About Critics (Part II)
- Thread starter MovieBob
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While I don't agree with your opinions on many movies Bob, I cannot fault your reasoning. I guess it all comes down to a matter of perception of things and like your Ratatouille comment, individual emotional connections. And as long as you can defend your opinion, more power to ya.
I recall someone commenting on Machete, a movie you applauded for being crazy violent AND having a purpose, saying that they wished that the movie would just stay out of politics, because it's kind of distracting from the main point. So they say. I might of paraphrased that.
Aside from that, I love the Ratatouille reference. Although I hated how you ended with saying that anyone who defends the Transformers movies is just plain wrong. It kind of undoes everything you just said, even if you were saying it to be funny.
In fact, you're attempts at humor, so far as I've seen, really... are more offensive, in a personal sense, then actually funny.
Aside from that, I love the Ratatouille reference. Although I hated how you ended with saying that anyone who defends the Transformers movies is just plain wrong. It kind of undoes everything you just said, even if you were saying it to be funny.
In fact, you're attempts at humor, so far as I've seen, really... are more offensive, in a personal sense, then actually funny.
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...
Whatever, all this article made me think is how much I love Ratatouile (the movie, not the food). And yes, you can point out a movie is bad even if I liked it. That's why I don't watch reviews until after watching the movie, or I'll have bias in the theater and won't be able to enjoy it. I also do that with games, try to make my own opinion before reading any reviews.
Case in point, Pirates 4. After seeing it I gave it a "Well, it's better than Ghost Rider". Then watched Bob's review and realized I really wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, had I done it before.
Whatever, all this article made me think is how much I love Ratatouile (the movie, not the food). And yes, you can point out a movie is bad even if I liked it. That's why I don't watch reviews until after watching the movie, or I'll have bias in the theater and won't be able to enjoy it. I also do that with games, try to make my own opinion before reading any reviews.
Case in point, Pirates 4. After seeing it I gave it a "Well, it's better than Ghost Rider". Then watched Bob's review and realized I really wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, had I done it before.
Ah well, agree to disagree i suppose. At the end of the day I'll still go see transformers 3, you'll still hate me for it, and I'll still watch your review yelling at me about it. I appreciate your desire to see the mean quality of films rise, but I think that such a perspective is a luxury. I've stopped watching a lot of serious movies that i know a few years ago, i would have dove into and enjoyed. Mostly because modern art films strive for an emotional resonance with all the shit that's happened to me in my life that i just can't handle anymore. I was on the verge of tears through half of Kung Fu Panda 2 for gods' sake (all that father-son stuff). I suppose that some could find catharsis in such an experience but not I, not anymore.
I still enjoy your reviews, more so than most others these days. Happy viewing.
I still enjoy your reviews, more so than most others these days. Happy viewing.
Did I ever tell you that I love you have 2 videos and one written article a week, Bob? Because if I didn't, I really should have.
Wonderful article. I love your well thought-out justifications for things, as it's a nice change from the unsupported opinions most people give.
One of my friends who critiques EVERYTHING made me realize this. He questions or challenges me about everything, and though it can drive me absolutely crazy sometimes, I still must thank him, because now I try my best to understand why I like the things I do, and it has helped me understand myself so much better. (And apparently you spelled discernible wrong. I didn't catch it, but spell-check did.)MovieBob said:
Wonderful article. I love your well thought-out justifications for things, as it's a nice change from the unsupported opinions most people give.
For the track record the below is the speech Moviebob is referencing regarding Ego's speech in Ratatouille:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94
It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic and more critics do need to have such a realization.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94
It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic and more critics do need to have such a realization.
I think you should review a classic movie that everyone has seen, like The Last Crusade or Lord of the Rings or something. It would provide an interesting perspective since you wouldn't have to contend with the "should you see this or not" question.
Edit to be OT: See reviewing an classic movie would highlight the portions of a critics job that aren't just recommendation. This includes stuff like putting things in a broader context like pushing a new things or bashing on cliches.
Edit to be OT: See reviewing an classic movie would highlight the portions of a critics job that aren't just recommendation. This includes stuff like putting things in a broader context like pushing a new things or bashing on cliches.
If I want to do something fun and thought provoking I usually read a book or maybe watch a documentary. When I want to relax I play games, watch TV, and go to the movies. As such I tend to avoid most of the heavier and more meaningful films. But would I want people to stop making those deeper films? Never. And I'm not really interested in "dumb fun" either, I'll take Aliens or The Abyss over 90 minutes of vapid car chases any day. I may lean towards the lighter action flicks but that doesn't mean they can't have some deeper meaning.
