3D Movies Might Not Be As Bad As Roger Ebert Claims

vansau

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May 25, 2010
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3D Movies Might Not Be As Bad As Roger Ebert Claims



It turns out that Roger Ebert's arguments against 3D movies might not be scientifically sound.

Oh, Roger Ebert, you adorably outspoken thing, you. Hot on the heels of <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107216-Filmmaker-Says-Human-Brain-Not-Suited-for-3D>Ebert's journal post citing science proves our brains can't handle 3D, a counter-argument (also based on science) has now popped up. If the argument's to be believed, the science behind Ebert's claims isn't all that accurate.

Slate's Science Editor Dan Engber basically picks apart the arguments with enthusiasm. Aside from pointing out the bad science involved with Ebert's argument, Engber also points out that the aging film critic has been on a decades-long crusade against 3D movies. But it's the scientific arguments that are quite interesting.

According to Ebert, the 3-D effect brings in an "artificial" third dimension, which doesn't serve to make a movie any more realistic. In fact, he says, it makes an image seem less real, since under normal circumstances "we do not perceive parts of our vision dislodging themselves from the rest and leaping at us." Here he appears to be confusing cheesy, pop-out effects (which are used judiciously in the better-and more recent-films) with the medium as a whole. Yes, some 3-D movies do contain these gimmicks, but others do not.

In any case, it's not clear to me why one depth cue might be deemed artificial and unnecessary, while others are just fine. After all, a regular old 2-D movie carries its own set of visual guidelines for understanding spatial relationships. Objects in the foreground block our vision of what's behind them. Shading and texture tell us about the three-dimensional shape of an object on the screen. Ebert would certainly agree that you don't need to watch the famous sequence from Dial M for Murder in its original 3-D to understand that Anthony Dawson is creeping up behind Grace Kelly, and that he's going to lift a stocking over her head to strangle her. Yet he's apoplectic over the thought of adding one more depth cue into the mix.

With 3-D cinema, we still have occlusion and shading and texture-and we're still missing motion parallax-but now we get the added benefit of binocular disparity. We don't need that extra information to see that Grace Kelly's killer is lurking behind her, but it adds, at the very least, clarity and precision to the scene. Exactly what part of that is "artificial"? As it happens, the 3-D version of Dial M also gives us something more: When Kelly falls across the desk, her hand reaches through the stereo window, as if imploring the audience for help. It doesn't make us jump out of the way like Ebert's Homo habilis. It draws us into the action.

Engber's arguments make for fascinating reading, and they do an excellent job of shredding Ebert's arguments. That said, Engber doesn't say that 3D filmmaking is always for the best, and even acknowledges how many filmmakers use the technique as a gimmick. Personally, I plan to continue loathing 3D movies due to the inflated ticket prices and dim colors, but at least I don't have to worry about my brain not being able to process the style.

Source: <a href=http://www.slate.com/id/2282376/pagenum/all/#p2>Slate via <a href=http://io9.com/5743100/debunking-the-pseudoscience-behind-the-3d-cant-work-myth>io9

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mad825

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Mar 28, 2010
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It was rather illogical of him to make such a claim even though there is nothing revolutionary overpowering for the brain....still the picture is misleading, it suggest there is some actual depth to Stereoscopy.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Nov 9, 2008
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And yet I still don't want 3D films. Lack of any real benefit and adding headaches into the mix kinda ruins things for me.
 

WilliamRLBaker

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I've tried viewing 3d for a long time, red and blue glasses, shutter, polarized...and they have never worked for me for some reason even at 20/20 vision its just never worked for me and the very attempnt gives me eye strain and headaches if I try to watch for too long.

as for the science I don't know but I consider Pseudo 3d to be a giant rip off, and while my wishes won't come true that it dies away *with sanctum comming out a movie that doesn't need 3d* I'm just waiting for the day when some useless 3d is thrown onto a romantic comedy or something so they can draw in the guillible crowd, its at that time I'll know I won't be going to theaters ever again.
 

joebthegreat

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Nov 23, 2010
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What's the point of this article?

"Ebert was wrong! Science! 3D movies are still bad!"

Huh?

I would argue, however, that every image you EVER see is two dimensional, because that's the only way your eyes can make it. You can perceive a third dimension through visual clues and the like.

Relative to my own vision, that object that looks really distant is actually slightly higher than the other object that looks closer, and is much smaller (from my own personal knowledge, having been close to said object). I could point out every pixel of my own personal vision and the only thing that would be different on them would be their position up and down, and their position left and right.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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I was willing to give this a go until I saw it was from Slate.

Now I can just treat it with the contempt it deserves. Mainly because it attacks Ebert's claims, rather than disproves them. Engber states things as if they're true rather than proving them, and stands in direct contradiction to what others have already said.

I mean, there's some nice weasel words in there ("Some", "Others") but binocular disparity or not, there's still that uncanny valley there and THAT is what causes the problems. We know it's there, so our brain isn't fooled. The brain and the eyes contradicting is what causes the problems, not binocular vs. monocular.
 

spartan231490

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Jan 14, 2010
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Sebenko said:
Doesn't mean it's not a waste of money, though. doesn't suck.
More or less this. Weather or not our brains can handle it, it doesn't provide any extras that can't be seen without it, so why should I pay more for it. Especially considering the headache-inducing glasses, the poor colors, and the gimmicky nature of the whole thing.
 

Low Key

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May 7, 2009
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I'm taking my girl to see Tron 3D on saturday. Thanks for the buzzkill, Escapist.
 

