How to Read Movie Criticism
- Thread starter MovieBob
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And finally, Bob says something that I can agree with. This article at least, was something worth reading.
Although I know I never feel bad about telling people to skip something that I absolutely hated, just because I feel they'll be completely wasting their time if they watch it.
Although I know I never feel bad about telling people to skip something that I absolutely hated, just because I feel they'll be completely wasting their time if they watch it.
Good article, I couldn't agree more with your points about Metacritic/Rotten Tomatoes. I do use the sites, but mostly as an easy way to look up multiple reviews of something I'm interested in.
My normal technique goes something like this - read at least one each of the most positive and negative reviews, then check out the sites I tend to find myself agreeing with the most. I can usually put together a decent opinion of how I'm going to react to something that way.
My normal technique goes something like this - read at least one each of the most positive and negative reviews, then check out the sites I tend to find myself agreeing with the most. I can usually put together a decent opinion of how I'm going to react to something that way.
While I disagree with a lot you say in these columns and shows, one thing I am going to support you with till I can no longer breathe is your last point in this article.
A few weeks ago I finished watching The Wild Hunt and personally found it a rather fun movie about insane LARPers (I mean more insane than usual). So I tell it to a friend of mine, explain to her what it's about in general and what I thought of it...to which her first reply was "It's 6,1 on IMDB so it's probably average".
Whenever someone says something like that - countering a personal opinion with a number it makes me want to strangle them. Numbers don't mean anything. Numbers can not be used to express opinions or complex experiences.
[/rant]
Now with that out of the way and for the rest of the article: I personally have a lot of problem with some of the stuff critics say. To me in order for someone to be truly qualified to criticize something, they should have practical knowledge of it. Theoretical knowledge is nice, sure, but until you actually go write a book of fiction or direct a movie I really don't think one should demand that their personal opinions are anything else but just that - personal opinions.
Sorry Bob, but just watching a lot of movies does not make you qualified to dissect them. It makes you more qualified than most people, sure. But just looking a lot at something is not the same as actually making it.
P.S. Why am I even writing all this crap when it will just get burred in the pile of "lol awesome" or "you suck" comments that always seem to clog up threads on the internet?
A few weeks ago I finished watching The Wild Hunt and personally found it a rather fun movie about insane LARPers (I mean more insane than usual). So I tell it to a friend of mine, explain to her what it's about in general and what I thought of it...to which her first reply was "It's 6,1 on IMDB so it's probably average".
Whenever someone says something like that - countering a personal opinion with a number it makes me want to strangle them. Numbers don't mean anything. Numbers can not be used to express opinions or complex experiences.
[/rant]
Now with that out of the way and for the rest of the article: I personally have a lot of problem with some of the stuff critics say. To me in order for someone to be truly qualified to criticize something, they should have practical knowledge of it. Theoretical knowledge is nice, sure, but until you actually go write a book of fiction or direct a movie I really don't think one should demand that their personal opinions are anything else but just that - personal opinions.
Sorry Bob, but just watching a lot of movies does not make you qualified to dissect them. It makes you more qualified than most people, sure. But just looking a lot at something is not the same as actually making it.
P.S. Why am I even writing all this crap when it will just get burred in the pile of "lol awesome" or "you suck" comments that always seem to clog up threads on the internet?
Couldn't agree more on this, Bob. This is actually one of the reasons that I like Armond White (though he's generally hated on the Internet because he "ruined" perfect Tomatometer scores), as his critiques don't read like they're trying to be consumer reports. The whole 'X out of 5'/'X Stars' line of logic in reviews is useless, and the Tomatometer and the Netflix user reviews system tend to be, on the whole, an extension of that fallacy.
This is a mistake on the part of the reader. Numerical scores are, in my opinion, meant to be interpreted as a scale of how much the critic would recommend the product, with 1 indicating a very very select audience and 10 being pretty much everyone. The fact people choose to interpret review scores as absolute measures of a products quality is absurd because it implies the existence of a perfect product.Jenx said:
Now, I thought Hanna was boring because she was basically invincible.
[ul][li]A 15 year old girl is overpowering adult Marines[/li]
[li]she escapes from a CIA dungeon she's never been to before[/li]
[li]she walks across the Moroccan desert barefoot[/li]
[li]The tourist adults aren't more perturbed that she has no money and no Passport[/li]
[li]Eric Bana eschews his snowcoat while walking to the coast, just to put it into a backpack...[/li]
[li]...so he can swim from the Arctic Circle to Europe. WTF[/li]
[li]And then suits from the CIA, who have guns, attempt apprehension via fist-fight - are they retarded?[/li][/ul]
The implausibilities pile up and I'm just sitting stunned in my seat. The movie was stupid.