And really if a movie is trying to be "just dumb fun" and the critics say that it is "just dumb fun" it's not really a criticism is it, it's a statement of fact. Yeah it may be said as a criticism, and it may be raised as the reason the movie isn't worth seeing, but if you're looking for "just dumb fun" for the evening chances are you weren't looking for a future Oscar-nominee anyway.
And really if a movie is trying to be "just dumb fun" and the critics say that it is "just dumb fun" it's not really a criticism is it, it's a statement of fact. Yeah it may be said as a criticism, and it may be raised as the reason the movie isn't worth seeing, but if you're looking for "just dumb fun" for the evening chances are you weren't looking for a future Oscar-nominee anyway.
i liked exactly one moment in the whole Transformers series. The scene where the Autobots land on earth for the first time. There is a majesty to that scene. The acting from the leads actually displays the appropriate awe. And the music makes the whole thing sublime.
Nearly everything else was closer to shit.
Nearly everything else was closer to shit.
Left Wing Bias: I guess this depends on where these critics are, TBF I see several Left-Biased critics as much as Right-Biased critics. What I think though may piss people off about Left-Biased critics is that while Right-Biased have an easier time of being ignored (assuming of course one isn't on the same level of the Right), the problem with Left-Biased I find is the attitude about them usually sounds condescending, makng them sound more pretentious than they probably realise (or perhaps as much as the hope to seem like), and as such that smugness about them only serves to distance themselves from the audience. This is only made worse I find when thse particular critics find something in a movie to rave about or complain about that not only most audience members wouldn't see, but most critics woouldn't see either, more than likely because it was never really there. In a sense this is true on either side, but I find while the Right will say anyone who doesn't like/hate a movie just doesn't get it, the Left will more than often say anyone who doesn't like/hate a movie is just a terrible and ignorant person, making those who watch those reviews fell worse about themselves or doubt themselves because they didn't see what the reviewer was trying to look for, which probably has more of a negativity reaction than how they feel about disagreeing with the Right. Also, TBF you've never really came across as a Left-Biased critic Bob, if only because you somehow manage to bring a few Left and Right Bias into your reviews or articles. To list them all would take too long, but I guess some examples would be your take on Idris Elba in Thor for Left-Bias (he was fine, but the idea that giving roles is somehow a better solution as oppossed to say having new characters created is somewhat Left-Bias) and your Magneto Was Right video (a small window into your small but somewhat apparent Objectivist viewpoint).
Turning off your Brain: I don't see how you can answer that in a condescending way when you yourself have said in your reviews that certain movies are really good if we turn off our brains. Just saying. Further, you know what's better than seeing fireworks? Seeing fireworks with other people. Sometimes these movies just are fun to watch becuse of the people who are also there to watch it. It feels like a fun event, a way of being social with others without having to go thorugh the awkwardness of approaching someone. Are alot of these movies bad? Sure, but you seem to think that people watching these movies somehow validates everything about them, forgetting one thing: the audience can descern from good fireworks and bad fireworks. Why else does a movie series like Transformers continue but something like Dragon Wars remain a single film? Because the first is a better executed series of fireworks, and if you think I'm trying to defened Transformers think again, as I don't like both movies either, but I'm willing to at least say that among bad movies it is certainly easier for me to swallow and tolerate than other bad movies. Besides, to reiterate a point I made last time, even if these movies are being made en masse, its because the audience is asking for them, and as much as I don't like these movies, I think that the audience still has a right to ask for what they want, not for them to ask only for what I want.
Meaning: The problem with this one is which movie its being put into. There are indeed several movies I think that are terrible and their lack of meaning is what lead to my negative reaction, but those were in movies where not much else was happening, so it had no excuse for even existing. Then there are movies I think are awesome because of their lack of meaning, like Planet Terror or Hobo with a Shotgun, fun movies that were enjoyable to watch in theatres and at home. Was their lack of meaning their only defining feature? No, but it acted as a catalyst for the other things I liked, such as the action, gore, and just plain implausable. It's lack of meaning helped me realise from the get-go that this wasn't trying to be anything more than what was shown, so I was able to sit-back, relax, and laugh as I soaked in the good parts. And you know what, I think if those movies tried to havve meaning to them, it would have hampered the experience. Take Machete for example, it was a good fun film, I'd still probably watch it, but the part about crossing the border and having completely open doors felt hoakey and cheesy, and not in a good way, but a bad way. Thankfully it didn't appear so much, but it was still boring when it did happen. A major offender though of this was Sucker Punch, the worst movie I've seen this year, one that sucked some royal donkey dong because of its inclusion of a meaning. Had it been meaningless, it would be easier to take and perhaps fun to watch (it would also probably be only about 30-40 minutes long then), but because of its meaning, it just came off as pretentious, convulated, and even insulting. What am I trying to get here, that meaning is bad? No, not at all, in fact meaning can take a boring premise and turn it into a meaningful experience, but it actually has to follow trhough with it, go far with it. In a lot of movies like Sucker Punch, I see them add meaning in such a half-assed manner that it makes the experience worse had they not have it at all. In other words, if your going to have meaning actually make it important and fully-formed, don't half-ass it, otherwise you should just have no meaning.
