Dissent in Supreme Court Decision Means War Isn't Over

Greg Tito

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Sep 29, 2005
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Dissent in Supreme Court Decision Means War Isn't Over



The Supreme Court ruled in favor of games this time, but they may have have left the door open to laws restricting game sales in the future.

Today is a good day for videogames. The Supreme Court ruled that it is not constitutional to restrict sales of games based on violent content [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111300-Supreme-Court-Rules-in-Favor-of-Videogames]. A majority of the nine justices voted in favor of striking down California's proposed law, but the decision was far from unanimous. Two justices (Justices Clarence Thomas and Stephen Breyer) voted in favor of the law, claiming that minors were not protected by the First Amendment, but two justices wrote a concurrent opinion that merely said the language and framing of the California law didn't work. Justice Alito left open the possibility that a properly worded law could get his vote in the future.

Thomas and Breyer voted in favor of the law because they believe the First Amendment was not meant to protect minors' choice in viewing all media without the parent's consent. "I do not think the First Amendment stretches that far. The practices and beliefs of the founding generation establish that 'the freedom of speech,' as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors (or a right of minors to access speech) without going through the minors' parents or guardians," wrote Thomas.

The law stated that it is up to the parents to decide whether the kids can play restricted games as long as they buy them, and Thomas had no problem with a law upholding the parent's right to choose but restricting sale directly to minors.

More troubling, however, is the argument brought forth by Alito and Chief Justice Roberts in the concurrent decision which claims games are different from books or movies and could be subject to different consideration.

"I would hold only that the particular law at issue here fails to provide the clear notice that the Constitution requires," Alito wrote. "I would not squelch legislative efforts to deal with what is perceived by some to be a significant and developing social problem. If differently framed statutes are enacted by the States or by the Federal Government, we can consider the constitutionality of those laws when cases challenging them are presented to us."

Justice Alito believes, and Chief Justice Roberts agrees with him, that games are an inherently different medium than books or movies, and therefore might deserve more scrutiny. For Alito, it is the detail and interaction which must be considered as he illustrates with a thrilling argument:

To take an example, think of a person who reads the passage in Crime and Punishment in which Raskolnikov kills the old pawn broker with an axe. Compare that reader with a video-game player who creates an avatar that bears his own image; who sees a realistic image of the victim and the scene of the killing in high definition and in three dimensions; who is forced to decide whether or not to kill the victim and decides to do so; who then pretends to grasp an axe, to raise it above the head of the victim, and then to bring it down; who hears the thud of the axe hitting her head and her cry of pain; who sees her split skull and feels the sensation of blood on his face and hands. For most people, the two experiences will not be the same.

Alito does not believe that we should dismiss the different qualities of videogames when considering their legality. "When all of the characteristics of video games are taken into account, there is certainly a reasonable basis for thinking that the experience of playing a video game may be quite different from the experience of reading a book, listening to a radio broadcast, or viewing a movie. And if this is so, then for at least some minors, the effects of playing violent video games may also be quite different. The Court acts prematurely in dismissing this possibility out of hand."

Luckily, Alito and Chief Justice Roberts did not think it necessary to vote differently than the majority, but they do raise concerns that we may not have seen the end of legislation restricting videogames.

Today, we won the battle, but the war is far from over.



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attackshark

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Nov 16, 2010
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people need to take responsibility for themselves and stop demanding that the government do it for them.
 

zelda2fanboy

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The war's over. Maybe Roberts and Alito might sway, buy Scalia and others with any common sense will not. A 7 to 2 verdict would become a 5 to 4 verdict. Plus, passing these laws and bringing them to court is expensive. Californians should be outraged that their tax dollars got squandered on nothing. This isn't even a bridge to nowhere. It's just a pile of paperwork and lawyers getting paychecks. I hope my state (or any other) doesn't try and pull this crap again.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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attackshark said:
people need to take responsibility for themselves and stop demanding that the government do it for them.
/debate

Seriously. Own up, people. You want the government banning anything you don't want your kids to get a hold off? There goes every M movie, adult book and explicit record ever made. You wanna blame violence in a video game for your mental instability? There goes anything that could possibly invoke someone to anger, and let's not forget, more deaths have been caused because of footbal brawls than video games.

