Playdom Designer Urges Social Devs to Make "Unanticipated Golden Poo"

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Playdom Designer Urges Social Devs to Make "Unanticipated Golden Poo"


Game designer and former Escapist columnist Scott Jon Siegel challenged his fellow designers to "stop pretending social games are beneath you," saying that preconceived notions about social gaming are the biggest obstacle to making great social games.

If we put together a list of common gamer preconceptions about social games, it probably wouldn't be very complimentary. Boring, shallow, primitive and invasion of privacy all leap to mind, and it's hard to deny that for every cool, original title released, there are 100 dull derivatives all clamoring for attention. But is that an inherent flaw in the genre, or simply a shortcoming in how it's approached?

Siegel, now a designer with Cow Clicker [http://www.playdom.com/] to demonstrate how interesting things can happen once you abandon conventional limitations and throw caution to the wind.

Cow Clicker, for those unfamiliar with it, is "a Facebook [http://www.facebook.com] game about Facebook games" in which players are given a cow they can click. Six hours later, they can click again; clicking earns clicks and players can use Cow Clicker currency called "mooney" to buy "premium" cows. You can share your cow clicking in your Facebook feed and click on friends' cows in theirs. It was intended to be a satirical look at the FarmVille style of gaming that's so popular on Facebook, but something unexpected happened: people liked it.

"The ridiculous thing is, without even trying hard Ian actually made a moderately successful and compelling game," Siegel said. "At its height, Cow Clicker had 24,000 Monthly Active Users, though it's since dropped to around 13,000. But the remarkable thing is his DAU/MAU - a common metric for measuring player retention - has been going up."

He related a story about a writing professor who encouraged his class to write bad fiction, a project which actually resulted in some "interesting things" because the writers were freed from the usual constraints and expectations of what good writing should be. He said the same lesson could be learned by game designers, pointing out that after making "incredibly earnest games for years," Bogost set out to make something terrible and ended up with tens of thousands of players within a month of a release that had absolutely no fanfare at all. "Unanticipated golden poo," he described it.

The lesson? Cast off your chains of oppression! Or, possibly, just start giving the social game genre a little bit of respect. "Maybe the indie community has its ironic necktie on too tight," he said. "Maybe some of the most playful people in our industry are so busy feeling like they should feel opposed to games on social networks that they're not willing to try being playful."

Source: Develop [http://www.develop-online.net/news/36363/Stop-pretending-social-games-are-beneath-you?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+developmag%2Fifbh+%28Develop%29]


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Feb 13, 2008
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Ooh, I'm gonna be shot for this one.

Does this mean Minecraft is some of that unanticipated golden poo? It sure fits the model of what he's talking about.
 

The Random One

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May 29, 2008
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*nervously loosens ironic tie*

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Does this mean Minecraft is some of that unanticipated golden poo? It sure fits the model of what he's talking about.
I guess it depends on what you define as 'poo'. But I doubt the guy who made Minecraft thought it was easy to make, or terrible.
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
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Honestly? I honestly doubt that games much more complex than Farmville will ever get 500,000+ active players in the long term. Not even Call of Duty can do that.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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The Random One said:
*nervously loosens ironic tie*

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Does this mean Minecraft is some of that unanticipated golden poo? It sure fits the model of what he's talking about.
I guess it depends on what you define as 'poo'. But I doubt the guy who made Minecraft thought it was easy to make, or terrible.
Well, it seems to be defined as something "no-one wants", and the idea of a building cubes game for adults does seem, on paper, to be "poo".
Anticipated? Not really...I don't think even Notch thought it would be this taken up with only word of mouth.
And Golden? How many other games do the Escapist have a server for that aren't even in alpha yet?
 

Kinguendo

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I cant help but see the growth of social gaming as a pain in my ass personally, at a party or something and talking to someone and somehow the fact you are a gamer comes up and they say "Oh really? Me too. Have you played FacebookVille?". I can tell you now, someones feelings will be hurt and they wont be mine.

Also, I hope big gaming companies dont go into casual gaming development... that would be sad, like seeing a big movie star hosting a local news station completely seriously without a hint of sarcasm. With the sarcasm that would be funny, without it its... pretty bad.
 

