194: Adverse Interaction

Elizabeth Marsh

New member
Mar 23, 2009
1
0
0
Adverse Interaction

Each year, there are more and more cases of people playing videogames to the detriment of their overall physical and mental health. So it might surprise you to learn that in the eyes of the medical community, "videogame addiction" doesn't exist. Elizabeth Marsh examines how psychologists are struggling to define, diagnose and treat this contentious condition.

Read Full Article
 

Labyrinth

Escapist Points: 9001
Oct 14, 2007
4,732
0
0
It's also easy to get addicted to websites and the like. I know there are any number of Escapist Forum 'regulars' who would tag themselves as addicts. There's something so tasty about the ability to spout opinions endlessly. So satisfying.

A degree of scepticism is understandable when it comes to this kind of thing, but the blatant refusal to suggest that the addiction is an independent psychological issue just hamstrings any attempts to help sufferers. As far as I'm aware mental health is an increasing issue globally. It's about time someone gives the chance for treatment.
 

L.B. Jeffries

New member
Nov 29, 2007
2,175
0
0
There was psychologist out of Boston who was having trouble learning how to deal with patients who experienced traumatic events in online games. Stuff like having your EVE Online Empire destroyed, things like that. The interesting thing he pointed out was that half the reason these people's problems spiral is the intense shame and denial that comes with gaming. Clinically, people are more ashamed of being addicted to an online game than they are of being addicted to internet porn simply because at least with porn people quasi-understand the appeal.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/06/08/craft_addicts/?page=1

From a legal perspective, I wouldn't be shocked if game publishers and developers were adamantly against games being declared addictive. I've read countless interviews of developers like Blizzard or Pop Cap bragging about nailing the addictive formula or figuring out just the right setup to get people to play for hours. If games get classified as potentially addictive, all those insurance companies are going to have start coughing up the cash for the therapy and wrecked lives.

And you can bet they're going to want their money back. One way, or the other.
 

Clemenstation

New member
Dec 9, 2008
414
0
0
L.B. Jeffries said:
From a legal perspective, I wouldn't be shocked if game publishers and developers were adamantly against games being declared addictive. I've read countless interviews of developers like Blizzard or Pop Cap bragging about nailing the addictive formula or figuring out just the right setup to get people to play for hours. If games get classified as potentially addictive, all those insurance companies are going to have start coughing up the cash for the therapy and wrecked lives.
Yeah, I'd love to see the design process for games under those circumstances:

"Okay, so we've hooked the player with a really intense rail shooter segment... lots of explosions, their heart rate is pumping! So now let's throw in a 25 minute unskippable cutscene about how their character really enjoys a tasty herring, just a lot of longwinded sentences about how delicious fish is... because we need that player to be turning OFF the console before we get freakin' sued."
 

Falien

New member
Nov 21, 2008
126
0
0
Having been through the World of Warcraft addiction experience myself (thankfully not as bad as "Michael" in the article), I would like to differentiate between two concepts here. On one side we have the general concept of videogame addiction, but I believe we should separate the more specific MMOG addiction from it.

There are two issues that make MMOG addiction different: I'd give them the working titles of "availability" and "character identification".

When playing any single-player game, you have the means to control your play-time: most (if not all) single-player games allow you to record your progress via saves or by dividing the game into chunks. The player can then stop playing for as long as they want (to go out with friends, watch a movie, take a vacation, whatever), then resume from where they left off with no adverse effects.

Unlike single-player games, you cannot exercise the same control when playing a MMOG. MMOGs start out simple enough - log in, check the sights, play a bit, log out - but soon you realize the downside to this huge persistent world you joined: it continues existing and changing even when you're offline. You then start to change your approach, increasingly relying on those Fifteen More Minutes [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_194/5879-Fifteen-More-Minutes] mentioned in another article, because that guy who is helping you kill that monster for that quest will probably not be around if you log off now and come back later. By the time you get to the so-called "endgame" content, your gaming habits are altogether different. Instead of planning your play-time around your other activities, your whole day starts to revolve around playing. Quests are now raids, "that guy" is now a whole guild of guys and that means painstaking planning of play-time, so that 25 people can be online at the same time to take down a big monster. It's not a simple matter of "saving" your progress anymore - if you miss playing even one day, you risk missing an opportunity for getting "loot" from that monster, or an event like a first kill, or some such.

