Chris Taylor Calls Supreme Commander 2 The Best in "Large Scale RTS"

Greg Tito

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Sep 29, 2005
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Chris Taylor Calls Supreme Commander 2 The Best in "Large Scale RTS"



Chris Taylor of Gas Powered Games places Supreme Commander 2 [http://www.amazon.com/Supreme-Commander-2-Xbox-360/dp/B002BXJ87K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1278971245&sr=1-1] as one of the best games that he's ever made.

Supreme Commander 2 was released for the PC on March 2, and will be available on the Xbox 360 on March 16th. Today at GDC 2010, I sat down with Chris Taylor, the lead designer and CEO of Gas Powered Games and we talked about why he considers Supreme Commander 2 a "large-scale RTS" and how designing an RTS for the Xbox controller informed the design on all platforms.

As the lead designer on the large RTS, Taylor is psyched about the end result. "I'm very very pleased with the way Supreme Commander 2 worked out," Taylor said. "I think it's one of the best games we've made at GPG [Gas Powered Games]. "

The ability to zoom out to a macro scale was a tenet of the first Supreme Commander and Taylor says that the sequel delivers that kind of beauty once again. "The maps and terrain, the whole look of the game is so much more dynamic and interesting. There's no border edge around the map anymore, it feathers straight out to the horizon," Chris said.

Taylor also put a moniker on Supreme Commander which was never there before, but makes a whole lot of sense. "It's really leading the way in large scale RTS. I've never actually said those words before now, which is really odd, because you'd think it'd be the first thing out of my mouth when I was launching the first Supreme Commander. There's small scale and large scale RTS, and we're on the large scale side of things.

Why make a large scale strategy game as opposed to smaller skirmishes? Chris likens the experience to big budget Hollywood epics like 300 or Sparatcus. "Scenes in Gladiator, where there's armies clashing together, we love those armies As kids when we played in the sandbox, we may have only had 25 plastic soldiers, but we imagined 25,000. This is where large scale RTS plugs into the psyche of the gamer," Taylor said.

Developing Supreme Commander 2 for the Xbox 360 was a challenge, but it ultimately pushed the design forward for the PC version. "People are like, 'Oh did the 360 mean that we had to dumb down the PC?' and I said, 'No, it was the opposite.' The 360 version has made a better PC game, in so many ways."

One of those ways is the "paint attack" feature, which allows you to select multiple units and give them the command to attack anything in a broad swath of area, much like a Photoshop paint brush tool. "The paint select that was done in Halo Wars was brilliant, but we added 'paint attack' which was not done in Halo Wars," Taylor said. "The fruit was hanging so low, we just reached up and plucked it. 'Paint attack' changes the whole game." That one design element, which was at first added for the console control scheme, became so useful that Taylor decided to add it to the PC version.

"If you do nothing else, play the game and do a 'paint attack'," Taylor said. "It's awesome."

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geldonyetich

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Aug 2, 2006
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The ability to zoom out to a macro scale was a tenet of the first Supreme Commander and Taylor says that the sequel delivers that kind of beauty once again.
That's not the feeling I got out of the demo - seems to me like the zoom has been considerably reduced.

I also didn't like how the resource model has been set up in such a way that I can't queue units to build ahead of my current resources.

If they fixed these two problems in a patch, I might consider getting it.
 

Doc Cannon

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Feb 3, 2010
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The fact that they changed the economy still breaks my heart </3
Oh, and they made experimentals weaker.

Oh! And pathfinding is pretty bad.

Damn! I almost forgot about no more engineers helping out each other while building.

And the fact that there's no more tiered units!

But, hey, paint attack just made SupCom2 an awesome game.
 

Esspytood

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Dec 15, 2008
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i blew a one and rage because i was still in the glimmer from the first supreme commander but the more you play it the lower the rage gets and by itself its quite alright.
 

drizztmainsword

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Apr 15, 2009
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Compared to the first Supreme Commander, the sequel is complete and utter crap. The feel of the game isn't remotely the same. The scale has shrunk dramatically, and the economic system has been utterly bungled up.
 

Fenixius

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Feb 5, 2007
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Apparently, Mr Taylor is living in some fantasy land where UI changes can absolve changing/simplifying/ruining the core gameplay mechanics.

...I want what he's smoking.
 

Kollega

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I still do not get why would they break the economic system. Sure, it wasn't easy to manage, but it was important to the feel of a game. Now it's just boring old Command & Conquer economy. Which sucks.
 

Powerman88

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Dec 24, 2008
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I loved Total Annihilation, I LOVED the first SupCom, and playing the demo for supcom2 REALLY broke my heart into a million pieces. I'm glad I'm not the only one. How can he expect that to compete with Starcraft 2?
 

Sir Kemper

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Paint Attack...Oh god i'm haveing flash backs to Art Attack...

