230: Get the Hell Out Of Dodge

Erja_Perttu

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CantFaketheFunk said:
Every time I try to replay FF7, I love Midgar. Then I get to the Kalm flashback and just can't SOLDIER (har har) through.
Oh god, that flashback. Please, someone invent a skip button for that flashback.
 

Brendan Main

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Erja_Perttu said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
Every time I try to replay FF7, I love Midgar. Then I get to the Kalm flashback and just can't SOLDIER (har har) through.
Oh god, that flashback. Please, someone invent a skip button for that flashback.
I hear in the rerelease of FF7 you'll be able to skip that scene due to its traumatic nature. Or you can choose to play through it, just without Cloud shooting off his mouth.

They're calling it "No Gushin''
 

Erja_Perttu

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Brendan Main said:
Erja_Perttu said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
Every time I try to replay FF7, I love Midgar. Then I get to the Kalm flashback and just can't SOLDIER (har har) through.
Oh god, that flashback. Please, someone invent a skip button for that flashback.
I hear in the rerelease of FF7 you'll be able to skip that scene due to its traumatic nature. Or you can choose to play through it, just without Cloud shooting off his mouth.

They're calling it "No Gushin''
Hallelujah! Screw a remake, there's all the improvement you need, right there.
 

Catfoot

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[quote="ZippyDSMlee" post="6.158859.3974225"

I am more a gameplay whore I can see the decline in gameplay more than I can see it in mode/story/setting ect. FF 1 was rich in fun equipment that made the game enjoyable, FF2-3 are a haze of my "emulated youth" FF4 was godly a much improved skill and class system with fun weapons and items, FF6 laged a bit in equipment but made up for it in accessories and skills used in battle even if the magic system made things feel generic. FF7 felt generic but was saved by equipment customization,accessories and limit breaks FF8 was a mess, FF9 was awesome despite a weakish plot and story the skill,class and equipment systems shined, FFX was both limited and generic the plot/story was wavering but no worse than FF8's romance world. And now with FF12 I have lost all faith in the FF franchise while the real time battles were great and gambits decent the game has no soul equipment is the blandest most antiseptic thing this side of a MMO the skill and class system is a joke and then some limit breaks are almost carbon copied and adjust a tad for each character. I kept dreaming of Balmier to use edgers tech/gadget stuff and while his airship stuff is cute it felt shallow and emtpy as dose the level design while it looks great and is a vast improvement over previous layouts there is something empty feeling about it. The story was bearable but but the game just dragged on and on it felt like a souless MMO.....

Uhg I am mega ranting...I apologize for the sloppy wall o text.. I have a love hate thing going with RPGs/Jrpgs and FF(and grammar/writing :p) in particular ><[/quote]

Sorry did i read that right? FF4...godly? I really don't understand the hype around FF4. My favourite FF games so far are 3 and 5 (I've completed 1 2 3 4 and 7, halfway through 5 now) because of the class system, i think 7 makes up for the lack of it with the materia system so maybe i didnt like the fact that everyone had set classes and the abilities from other characters could hardly make up for this in my eyes. I can't fault the story or characters though but, like you im more of a gameplay whore.
FF5 is godly because of the mass of classes available and aoll the abilities and innate abilities.
 

Splitter

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I remember when I first played this I loved Midgar but thought that the whole game was going to be like that.
When I first stepped outside it I was really taken aback. I remember thinking something like "So that was just the first tiny bit?"
I wasn't sure at first whether I was going to enjoy the world outside of the dystopia I'd grown to love but as the memory sequence at Kalm and Fort Condor easily won me over...
 

Splitter

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RebellionXXI said:
I remember when I first started playing FFVII, at first I thought Midgar was all there was. I thought my party would spend the entire game inside the city.

(Edit: Though I did start getting a little suspicious when I was 10+ hours into the game and hadn't seen a single weapon upgrade for Cloud.)

When I first stepped out of the city, instead of being happy to escape that urban disaster, I found myself feeling a little anxious. I thought, "We're leaving behind that huge, vast city ALREADY?! Why? There's so much to do there! So much still to explore! And we're running away from the Shinra Corporation! We still have seven more mako reactors to blow up!"