However, as a phrase often seen on the World of Warcraft forums goes, this all is "working as intended" - you cannot make a MMOG without a persistent world, and you cannot have a persistent world without the aforementioned problems.

Now for the character issue. On most single-player games, you're controlling a predesigned protagonist, whom you may or may not identify with. Some single-player games (eg. The Elder Scrolls series) allow for extensive character customization, but you're still playing your perfect alter-ego alone. Here's where MMOGs come in - you get to create a highly-customizable character, then you get to show him/her to everyone else. The show-off in all of us takes charge here, which means that it's not just a question of progressing in the game anymore, it's a way of feeling that dubious satisfaction of seeing your female warrior (whom you identify with even though you're a male accountant or some such - no disrespect intended) look better than some other bloke's female warrior. When combined with some degree of sociopath behaviour, MMOGs can be a very attractive alternative to the "cruel" real world.

On a similar note, there's the social rejection issue: your real-life friends don't like you cause you're fat/ugly/depressed, but your guildies love you because you're the best tank/healer/DPS in the guild. When the time comes to choose between an office party and a raid, the choice seems obvious. Granted, it takes effort to be the best tank/healer/DPS, but it's all done by playing a game, not by going on a diet or some other such chore, which is why in the end, the raid wins. Although I'd like to believe this is a MMOG issue, the recent article Crazy In Love [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_188/5741-Crazy-in-Love] on The Escapist, and especially the disturbing material on "the FFVII house" and the "Sarah" case I eventually read by following the links have convinced me that single-player games can also exacerbate sociopath behaviour to extremes.

Last but not least, I'd like to point out that potential victims of MMOG addiction are not limited to people who are at odds with real life and looking for something better. As the article mentioned, for Michael the addiction started at a time when he was on the top of the world, and it was the same with me. What's more, before I started playing WoW, I actively opposed online games of all types because I believed their emergence was detrimental to the quality of single-player games. The reason I started playing WoW was because there was so much publicity - everyone was talking about it! With the benefit of hindsight, it's quite obvious that the publicity was intended to sell subscriptions, which it did, in buckets. I now realize that the MMOG publicity cogs are continuously turning, which is why even minor news concerning MMOGs are given extremely wide coverage.

In Europe, where I live, it is widely believed that the restrictions on cigarette advertising has helped combat smoking addiction among young people. If MMOGs were similarly spared the "glamour" treatment, maybe we'd have less MMOG addicts. As the article mentions, the medical community refuses to acknowledge "videogame addiction" as a valid pathological state. Think about how much revenue Blizzard, Sony et al. stand to lose should things change, then you might see why history always seems to be repeating itself.
 
Nov 5, 2007
453
0
0
L.B. Jeffries said:
From a legal perspective, I wouldn't be shocked if game publishers and developers were adamantly against games being declared addictive. I've read countless interviews of developers like Blizzard or Pop Cap bragging about nailing the addictive formula or figuring out just the right setup to get people to play for hours. If games get classified as potentially addictive, all those insurance companies are going to have start coughing up the cash for the therapy and wrecked lives.

And you can bet they're going to want their money back. One way, or the other.
That and it would be terrible from a PR point of view. Games are already being attacked for things they don't do. If they are recognized as being addictive, you'll get a bunch of special interests groups on their back.
 

ae86gamer

New member
Mar 10, 2009
9,009
0
0
Wait is it bad that I sometimes play Fallout 3 for like 18 hours a day.....uh oh.
 

slayermaster

New member
Aug 9, 2008
86
0
0
well it is obivous that people can get gaming addictiions, i think it still takes a fucign lot to get the point of loosing job/friends/ect. then again they added nicotean to world of warcraft. the key to fun gaming is not overdoing it.
 

Playbahnosh

New member
Dec 12, 2007
606
0
0
Falien said:
[huge wall of text]
Wow, reading and article in the forum for an article? Nice. I have some points Id like to discuss.