Gah, the Dev even looks like him!

In all seriousness, thats...quite a boast, Perhaps i shall try said game if i can get my hands on it.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Sep 6, 2008
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Supreme Commander 2 is a GOOD game, but no where near as good or revolutionary as the original title. Complex? Yes, but it was the ultimate extension of the macro-RTS game. Giant armies, giant units, base build orders and synergies, with units of various value.

I can respect the attempts of Supreme Commander 2 to simplify it's control, UI, and streamline it's experiance to make it more accessable to a wider audience. And I certainly understand the primary motivation of any game is to make money and that the original SupCom might have been too niche to do that. But SupCom2 made the cardinal sin. THOU SHALT NOT PORT TO CONSOLE.

Yes, I KNOW they ported a gimped SupCom to console, but they did that -AFTER- the game was out on PC. SupCom 2 was designed from ground up to be played on PC and console, and suffered for it.

Ontop of this, nearly all of the design elements from the original game, from the economy to buildings to the transport system were scrapped, making the game far more generic in the process.

Story and voice acting is better, but it's not going to compete with Star Craft. Really it's pretty comperable to the first game, except your commander has actual personality now.

In short, Supreme Commander 2 is a nice generic stand alone game, easily a 7 or 8 out of 10. For anyone who was a fan of the first and was waiting for this however, it's nothing less then a kick in the balls.

PS: The games documentation and hints are still shitty, because I know not what this Paint Attack is nor how to do one. How is it different from attack move?
 

Dommyboy

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Jul 20, 2008
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Streamlining a PC game for the console version? Because after all, PC users really like it when that happens, right?
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Supreme Commander was a terrible terrible followup to Total Annihilation, and from everything I hear Supreme Commander 2 is worse. My suspicion is that TA was really just a fluke, and Chris Taylor is the latest in a long line of developers who have undeserved "star power". Dungeon Siege was rather aggressively marketed with his name on the front of the box, and that game turned out to be a real pile of arse.
 

Fenixius

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Feb 5, 2007
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Shamanic Rhythm said:
Supreme Commander was a terrible terrible followup to Total Annihilation, and from everything I hear Supreme Commander 2 is worse.
Why was Supreme Commander worse than Total Annihilation? Felt the same to me.
 

MR T3D

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Feb 21, 2009
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to be fair, it is the only large scale RTS i can think of that's new.
still like it.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I bought the first Supreme Commander and was far from impressed to be honest. Unlike other RTS games this one did not suck me in. As a result I have no interest in Supreme Commander 2.

That said dumbing everything down to make it more accesible to the masses seems to be the current strategy so it doesn't surprise me. You see it in every genere, and nobody should be surprised that RTS games are included. ENN even did a bit on how badly the RPG elements in RPG games are being reduced... sadly if only the problem was as simple as French Canadian terrorists.
 

Deathfish15

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Nov 7, 2006
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Powerman88 said:
I loved Total Annihilation, I LOVED the first SupCom, and playing the demo for supcom2 REALLY broke my heart into a million pieces. I'm glad I'm not the only one. How can he expect that to compete with Starcraft 2?
Let us see, for a minute:

Star Craft 2 = limited resources

Supreme Commander 2 = unlimited resources

That alone makes SupCom2 stand out differently than SCraft2. With SCraft2, each map has a limited amount of those crystals spawning, and once all are harvested, no more units can be made and then it's "1st one out loses". With SupCom2, players can create a never-ending steam of factory created armies that make for far more epic battles.

Oh, and SupCom2 has the super-zoomed out control mode method (I don't think SCraft2 has this, as the 1st one didn't).

And SupCom2 has it's Experimental Units and it's ACU super-soldier units, which I KNOW SCraft2 doesn't have.

P.S. I hate to say it, but SCraft is a rip-off of the GamesWorkshop Warhammer 40k material, such as how Zerg resemble the Tyranids, or how the Terran resembles the Space Marines, or how the Protoss are slightly similar to the Eldar. Honestly, they did the exact same thing for the Warcraft series which they ripped from the Warhammer (original) series. And ya, GW made theirs first as it was in the 1980's while Starcraft/Warcraft released a decade later in the 1990's.

Khitten said:
Isn't it one of the only "large scale" RTS around? I have not played #2 yet but I was unimpressed with #1. Yes, I could have hundreds of units running around but mostly it turned into a horrible cluster fuck with poor control and horrible pathfinding.
I will stick to my smaller scale RTS thank you very much.
Well, I'd suggest trying the demo because #2 really clears up the "cluster ****" nicely with unit grouping. Just by clicking and dragging, or shift-clicking groups, you put them together into a batch that you'll get a singular icon control (stacked ontop of the batch of individual unit icons, of course) for that group. It makes group control, batching, and advancement on the battlefield that much more easier. Oh, and they also auto-group from their construction factory at their rally point.