Lawyer Predicts Gaming Win at the Supreme Court

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Lawyer Predicts Gaming Win at the Supreme Court



Videogames may be facing their gravest challenge yet in the States at the Supreme Court, but at least one lawyer thinks that the EMA stands a good chance at victory.

Back in April, the US Supreme Court agreed to hear the case [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100643-Gaming-Faces-Its-Single-Most-Important-Challenge-at-the-Supreme-Court] of "Schwarzenegger vs. EMA" - the proposed Californian law that would ban the sale of violent games to minors - a case that was dubbed the "most important challenge" to gaming by the Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA). The case just recently entered its first stages, and is set to be decided this fall.

In a bit of good news, Jomo S. Thompson at The Fine Print blog [http://jomosthompson.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/video-game-violence-and-the-first-amendment/] thinks that the Supreme Court is likely to side with the gamers thanks to the difficulty the opposition faces in defining exactly what constitutes a "violent" game.

However, while the most common argument (amongst laymen) in advocacy of games claims that they are protected under the First Amendment, Thompson points out that free speech "has never been unlimited" particularly when it comes to minors. In fact, two of the "better known exceptions" both directly involve minors:

"First, child pornography is outright censored in the United States; it is illegal to make, sell, or own, no freedom whatsoever. The sale of pornography to minors is also restricted, on the theory that while adults can choose for themselves if they can 'handle' pornography, children won't know until it's too late that something is too much for them or harmful to their well-being."

Still, Thompson thinks that those who seek to lump videogames under this same umbrella - as harmful for children who don't know better - will have a tough time convincing the SCOTUS that the relationship is causal rather than correlative. That is, they will have to get the court to believe that violent videogames cause violence, instead of merely attracting those who are predisposed towards violence in the first place. Furthermore, all the definitions thus far of what constitutes a "violent" game have been fairly broad, and "courts don't like broad terms in narrow laws."

Even if the court does side with the Californian law, however, Thompson doesn't think it will necessarily be a deathblow. Many retailers already refuse to sell M-rated games to minors of their own accord, and as he points out, the porn industry isn't exactly hamstrung by its inability to market to the underage. "The harm would be far more philosophical than actual," says Thompson - and considering that this would effectively make videogames as restricted as firearms or tobacco [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101654-When-Games-are-Sold-Like-Guns-An-Interview-with-the-ECAs-Hal-Halpin], it's not a hard statement to agree with.

We may have reasons to be confident, but that's no reason to get lazy and complacent. There's a petition for the cause [http://www.gamepolitics.com/2010/07/08/leading-game-devs-supporting-gamer-petition], so if you have a few moments, why not sign it to add just a little more weight to the debate?

(GamePolitics [http://jomosthompson.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/video-game-violence-and-the-first-amendment/])

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uppitycracker

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Am I the only one that immediately read the lawyers last name, and thought "oh shi-" before realizing it wasn't him?

And unfortunately, on topic, there are already too many white-collar ignorant individuals that think violent video games do lead to violent acts, thanks to a few morons in the media. As much as I want to believe otherwise, I am convinced that this will end up passing. Please prove me wrong, Supreme Court. Please.
 

jabrwock

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uppitycracker said:
Am I the only one that immediately read the lawyers last name, and thought "oh shi-" before realizing it wasn't him?
Ditto, until I read more and realized he wasn't a crazy loon frothing at the mouth about how everyone's out to get him. ;)
 

SalamanderJoe

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Sorry? Arnie wants to ban violent video games...and actor who has appeared in some of the biggest violent films, as well as games that tie in with them. Riiiight...anyway I can't see this being too hard-hitting. The amount of games that are bought that I have had to serve are by parents with their kids by their sides.

I mean my co-worker got handed a copy of Gears of War 2 by a 15ish year old. He then passed it to the parent saying, 'you better hand me this', and carried on with the transaction. I remember actually refusing to allow a 14ish year old Modern Warfare 2, and then got slagged off by his Dad a few seconds later and left. He came back in an hour 'alone' and bought a copy of (surprise surprise) Modern Warfare 2...
 