First of, I don't think this addiction thing is valid for two reasons. Simply, todays young society is built around gaming and the internet as a habit, be it console, PC, arcade or whatever, much like our parents' generation was built around TV/movies...etc. Those things are not considered addictions. True, there must be some obscure medical term for people who "watch too much TV/movies...somesuch" but it's not a mainstream thing to be a TV addict, because it's so commonplace to have a television set and watch it. Unlike gambling, drugs and alcoholism, gaming doesn't destroy your life per say. It doesn't require huge wads of money to sustain, it isn't straightforwardly destroying your health and doesn't have real withdrawal symptoms. Yes, this may be a longshot, but I still consider this at least somewhat true.

On the other hand, I don't think gaming will suffer one bit even if some egghead profs decide that gaming is in fact an addiction. Just look at the gambling industry, Vegas, look at the alcohol and cigarette industry or the cocaine industry. They are going stronger than ever, despite them being labeled "addictive and dangerous".

I don't think playing video games can be put in the same pile. I think being 'addicted' to games is much like being addicted to work, or being addicted to drive a car/use public transportation. You don't really need to do these things on a daily basis, but you do anyway, to fulfill a need, in this case having money, or getting somewhere. In the case of gaming, it fulfills the need for joy and entertainment. What's so different?

Just my $0.02
 

thejoshualee

New member
Mar 12, 2009
44
0
0
Ah... the question as to an official diagnosis. This is an interesting one. Wouldn't it be grand to believe that the psychiatric community could all come to a consensus as to what normal behavior is rather than how bogged down it gets in politics, petty feuds, and pressure from social sources... you know, like every other aspect of humanity?

Yes, a label would make treatment available to those with real problems more easy to attain. You know, my uncle lost his wife and kids because all he did was watch football, but that's different I suppose. If addiction to watching football became labeled as officially addictive because blokes like my uncle have their brain hardwired to respond more radically to the positive reinforcements football gives, the entire structure of football would have to be reviewed with governmental oversight (hence governmental limits on other addictive activities, chemical in nature sure, but still).

Want a law that says you can't play a MMOG till the age of 18? Of course not. At least I don't want the government limiting the free expression of ideas that any game has. Limit the advertising of games? No, that would be extremely detrimental to the industry (and give a pointed argument to the addictive qualities of video games as opposed to, say, smoking who aren't allowed most forms of advertising).


So it's a game of pro verses con. On the one side an official declaration by the pantheon of psychology would allow those with honest to goodness issues get the help they need and have it be paid for by insurance. On the other side, it would also open the door to games the governmental restrictions placed on other officially addictive activities.
I may be cold hearted, but the good of the many outweigh the good of the few.
 

Rowan Kaiser

New member
Dec 31, 1969
33
0
0
Smith and Jones Addiction Treatment Center?

Anyone else getting Silver Jews flashbacks? My Orc Warrior holds up its trousers with extension cords.
 

thejoshualee

New member
Mar 12, 2009
44
0
0
Playbahnosh said:
Falien said:
[huge wall of text]
First of, I don't think this addiction thing is valid for two reasons. Simply, todays young society is built around gaming and the internet as a habit, be it console, PC, arcade or whatever, much like our parents' generation was built around TV/movies...etc. Those things are not considered addictions. True, there must be some obscure medical term for people who "watch too much TV/movies...somesuch" but it's not a mainstream thing to be a TV addict, because it's so commonplace to have a television set and watch it. Unlike gambling, drugs and alcoholism, gaming doesn't destroy your life per say. It doesn't require huge wads of money to sustain, it isn't straightforwardly destroying your health and doesn't have real withdrawal symptoms. Yes, this may be a longshot, but I still consider this at least somewhat true.

On the other hand, I don't think gaming will suffer one bit even if some egghead profs decide that gaming is in fact an addiction. Just look at the gambling industry, Vegas, look at the alcohol and cigarette industry or the cocaine industry. They are going stronger than ever, despite them being labeled "addictive and dangerous".