Turning off your Brain: I don't see how you can answer that in a condescending way when you yourself have said in your reviews that certain movies are really good if we turn off our brains. Just saying. Further, you know what's better than seeing fireworks? Seeing fireworks with other people. Sometimes these movies just are fun to watch becuse of the people who are also there to watch it. It feels like a fun event, a way of being social with others without having to go thorugh the awkwardness of approaching someone. Are alot of these movies bad? Sure, but you seem to think that people watching these movies somehow validates everything about them, forgetting one thing: the audience can descern from good fireworks and bad fireworks. Why else does a movie series like Transformers continue but something like Dragon Wars remain a single film? Because the first is a better executed series of fireworks, and if you think I'm trying to defened Transformers think again, as I don't like both movies either, but I'm willing to at least say that among bad movies it is certainly easier for me to swallow and tolerate than other bad movies. Besides, to reiterate a point I made last time, even if these movies are being made en masse, its because the audience is asking for them, and as much as I don't like these movies, I think that the audience still has a right to ask for what they want, not for them to ask only for what I want.
Meaning: The problem with this one is which movie its being put into. There are indeed several movies I think that are terrible and their lack of meaning is what lead to my negative reaction, but those were in movies where not much else was happening, so it had no excuse for even existing. Then there are movies I think are awesome because of their lack of meaning, like Planet Terror or Hobo with a Shotgun, fun movies that were enjoyable to watch in theatres and at home. Was their lack of meaning their only defining feature? No, but it acted as a catalyst for the other things I liked, such as the action, gore, and just plain implausable. It's lack of meaning helped me realise from the get-go that this wasn't trying to be anything more than what was shown, so I was able to sit-back, relax, and laugh as I soaked in the good parts. And you know what, I think if those movies tried to havve meaning to them, it would have hampered the experience. Take Machete for example, it was a good fun film, I'd still probably watch it, but the part about crossing the border and having completely open doors felt hoakey and cheesy, and not in a good way, but a bad way. Thankfully it didn't appear so much, but it was still boring when it did happen. A major offender though of this was Sucker Punch, the worst movie I've seen this year, one that sucked some royal donkey dong because of its inclusion of a meaning. Had it been meaningless, it would be easier to take and perhaps fun to watch (it would also probably be only about 30-40 minutes long then), but because of its meaning, it just came off as pretentious, convulated, and even insulting. What am I trying to get here, that meaning is bad? No, not at all, in fact meaning can take a boring premise and turn it into a meaningful experience, but it actually has to follow trhough with it, go far with it. In a lot of movies like Sucker Punch, I see them add meaning in such a half-assed manner that it makes the experience worse had they not have it at all. In other words, if your going to have meaning actually make it important and fully-formed, don't half-ass it, otherwise you should just have no meaning.
Honestly, I never viewed the whole "movies don't have to be good" argument that way. I personally am much pickier than the average movie goer, but there are plenty of movies that I enjoy just for the spectacle.
Still...that's a damn good comparison. Makes me feel guilty for liking those movies. XD
Good article. Thanks
Still...that's a damn good comparison. Makes me feel guilty for liking those movies. XD
Good article. Thanks
I agree to quite everything. Ever noticed how MovieBob starts throwing in smiles when he talks about something controversive?
Edit. I just remembered watching Penn and Teller's Bullshit show, where they told that actual difference between liberal and conservative parties is how big they think the government should be. Liberals want big government with each man carrying small role, and conservatives want small government where each man has great power. Or something like that.
Edit. I just remembered watching Penn and Teller's Bullshit show, where they told that actual difference between liberal and conservative parties is how big they think the government should be. Liberals want big government with each man carrying small role, and conservatives want small government where each man has great power. Or something like that.
I think from the political point of view alot of the problem stems from people (mostly American) not actually knowing the differences betwen right wing (fascism) left wing (communisim) and conservitive (some where in the middle). The problem being that the American political system is excessivly scewed to the right to the point that what Americans call leftist policies/politics would in most other countries be called conservitive middle of the road politics.
Yes sonic the rest of the world argue the left right question they just do it from a more balanced point of view. That and most of the rest of the democratic world get there election campaigns over and done with in the period of a month or less while America stretches the same process over a couple of years or more.
Yes sonic the rest of the world argue the left right question they just do it from a more balanced point of view. That and most of the rest of the democratic world get there election campaigns over and done with in the period of a month or less while America stretches the same process over a couple of years or more.