[ul][li]A 15 year old girl is overpowering adult Marines[/li]
[li]she escapes from a CIA dungeon she's never been to before[/li]
[li]she walks across the Moroccan desert barefoot[/li]
[li]The tourist adults aren't more perturbed that she has no money and no Passport[/li]
[li]Eric Bana eschews his snowcoat while walking to the coast, just to put it into a backpack...[/li]
[li]...so he can swim from the Arctic Circle to Europe. WTF[/li]
[li]And then suits from the CIA, who have guns, attempt apprehension via fist-fight - are they retarded?[/li][/ul]
The implausibilities pile up and I'm just sitting stunned in my seat. The movie was stupid.
I wouldn't say objectivity is *impossible* Bob. I'd say that it's possible to be objective about the things for which there are and can be an objective standard of some kind, questions about things like "is the style consistent"? and "is the story meaningful", etc. I've seen lots of critics (yourself included!) who can cheerfully say "I think this movie is dreadful, but large parts of it were well done, at least".
Granted, this academic stuff doesn't really tell you whether a movie is "worth seeing" (I've enjoyed several movies that were pure fluff, yet detested a few that were incredibly well-done, and yet I'm glad I saw BOTH of them even though the latter type almost made me physically ill). I determine "worth seeing" less as "I'll definitely enjoy it" and more as "I'll be glad I saw it with my own eyes and will be able to add it to the sum total of my experience". I'm glad I went to see the Atlas Shrugged movie, for instance, even though it WAS boring.
Granted, this academic stuff doesn't really tell you whether a movie is "worth seeing" (I've enjoyed several movies that were pure fluff, yet detested a few that were incredibly well-done, and yet I'm glad I saw BOTH of them even though the latter type almost made me physically ill). I determine "worth seeing" less as "I'll definitely enjoy it" and more as "I'll be glad I saw it with my own eyes and will be able to add it to the sum total of my experience". I'm glad I went to see the Atlas Shrugged movie, for instance, even though it WAS boring.
I find certain critics I tend to agree with for certain kinds of films, and go with that. For example, Roger Ebert and I tend to agree on everything from drama to comedy to action, but he absolutely despises the superhero genre (Spiderman 2 is the exception that proves the rule). Due to that, I tend to ignore him on these counts and find other critics for this (Unfortunately Bob, you're not that guy, as we completely disagree on Zack Snyder and as follows, tastes for "fanboy" films). As $11 is a lot of money now, I will heavily research a film, OR if a large amount of friends are going I know I'll at least have a worthwhile time there.
I almost always disagree with metacritic and rotten tomatoes, as that's just the general zeitgeist of specific critics. The problem with those and, say, imdb user reviews is that users really only post when they're passionate about a piece. Why? It's not their job. So either they really hate it, or really, really, really love it. Because of this user review scores tend to skew in the negative. It's a similar experience on Amazon and Yelp.
Still, like any medium, we shouldn't be afraid to analyze and share our opinions. We should be critiquing on these sites and clearly stating why on these forums. This way people can actually read our opinion of a piece rather than just depend on an arbitrary number or letter grade.
I almost always disagree with metacritic and rotten tomatoes, as that's just the general zeitgeist of specific critics. The problem with those and, say, imdb user reviews is that users really only post when they're passionate about a piece. Why? It's not their job. So either they really hate it, or really, really, really love it. Because of this user review scores tend to skew in the negative. It's a similar experience on Amazon and Yelp.
Still, like any medium, we shouldn't be afraid to analyze and share our opinions. We should be critiquing on these sites and clearly stating why on these forums. This way people can actually read our opinion of a piece rather than just depend on an arbitrary number or letter grade.
Yes, yes, yes!
I think this provides some insight to my own condition as well, as I am finding myself drawn towards reviews of Portal 2 despite my own opinion of the game being entirely cemented, and I was wondering why. I think I understand now:
I think this provides some insight to my own condition as well, as I am finding myself drawn towards reviews of Portal 2 despite my own opinion of the game being entirely cemented, and I was wondering why. I think I understand now:
MovieBob said:
This is why I like count downs and favourite lists like Lisa Foiles. Its not so much about deciding TO or NOT TO buy something, its about finding out more. Take this weeks Extra Credits for example.
I have seen loads of interesting things on the Escapist, not all of which I want any part of.
I have seen loads of interesting things on the Escapist, not all of which I want any part of.
I don't often agree with you, Bob, but this time I do. The common idea of film criticism- telling you if you need to see a movie or not- is a lie since the opinions of a critic doesn't matter. The only opinion that really matters is your own. Instead, I like to look at film criticm as a tool for discussion. This is why favorite critics (besides Roger Ebert) are the guys from /film or spill.com. Sure I may not agree with their opinion a lot of the time, but it's the really feeling of friendship and comraderie that make what they have to say (especially if they disagree with eachother) more interesting than the average critics. There are also some critics on youtube that I really enjoy simply because they are willing to respond to your opinions via youtube or facebook.