Jumplion

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Mar 10, 2008
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I am beginning to notice Ebert's stance on things now. This is precisely why I never really took his opinion to account when he stated why "Video Games can never be art" or whatever he revised it to. While I respect the man as a critic, sometimes he just spouts utter nonsense and puts an act of pseudointellectualism (har har, oh the hypocrisy :p) just to prove that he's right and everyone else is wrong.

He's been getting on my nerves recently.
 

KeyMaster45

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Jun 16, 2008
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I don't typically agree with Ebert on most things, in fact I think he's got an utterly horrible taste in movies. I will, however, be more than happy to join him in his crusade against 3D because I'm seriously sick of it being in every big name film that comes out. Hollywood needs to get it through it's head that 3D is no the future of movies, but I suppose as long as the money continues to flow in surplus they don't really give a damn.
 

Jaime_Wolf

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Jul 17, 2009
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The stupidity never ends.

Ebert bases all of his opinions off of cheesy gimmicks. His "science" is a joke and I'm surprised anyone's taken it seriously at all.

This is equally awkward. Stereoscopic vision is a TINY depth cue. Maybe you haven't noticed, but your eyes are pretty fucking close together. The depth cues from stereoscopic vision are very subtle and virtually nonexistent at the distances and scales we're talking about while viewing movie screens. Lighting and occlusion are overwhelmingly more important depth cues for humans. We need to stop buying into this myth too: it results in damaging beliefs like the assumption that one-eyed people are extremely clumsy or that it takes years of recovery to be able to do things like catch a ball with only one eye. Close one eye, try to catch a ball. If you're even remotely coordinated, it won't prove too hard. The ONLY thing stereoscopic vision has a big impact on is really close, really small differentiation like trying to thread a needle, which is hard even WITH two eyes.

All that aside, I enjoy non-gimmick 3d movies. I thought Tron and especially Avatar (aside from that stupid moment with the arrow) made great use of it and both were much more fun thanks to it. Same goes even moreso for the animated movies I've seen in 3d. It's a nice reason to justify going to a theatre instead of waiting for it to come out on DVD and it's fun. The "it's not realistic" bandwagon is just that, a bandwagon. Try deciding for yourself whether you like it rather than parroting someone else's views about why it should strain your eyes/brain, why it degrades the visual experience, or why it is or isn't realistic.

TL;DR: If I wanted to see the most realistic picture possible, I'd open the fucking door and go outside. I go to movies to be entertained.

Low Key said:
Fronzel said:
Low Key said:
I'm taking my girl to see Tron 3D on saturday. Thanks for the buzzkill, Escapist.
If you're lucky, it'll rain, too.
I wish it was warm enough here to rain.
I actually liked Tron, especially in 3d. Given the horrible things people were saying about it, I expected to be incredibly disappointed. It's no Citizen Kane, but it's fun, incredibly stylish, and cheesy in all the right ways. In hindsight, I should never have listened to all of the reviews that I knew would involve so many rose-coloured glasses.
 

Georgie_Leech

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Nov 10, 2009
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joebthegreat said:
What's the point of this article?

"Ebert was wrong! Science! 3D movies are still bad!"

Huh?

I would argue, however, that every image you EVER see is two dimensional, because that's the only way your eyes can make it. You can perceive a third dimension through visual clues and the like.

Relative to my own vision, that object that looks really distant is actually slightly higher than the other object that looks closer, and is much smaller (from my own personal knowledge, having been close to said object). I could point out every pixel of my own personal vision and the only thing that would be different on them would be their position up and down, and their position left and right.
In point of fact, the brain does indeed take two slightly different images that each eye sees and interprets them to give you a sense of depth, or in short, to see a Third Dimension. You can test this yourself; take something that looks like a dartboard, lay it on the bround, and drop small objects on it, moving in between drops. With both eyes, it's quite easy to land the objects on or at least near the bullseye, while with one eye closed, it's suddenly incredibly difficult
 

zaphod121

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Nov 15, 2010
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A good cinematographer can give you a 3D like picture without having to charge me extra to wear lame glasses and see a darker image.

Besides Avatar I haven't seen a decent 3D movie yet. The film makers will kill 3D before it ever has a chance to take off.
 

sunburst

Media Snob
Mar 19, 2010
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Am I missing something? Engber doesn't make any scientific arguments. He just goes on and on about how Ebert is biased and 3D is great. Roger Ebert probably is biased against 3D and doesn't want to give it a chance. And 3D can do some interesting things within the film industry. But that's largely irrelevant to the convergence/focus issue which is where the "science" comes in. On that point, he more or less just gives up. His only response is that there may be something else giving everyone headaches instead and we can adapt if we watch 20+ 3D films a year. Humans can adapt to pretty much anything, much to any dieter's dismay, if we force ourselves to do it enough. 3D viewing is likely no different.

On everything else, he pretty much agrees with Murch's email. 3D still has a lot of problems but most of them can probably be fixed eventually.
 
Oct 14, 2010
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Jumplion said:
I am beginning to notice Ebert's stance on things now. This is precisely why I never really took his opinion to account when he stated why "Video Games can never be art" or whatever he revised it to. While I respect the man as a critic, sometimes he just spouts utter nonsense and puts an act of pseudointellectualism (har har, oh the hypocrisy :p) just to prove that he's right and everyone else is wrong.

He's been getting on my nerves recently.
It's Roger Ebert's lawn; we're just yelled at to get off it.