SimuLord

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Aug 20, 2008
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Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.

Right now it's just an MLM/pyramid/spam-your-friends scheme by another name, which is why you're getting the backlash. Make it something interesting and the viral marketing will take care of itself. You can't force word of mouth.
 

Thurston

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I think this is good advice. By stepping outside our usual constrainsts and preconceptions, some fun things can happen.

Even if it's a failure, it's a necessary step to the path of greatness. You can learn something from it.

Like to write hard-hitting character dramas in short story form? Try to write sappy romance.

Trying to concept another brown-grey shooter? Make something ridiculous, like Kitty-Ninja-Shopper!

Hmmm... I like that last one!

Write a fanfic featuring your least favourite, but prominent character in the story.

Don't like poetry? Write an ode, a quatraine, a haiku, and a ten verse heroic couplet-style! I dare ya!

Do your laundry at home? Do it at 2 in the morning at the corner laundry.
 

SimuLord

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RAKtheUndead said:
SimuLord said:
Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.
The problem with this is that it makes sense, and people jumping onto bandwagons don't typically take sense into account.
Gaming is the playground of the marketing department, which is the single greatest obstacle standing in its way of ever becoming an art form.

Which only further underscores the fact that we ought to get anyone who has the word "marketing" anywhere on his or her business card, put them all on a spaceship, and shoot said spaceship directly into the sun. Earth would be a better place for it.
 

CitySquirrel

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RAKtheUndead said:
SimuLord said:
Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.
The problem with this is that it makes sense, and people jumping onto bandwagons don't typically take sense into account.
Actually, the problem with this is that Facebook doesn't make much sense as a delivery system unless you are hoping to take advantage of the social aspect. I mean, you could just make it a regular PC game and sell it on Steam, or a console game via DS and PSP. So, the only reason to use Facebook as a platform is FOR the social aspect.
 

Sebenko

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Stop making good games! Make piles of shit!

No, you don't want to create. no-one in the industry wants to create, Activision has proven that.
 

SimuLord

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CitySquirrel said:
RAKtheUndead said:
SimuLord said:
Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.
The problem with this is that it makes sense, and people jumping onto bandwagons don't typically take sense into account.
Actually, the problem with this is that Facebook doesn't make much sense as a delivery system unless you are hoping to take advantage of the social aspect. I mean, you could just make it a regular PC game and sell it on Steam, or a console game via DS and PSP. So, the only reason to use Facebook as a platform is FOR the social aspect.
Have you SEEN Facebook's installed user base? You can't tell me there's not potential to be found in a platform that has robust application support and over 150 million users. That's a LOT of people, and there's a big untapped market that deserves to be treated like more than a bored housewife Farmville Club.
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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Oh man, Cow Clicker (...Click Your Cow!) just cracks me up whenever I see it mentioned. That a satirical Facebook game designed entirely to point out just how terrible other Facebook games are somehow ended up actually being popular just makes the entire concept even more hysterical than I already thought it was, heh.
 

Gjarble

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SimuLord said:
CitySquirrel said:
RAKtheUndead said:
SimuLord said:
Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.
The problem with this is that it makes sense, and people jumping onto bandwagons don't typically take sense into account.
Actually, the problem with this is that Facebook doesn't make much sense as a delivery system unless you are hoping to take advantage of the social aspect. I mean, you could just make it a regular PC game and sell it on Steam, or a console game via DS and PSP. So, the only reason to use Facebook as a platform is FOR the social aspect.
Have you SEEN Facebook's installed user base? You can't tell me there's not potential to be found in a platform that has robust application support and over 150 million users. That's a LOT of people, and there's a big untapped market that deserves to be treated like more than a bored housewife Farmville Club.
True, but the problem is that most of those 150 million won't be interested in any games (Facebook, after all, exists for very different and much less niche-y reasons), and the vast majority won't like the non-Farmvillian variety. Those that are interested in "normal" games already HAVE Steam, other PC games, consoles, or whatever, and these services are much more tailored to the gaming experience. The only way to get people outside the "gamer culture" excited about games is to change the very nature of those games, as demonstrated by PopCap, Zynga, and to some extent, Nintendo. Thus, treating Facebook like any other platform won't make those games TRULY reach a significantly higher number of people. The only argument in favor of using Facebook over other platforms that makes any sense (aside from the obvious social capabilities) is that more gamers (probably) happen to use Facebook than any one traditional delivery platform (yay format wars?). Whether or not this makes it a good thing to distribute on Facebook depends on the person... I already have a disdain for Facebook in general and don't know how I feel about making it a "universal constant" for gamers, but my objections fall outside the scope of this debate.
 

ibogost

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Not that it matters, but at its height Cow Clicker had 50,000 MAUs, not 24,000. Which makes it twice as awful.
 