I don't think playing video games can be put in the same pile. I think being 'addicted' to games is much like being addicted to work, or being addicted to drive a car/use public transportation. You don't really need to do these things on a daily basis, but you do anyway, to fulfill a need, in this case having money, or getting somewhere. In the case of gaming, it fulfills the need for joy and entertainment. What's so different?

Just my $0.02
I agree with your first point. The computer is fast becoming the focal point of life in the First World. In this way digital gaming is just a modern variant to what people have been doing forever. True, we have more time to do this in because life is so much more convenient now, but it's just progress. There will always be resistance to it, but it will always happen.

Your second point does have validity to it as a foreign chemical addiction is drastically different than other addictions (as mentioned in the article), but the brain IS hardwired to reward us with our own chemicals which get triggered by specific stimulus we encounter. This way, the brain trains us to seek out that which rewards us while avoiding that which punishes us (whatever those terms mean to the individual). In some people this reaction is far more radical and can lead to addictive-like behavior identical to that of a heroin addict for activities as benign as playing a video game or shopping for clothes. For those people it is very real (though the withdrawal symptoms are far less drastic). Dopamine (sp?) is just as addictive as Tobacco. The difference is your body gives it to you for free as long as you provide the stimulus that triggers your brain to release it.

Your third point... Yes Vegas is doing very well... how well would the gamboling industry be doing if it was legal in every state? How well would the tobacco industry be doing if they could advertise freely and sell smokes to the kiddies? The possible comparisons to these "what ifs" are pretty solid evidence to suggest that, yes, it would be detrimental.
 

Playbahnosh

New member
Dec 12, 2007
606
0
0
thejoshualee said:
how well would the gamboling industry be doing if it was legal in every state? How well would the tobacco industry be doing if they could advertise freely and sell smokes to the kiddies? The possible comparisons to these "what ifs" are pretty solid evidence to suggest that, yes, it would be detrimental.
I'm not American so I can't answer you first question, but here in Hungary, gambling is very much legal. Betting, poker, slots (in almost every pub), races...etc, it's all here and legal. Of course you need a permit to be allowed to have a gambling operation, but it's not illegal, casinos galore. As for tobacco and booze, people can always get their fix, it's available in every store, and the also the kids always find a way to get their drink on and their smoke on, so it's pointless. Hell, even I could get booze and smokes when I was a teenager, it was no big deal either. Drinks and cigarettes are popular not because they are advertised or not, but because it makes certain people feel better in ways other stuff can't produce. That's why.

If someone decides to ban video games, it will be the same as alcohol ban was many years ago. You know how that turned out, right?
 

thejoshualee

New member
Mar 12, 2009
44
0
0
Playbahnosh said:
I'm not American so I can't answer you first question, but here in Hungary, gambling is very much legal. Betting, poker, slots (in almost every pub), races...etc, it's all here and legal. Of course you need a permit to be allowed to have a gambling operation, but it's not illegal, casinos galore. As for tobacco and booze, people can always get their fix, it's available in every store, and the also the kids always find a way to get their drink on and their smoke on, so it's pointless. Hell, even I could get booze and smokes when I was a teenager, it was no big deal either. Drinks and cigarettes are popular not because they are advertised or not, but because it makes certain people feel better in ways other stuff can't produce. That's why.

If someone decides to ban video games, it will be the same as alcohol ban was many years ago. You know how that turned out, right?
Well, the key difference would be the fact that alcohol and tobacco are chemically addictive and have been a part of society since the beginning of human civilization. While people are selective of their brands of these products, if there was a shortage (such as prohibition) they take whatever they can get.
Video Games, if restricted, would of course find a black market, but the result would be so detrimental to the industry that it would implode on itself. Video Games just don't have the universal addictive nature of booze and tobacco (or any drug) so organized crime wouldn't be able to make a decent profit that outweighs the risk, the manufacturing of video games has to have a system in place that has education, resources and the like, even the indie developers have this system inherent in society now. Huge restrictions would collapse this because they wouldn't be profitable.
Also, because the number of people addicted to booze and smokes is so much higher than the people who can become addicted to video games (enough to break the law to play them)there just wouldn't be the customer base to justify it.