Woodsey

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"the proposed Californian law that would ban the sale of violent games to minors"

So this isn't only games that are rated (to the equivalent of, I don't know American ratings) 15+ and 18+, but anything deemed to contain violence?
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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Woodsey said:
"the proposed Californian law that would ban the sale of violent games to minors"

So this isn't only games that are rated (to the equivalent of, I don't know American ratings) 15+ and 18+, but anything deemed to contain violence?
Well, therein lies the whole problem of the "violent" definition that I think he was talking about.
 

Jared

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Jul 14, 2009
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Here is hoping all goes well for gamers...I am totally with gamesn ot being sold to wrong age groups...but, lets not be like Australia
 

Denmarkian

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If this passes, it'll be real funny to see the return of curtained "adult" sections in retail stores.

Hell, I'd be happy to start a business that sells only stuff legal for purchase by those above the age of 21; Cigarettes, booze, pornography, and soon M-rated videogames.

I think if there's enough of a market for it, we might even see the development of "Mature" content stories that are actually interesting!

I mean, what are R-rated movies lately? Movies that resemble reality the closest. Characters have flaws; violence is brutal; there are no true heroes or villains, there's an actual moral gray area in the motivations for lots of characters.

I relish the possibility of playing a deep psychological thriller game akin to "The Astronaut's Wife"

Or wandering through a grotesque steampunk fantasy world like Bas-Lag in China Mieville's Perdido Street Station, The Scar, and Iron Council.

Maybe this could be the next step necessary to bring so-called "kid's stuff" like video games and comic books into the wider audience that movies, books, and television occupy.
 

Woodsey

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John Funk said:
Woodsey said:
"the proposed Californian law that would ban the sale of violent games to minors"

So this isn't only games that are rated (to the equivalent of, I don't know American ratings) 15+ and 18+, but anything deemed to contain violence?
Well, therein lies the whole problem of the "violent" definition that I think he was talking about.
OK.

My point was, you get ID'd (or, you're supposed to at least) in the UK when buying a 15 or 18 game - the 15 sometimes but not always. If that were the case, then I wouldn't see a problem. Now I can see what the fuss is about.

Everyone got their pitchforks at the ready?
 

Kwaren

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Jul 10, 2009
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uppitycracker said:
Am I the only one that immediately read the lawyers last name, and thought "oh shi-" before realizing it wasn't him?

And unfortunately, on topic, there are already too many white-collar ignorant individuals that think violent video games do lead to violent acts, thanks to a few morons in the media. As much as I want to believe otherwise, I am convinced that this will end up passing. Please prove me wrong, Supreme Court. Please.
I had the same reaction.

I hope for a gaming victory here too.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Woodsey said:
My point was, you get ID'd (or, you're supposed to at least) in the UK when buying a 15 or 18 game - the 15 sometimes but not always. If that were the case, then I wouldn't see a problem. Now I can see what the fuss is about.
The issue is not that people would have to show ID to purchase M-rated games. It's that stores shouldn't be legally obligated to only sell these products to adults. Making that legal obligation means that video games are treated differently than books, movies, and music by the legal system. The implication being that video games affect the consumer in some significantly different way.

Basically, if it's not illegal to sell a copy of District 9 to a 10-year-old why should it be illegal to sell a copy of God of War 3 to them?

That's my issue with this farce of a law anyway.
 

Woodsey

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Eldritch Warlord said:
Woodsey said:
My point was, you get ID'd (or, you're supposed to at least) in the UK when buying a 15 or 18 game - the 15 sometimes but not always. If that were the case, then I wouldn't see a problem. Now I can see what the fuss is about.
The issue is not that people would have to show ID to purchase M-rated games. It's that stores shouldn't be legally obligated to only sell these products to adults. Making that legal obligation means that video games are treated differently than books, movies, and music by the legal system. The implication being that video games affect the consumer in some significantly different way.

Basically, if it's not illegal to sell a copy of District 9 to a 10-year-old why should it be illegal to sell a copy of God of War 3 to them?

That's my issue with this farce of a law anyway.
Well that's just confusing; here in the UK it's illegal to sell either to a 10-year-old, why is not illegal to sell something like District 9 to a 10-year-old?