CitySquirrel

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SimuLord said:
Have you SEEN Facebook's installed user base? You can't tell me there's not potential to be found in a platform that has robust application support and over 150 million users. That's a LOT of people, and there's a big untapped market that deserves to be treated like more than a bored housewife Farmville Club.
I guess... although most of my friends look down on facebook games... if it is on facebook it can't be any good. So the user base is actually not 150 million... it is that minus all the people who think it is foolish, silly, or a waste of time. Heck, I just tried the new Square-Enix facebook game and told my friend (who likes a lot of square-enix games) about it and his response was "does it suck?" He heard "square-enix" and "facebook" and it was the facebook part that won out... he can't imagine it might be fun.

Plus, evidence would suggest that the largest number of potential users do go for things like farmville. So maybe that is what is needed to be successful? The games I play are ones I can do while I want a tv show... they don't take a lot of thought, it just keeps me busy while I do other things. So, someone like me will always gravitate to those over the action based ones. (for reference, feel free to look at my gamer card to see what I play off facebook)
 

Timbydude

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Jul 15, 2009
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Andy Chalk said:
Cow Clicker, for those unfamiliar with it, is "a Facebook [http://www.facebook.com] game about Facebook games" in which players are given a cow they can click. Six hours later, they can click again; clicking earns clicks and players can use Cow Clicker currency called "mooney" to buy "premium" cows. You can share your cow clicking in your Facebook feed and click on friends' cows in theirs. It was intended to be a satirical look at the FarmVille style of gaming that's so popular on Facebook, but something unexpected happened: people liked it.
What? That's completely false. The reason people played Cow Clicker was because it was a silly parody of Farmville. You literally click a cow. Once every six hours. Did...did he play that game?

If that's a "good" social game, then we're in deep trouble.
 

Michael O'Hair

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Jul 29, 2010
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Cow Clicker, for those unfamiliar with it, is "a Facebook game about Facebook games" in which players are given a cow they can click. Six hours later, they can click again; clicking earns clicks and players can use Cow Clicker currency called "mooney" to buy "premium" cows. You can share your cow clicking in your Facebook feed and click on friends' cows in theirs. It was intended to be a satirical look at the FarmVille style of gaming that's so popular on Facebook, but something unexpected happened: people liked it.
Who are these people? Additionally, forcing people who have undergone lobotomies to play a Facebook game is horribly cruel.

Current social games are the electronic equivalents of the dippy bird or newtons cradles that office workers stare at when they are bored. Social games will earn the respect they think they deserve when they produce the same experiences garnered from what we currently call games; habit-forming addiction and dependency is not enough. Until that time social games will be what people play when they can't play anything better than Solitaire.
 

lumenadducere

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SimuLord said:
Or maybe, just maybe, treat Facebook as a delivery platform just like other game platforms rather than some special new, innovative "social gaming" platform.

Make good games, games you'd be proud as a developer to have on a DS or a PSP and that you think gamers would buy for that platform, then distribute via Facebook and create something compelling for the microtransaction model.

Right now it's just an MLM/pyramid/spam-your-friends scheme by another name, which is why you're getting the backlash. Make it something interesting and the viral marketing will take care of itself. You can't force word of mouth.
Took the words out of my mouth. This is why it's not getting attention from the more traditional game developers. I'm not dismissing the potential impact and fiscal rewards of a social game, but the fact that right now they're basically designed to be psychologically addicting so they can make some money and that their entire structure revolves around that makes "social gaming" laughable. Click something, watch the bar go up, wait for the timer to tick down, and then click a few more times. Profits aside, why that's laudable is beyond me.

You want to be taken seriously as a social game dev? Make something that's worth being taken seriously.