It's all a moot point though. If they make a special category for video game addiction, which would have to be the precursor for such restrictions, they would have to redefine the very nature of mental illness or disorder. I just can't see that happening.
 

Falien

New member
Nov 21, 2008
126
0
0
Playbahnosh said:
Falien said:
[huge wall of text]
Wow, reading and article in the forum for an article? Nice. I have some points Id like to discuss.

First of, I don't think this addiction thing is valid for two reasons. Simply, todays young society is built around gaming and the internet as a habit, be it console, PC, arcade or whatever, much like our parents' generation was built around TV/movies...etc. Those things are not considered addictions. True, there must be some obscure medical term for people who "watch too much TV/movies...somesuch" but it's not a mainstream thing to be a TV addict, because it's so commonplace to have a television set and watch it. Unlike gambling, drugs and alcoholism, gaming doesn't destroy your life per say. It doesn't require huge wads of money to sustain, it isn't straightforwardly destroying your health and doesn't have real withdrawal symptoms. Yes, this may be a longshot, but I still consider this at least somewhat true.

On the other hand, I don't think gaming will suffer one bit even if some egghead profs decide that gaming is in fact an addiction. Just look at the gambling industry, Vegas, look at the alcohol and cigarette industry or the cocaine industry. They are going stronger than ever, despite them being labeled "addictive and dangerous".

I don't think playing video games can be put in the same pile. I think being 'addicted' to games is much like being addicted to work, or being addicted to drive a car/use public transportation. You don't really need to do these things on a daily basis, but you do anyway, to fulfill a need, in this case having money, or getting somewhere. In the case of gaming, it fulfills the need for joy and entertainment. What's so different?

Just my $0.02
You're right, gaming itself shouldn't be considered an addiction right off the bat. It is a pasttime, a hobby, a serious art form and/or a way of life for lots of people without them being addicts, and that is how it should be. However, obsession is a human failing that, when left unchecked, can turn anything into an addiction, which is why moderation is needed. I agree that sometimes moderation, in the form of official laws and restrictions, can work adversely and actually promote the addiction it is trying to prevent, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

As I said before, I don't think videogame addiction is the same as MMOG addiction. In fact, the "videogame addiction" term is too generalized, which is why I tried to explain that, in my opinion, the real problem comes from issues associated mainly (if not exclusively) with MMOGs. Before them, videogame addiction was viewed in just the way you mentioned - the usual parent discontent with children "playing games too much", which is exactly the same with the "watching too much TV" or "listening to that rock & roll crap" arguments from the past. However, with the advent and subsequent boom in the MMOG business, the clinical cases started showing up - cases where players let themselves go, both physically and mentally.

A final point: I believe addiction is characterized by repetition of the same action, or continuous intake of the same substance, or in our case, obsession with one single game. If we accept that, gaming itself isn't an addiction, since gamers play a host of different games, from different genres, running on different hardware. However, MMOG players fit the profile, as they play what is essentially the same game for years. That's what differentiates them from the normal gaming enthusiast.
 

Playbahnosh

New member
Dec 12, 2007
606
0
0
Falien said:
A final point: I believe addiction is characterized by repetition of the same action, or continuous intake of the same substance, or in our case, obsession with one single game. If we accept that, gaming itself isn't an addiction, since gamers play a host of different games, from different genres, running on different hardware. However, MMOG players fit the profile, as they play what is essentially the same game for years. That's what differentiates them from the normal gaming enthusiast.
Interesting point, but what about fans? And fan groups? I'm a gamer and a huge one at that. I still play Diablo II and StarCraft, even nowadays... it's the same game for more than a decade now. Hell, I'm playing X3 right now (alt+tab), and I've been playing it for years. The same universe, same video game... I even have a savegame from five years earlier. Now, am I an addict then? Maybe, but not in your definition...

