there is no point really. If you think my opinion, and some hundred thousand gamer's opinion is totally irrelevant compared to yours, suit yourself.

Have fun...
 

Ray Huling

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Feb 18, 2008
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Playbahnosh said:
What's with all the hostility? I don't think I did or said anything to insult you in any way, or incite that kinda response. If I did, please elaborate.

Playbahnosh said:
IMHO, the whole article is a little racist.
Here's your problem: you think that any investigation into race implies a racist perspective.

I don't think I can help you with this problem.


Playbahnosh said:
I don't know what you consider professional sport or event that is big enough, but I think WCG is quite a large scale tournament to fit the description.
WCG is big for games. It's not big compared with even minor professional sports. It's nowhere near the size of, say, professional mountain biking, despite having the sponsorship of Microsoft.

The test of whether a competition meets the standard of a professional sport lies in the ambitions of CGS. CGS thought it could attract pay-per-view audiences and a sustainable stream of advertising. It couldn't.

The key aspect of professional competition is money. Professional gaming competition survives as a form of advertising itself. WCG is a Microsoft/Samsung ad, rather than a revenue-generating business of its own.


The community you described is an amateur community, not a professional one. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is.
 

Pat M.

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Jul 11, 2006
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Woe Is You said:
Pat M. said:
who the hell puts hibiki in a cvs2 top five? the fact that she can't use her qcf+p against bison is enough to pull her out of there.
I'm pretty sure that's the whole roll cancelling glitch at work making most of Bison's moves impossible to land consistently.
just for the record:

No.

"Roll Canceling" is when you cancel a special move into a roll, getting the roll's invincible frames added to the special move.

What I'm talking about is that Hibiki's best move, her qcf+p slash, which is basically the only thing she has to end a combo, is punishable by Bison's scissor kick EVEN WHEN IT HITS. Which means that a decent bison player can basically LET Hibiki hit him, and if she tries to get any more damage off a combo than a few c.lks, she'll eat a custom combo for 90%+ damage.