A little less QQ, a little more parenting and personal responsibility.
 

daltonlaffs

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Nov 17, 2009
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That Thomas guy has a disgusting view of minor rights. Good to know that someone in our Supreme Court thinks that a parent should have the right to prevent any or all contact with their children despite age and the child's consent until adulthood.

That said, at least we won, and the dissenters still don't outnumber those that voted it was flat-out unconstitutional. I haven't lost faith in our Supreme Court yet.
 

Atheist.

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Sep 12, 2008
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Didn't this already set a legal precedent? They can't just straight up change their minds, that's irresponsible. Also, off topic, I love how kids aren't granted the right to free religion or the right assemble. How messed up is that? If a teenager is in a Christian home but wants to be Jewish, his parents can simply deny him that right. Good show, America.
 

Jeralt2100

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The states would have to come up with better arguments than they have to reopen this issue. It isn't going to happen anytime soon, and the majority decision basically says that laws restricting the sale of violent media of any kind can't exist under the consitution as it reads now. Unless we get a /very/ liberal court sometime in the future, it's unlikely this will be revisited.

The article is a nice read Greg, but I don't think it's anything we should worry about at this point. The majority of the court, not counting Alito and Roberts, ruled that such a law singling out games is unconstitutional. That pretty much puts the brakes on future legislation.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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Still, 5 of the justices voted because they felt that video games have constitutional rights, regardless of their nature. If another case reaches this far, I think it would most likely be dropped by the current justices and just reject it at face value.
 

cynicalsaint1

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Apr 1, 2010
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zelda2fanboy said:
The war's over. Maybe Roberts and Alito might sway, buy Scalia and others with any common sense will not. A 7 to 2 verdict would become a 5 to 4 verdict. Plus, passing these laws and bringing them to court is expensive. Californians should be outraged that their tax dollars got squandered on nothing. This isn't even a bridge to nowhere. It's just a pile of paperwork and lawyers getting paychecks. I hope my state (or any other) doesn't try and pull this crap again.
Pretty much this. I mean a 5-4 is a little close for comfort sure, but state courts having been shooting down these laws left and right for years - it took this long for the Supreme Court to even hear one of these cases. I have a hard time imagining the precedent to begin tilting in other direction any time soon.

I don't think we'll have much of an issue unless we start losing the justices that were in the 5 that voted it was outright unconstitutional.
 

Booze Zombie

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I always fail to see how pressing buttons and making one of three pre-designed choices makes an experience "interactive" and "confusing" for anyone with their foot not already in the door to madness.
 

AyreonMaiden

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Sep 24, 2010
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Must The Escapist frame it like this? "The battle's won but the war's not over?" Why breed fear like that? Don't you know people were crying and holding their copies of Ico near to their breasts, with bated breath waiting for this fateful decision that --- who am I kidding, there was never any fucking chance of this thing passing.

Just as they'll never have a chance at attempting it again. Like many have said before, this was a huge waste of tax money and I doubt Californians are happy that it's all going towards restricting the sale of bleeps and bloops.
 

Virgil

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Atheist. said:
Didn't this already set a legal precedent? They can't just straight up change their minds, that's irresponsible.
The Supreme Court can reverse their own decisions. It's pretty unlikely that this court would do so, but a future court with a different set of judges could potentially reverse the ruling. It has happened in the past, though I believe that it's usually striking down something that was previously ruled as being allowed, and not the reverse.

That said, the majority ruling in this case is very solid and specific. That ruling was that video games are as fully protected as free speech as other forms of media. Five judges supported it, and it's the best outcome possible from the case.

The minority ruling joined only in saying that in the law as written "violent video games" and other similar phrases were too vague to be constitutional. Two judges supported this viewpoint, which is basically a "This one is bad, but you can go back and try again" mandate.