I'm still attending my classes in college, I still have friends I hang out with, and I still have other hobbies and stuff. Repetition in itself is not a sign of addiction. Take sports for example. If you are into some sport, say tennis, you play at least a few times a week, if you are really into it, you play an hour every day, to practice your serve...whatever. Now, every sport is based on learning through repetition, and it's the core of it, and I don't think every sportsman on Earth is an 'addict' per say...Just saying...
 

Falien

New member
Nov 21, 2008
126
0
0
Playbahnosh said:
Interesting point, but what about fans? And fan groups? I'm a gamer and a huge one at that. I still play Diablo II and StarCraft, even nowadays... it's the same game for more than a decade now. Hell, I'm playing X3 right now (alt+tab), and I've been playing it for years. The same universe, same video game... I even have a savegame from five years earlier. Now, am I an addict then? Maybe, but not in your definition...

I'm still attending my classes in college, I still have friends I hang out with, and I still have other hobbies and stuff. Repetition in itself is not a sign of addiction. Take sports for example. If you are into some sport, say tennis, you play at least a few times a week, if you are really into it, you play an hour every day, to practice your serve...whatever. Now, every sport is based on learning through repetition, and it's the core of it, and I don't think every sportsman on Earth is an 'addict' per say...Just saying...
No, I'm not saying that repetition itself constitutes addiction. Rather, when evaluating if someone is an addict, repetition is one of the symptoms they will look for. I'm not saying everyone who plays older games to this day is an addict (if I was, I'd be in trouble myself as I'm still sailing through The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker!) - but if I were to see someone spending hours every day playing the same game, ignoring or actively denying all others and displaying strange behaviour whenever he/she cannot play, I'd nominate him/her for addiction.

The ancient Greek philosopher Cleobulus said it best: "Μέτρον άριστον" = There is a perfect measure for everything. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_phrases#.CE.9C.CE.BC] I'd say that the danger of addiction presents itself whenever this perfect measure is overstepped.
 

tk1989

New member
May 20, 2008
865
0
0
Hello, my name is tk1989 and im an addict... lol.

Nah, i know what the article is on about... No doubt about it i was addicted to WoW when i played it. I dont play it anymore (thank god the university internet bans it), but i generally go back and play it every once in a while... I now have it 'under control', as in, when i go home i play it for a few weeks, but never to the same levels as before. I wasted a whole summer on that game, up to 18 hours a day for weeks...
 

olicon

New member
May 8, 2008
601
0
0
I'm wondering if addiction in general causes a chemical imbalance in the brain or not. I'm not big on psychology, and my feeble mind has always thought all psychological disorders are tied to something going physically wrong with the brain, either having chemical imbalances, or part of the brain dies off or is overactive. But is this the same as with addiction?
 

chibichibiko

New member
Sep 17, 2008
5
0
0
I agree with the clinical psychologists: video game addiction doesn't exist. The 'test cases' for addiction seem to imply causation from correlation. "wah, I had everything going for me, and then I played video games (a lot) and it all went South from there" is the general paraphrase that I read, and I find it unconvincing. Even if video game manufacturers found the perfect formula to make games more enthralling, that's merely because they've figured out a way to make any time invested feel like an accomplishment. If anyone fails out of school as a result, I'm guessing it's because school didn't feel like as much of an achievement (or its returns were too long-term, and thus weighted inappropriately at the time someone made the decision to fail out of school).

Yes, habitual or enthusiast gamers exhibit different behaviors when not in games, but that could easily be the same kind of awkwardness that anyone exhibits when placed in a social setting with which they have little camaraderie. No one touts that teenagers who play basketball all evening are addicted to it, and maybe that's only because bodies get worn out from basketball faster than bodies lose energy from sitting in front of a computer.

The fact is that what makes MMORPG's so enthralling is that they provide social prestige directly proportional to time investment. Characters become more powerful the more they are played--due to the rather goal-oriented relationships many gamers form in their social networks, time invested in a game equates to security in a social hierarchy (and for many gamers this is the most salient social group). If anyone claims to be addicted to video games, I'm convinced it's either because they weren't that invested in 'real life' to begin with--thus it was easy for a game to provide more self-esteem than 'real life'--or they find video games a convenient scapegoat for their own shortcomings.

Edit: Silly grammar goof-up.