So it's possible, but not that likely.
 

Sylocat

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Nov 13, 2007
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Even if Alito and Roberts both vote with Breyer and Thomas on the hypothetical next one, that's only four out of nine. The five who wrote the majority opinion were very clear that the wording was not the (only) problem here, and there is little reason to believe that they won't vote the same way again.

Never thought Scalia would be against this law and Breyer would be for it, but the other votes don't entirely surprise me. Kennedy was the one I was worried about, but unsure.
 

hotsauceman

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Jun 23, 2011
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Greg Tito said:
...there is certainly a reasonable basis for thinking that the experience of playing a video game may be quite different from the experience of reading a book,..."
Yeah. books can get away with a lot more then video games. I got more traumatized reading Blood Meridian then i would have Mortal Kombat. But guess which one would get banned if they got the chance? Yes video games can cause problems with people who have pre-existing conditions but the same can be said for other things. Didn't someone try to kill the president because of catcher in the rye?
But now is time for celebration. This is a big step. One Step closer to art.
 

owen4evr

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Feb 11, 2011
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Well there is a rating on the box to show you that 7 year olds shouldn't be butcher there fellow man in GTA or Call of duty but no dening they will anyway.Laws only work so well as long as we abide by them other wise they're nothing more then guidelines.
 

BrotherRool

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I agree with Alito that games are different because of the interaction and that needs to be considered, but he pulled a ridiculous strawman there.

Instead of Crime and Punishment, he should be looking at say, Saw, which is also in HD "realistic" graphics, sound, noise, visceral affects and is actually in 3D unlike most games played on 2D screens.

So everything he said was silly, except for the key point. He doesn't inspire confidence in me as a judge and in a way I'm iffy about the way judges have all this power.
 

Joe Deadman

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To take an example, think of a person who reads the passage in Crime and Punishment in which Raskolnikov kills the old pawn broker with an axe. Compare that reader with a video-game player who creates an avatar that bears his own image; who sees a realistic image of the victim and the scene of the killing in high definition and in three dimensions; who is forced to decide whether or not to kill the victim and decides to do so; who then pretends to grasp an axe, to raise it above the head of the victim, and then to bring it down; who hears the thud of the axe hitting her head and her cry of pain; who sees her split skull and feels the sensation of blood on his face and hands. For most people, the two experiences will not be the same.Uh huh.
Soooo what about a book written from a first person perspective with graphic illistrations and discriptions in a choose your own adventure style?

Or would that not be a book now?

Man I really want to write this now!
Kill old pawn broker? Y/N
You pick up the axe and quickly raise it above the pawn brokers head, with a sickening meaty thud the axe is embedded into her skull. As she lets loose a bloodcurdeling scream and drops to the floor, warm crimson blood seaps down the axe handle and washes over your hands.
You walk home and play with some kittens or whatever instead. You silly boring person :p
I don't think i'll add any illistrations though, feel free to google your own if you've got the stomach for it :p

Seriously though this isn't a very good argument at all.
Also more specifically = "and feels the sensation of blood on his face and hands" this suggests the use of imagination and i'm pretty sure that can be used with books as well unless VR suddenly took off while I wasn't looking.

Edit: To be fair as the user above stated games are kinda different due to the interactivity but I think that could have been stated a bit better than the above example from the supremem court.
 

KezzieZ

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Sep 20, 2010
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Well, I'm glad this is settled at least for a while.

I'm kind of surprised that, in the book argument, they never brought up things like the controversy over Catcher in the Rye. Also, they didn't bring up films at all; you may not get to control the action in a movie, but they can have the exact same objectionable stuff as video games and they don't tend to get nearly as many complaints.

Besides, why do we keep needing laws in place of parenting? Kids are typically carded for video games and where exactly do they get the money, regardless? I've even heard of parents/guardians buying M-rated games for the kids despite the listed rating and warnings from employees. I'm not saying that's a good choice on the part of the parents, but why were people even thinking of doing any sales banning when it's typically the parents doing the purchasing anyway? There needs to be accountability.