Little did I know that I would soon have to explore an entire world, upon which Midgar was little more than a mouldering concrete zit. Still, throughout most of the rest of the game I found myself looking forward to the day in which I would return to that dark city and finish what I started.
I see this is pretty much what I said...
I completely agree with this, I really wanted to see the rest of Midgar and even when I'd be clued up on the whole Sephiroth situation I still saw Shinra as an equal foe.
Although I think people focus on Sephiroth too much anyway, its not until near the end of the game with Rufus's "death" that Shinra no longer pose a threat to you, thoroughout the game they prove to be very harrowing, in particular the Turks...
 

larrykoubiak

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Maker almighty must i wait till i die to see FFVII fanboyism die?

More seriously sure it was well written, and actually conveyed some emotion, except i dont think we played the same game. Having played the game several times, thinking i missed the point or something, i come always to the same conclusion : this is just an overhyped phony game.

And Midgar is actually the most enjoyable part of it indeed, it carries promises of great storytelling and you could see yourself bring down that evil company and stick it to the man.

Having played the previous FF games before i thought "well that's new, no saving the world usual crap? would they dare venture into more politically charged content?"

Fat chance. The oh so praised story turns out once again to be your good old save the world crap with an ecological twist to it. Think Miyazaki meets Dragon Ball, but the boring part of both.

Yet i wouldnt mind that, its just a game after all and surely i can just ignore the story which are always generic in RPGs anyway and focus on the gameplay.

Wrong again. The PS1 hardware rendered the experience unpleasant to say the least, and the battle designers/3d artists egos made the combat a pain in the ass, from the loading time to the attacks taking 30 seconds. What happened to "*dzz dzzz* fight fight *boom* *victory music*"? With a decent party that took 20 second tops. Here it can take 5 minutes for a simple encounter. I know you want to flash your awesome 3D animation and try to make it look epic, but thats fine once, not every goddamn fight.

So long story short, yeah sure its a decent RPG, the boosting system is actually interesting and it had cool moments. And of course everyone is free to project what they want when playing a game, so if it was the time of your life, amen to it.

But you made it that, not Square. So congratulate yourself for your imagination and writing talents, but burn that "Square forever" t-shirt as, to quote George Carlin too, they are "servicing the customer" from behind. And that customer is you.
 

Brendan Main

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But... if I burnt my "Square Forever" t-shirt, what would I wear when my thirty black turtlenecks are in the wash? Up in Canada, if we don't dress in layers, it gets chilly.
 

CronoDAS

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Count me among the people who thought FF7 went seriously downhill once you left Midgar... I ended up not liking the game very much. Even in 1997, I thought the much-praised graphics were ugly, and the translation is terrible. I'm not going to play it again until Square Enix gives me a version with a decent script.
 

Veylon

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RebellionXXI said:
I remember when I first started playing FFVII, at first I thought Midgar was all there was. I thought my party would spend the entire game inside the city.
Ditto on that. I was honestly quite surprised when I discovered there was a rest of the world. I'd played other FF's, and I was sure that if there was one, I would've gotten there already. I'd given up hope...
 

NickCaligo42

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RAKtheUndead said:
Amusingly, I feel exactly the opposite to the article author; Midgar is my favourite part of Final Fantasy VII. I like the oppressive atmosphere, the dystopian theme, and in fact, I've been trying to find another game with that sort of theme ever since. In terms of actual gameplay, the linearity is bothersome and the battle system tedious, but I much prefer the atmosphere inside Midgar, with that very apathy and slowness that you criticise, to the chase for Sephiroth that takes place during the rest of the game.
Yeah, I actually agree. To everyone I talk to about this game I say that I'd rather the entire game had taken place inside Midgar. This article rather neatly highlights the depth and atmosphere of the game's opening act; so much more powerful compared with the rest of the game, in my eyes.
 

larrykoubiak

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Brendan Main said:
But... if I burnt my "Square Forever" t-shirt, what would I wear when my thirty black turtlenecks are in the wash? Up in Canada, if we don't dress in layers, it gets chilly.
You could always wear that Cait Sith costume you had at the last Cosplay convention ;)
 

Cintarquo

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Midgar is a bit depressing and is one of my least favourite parts of the game... But the first time I played it through the atmosphere helped set up the rest of the game, but when you already know what else awaits you in the game it can get a little tedious.

But it's still one of my favourite games and I finished playing through it again a few weeks ago.
 

ChromeAlchemist

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Considering the first thing that comes up in a FF7 conversation is "how long did it take you to get out of Midgar?" I'm going to go with no.

But obviously this is a shallow post to this article. More later.
 

Caliostro

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My god, I remember thinking the exact same thing. I couldn't wait for any opportunity to get out of that accursed city, and when I did, I shuddered to think I should ever return.

The whole thing is the embodiment of everything wrong with industrial societies: the mechanization and dehumanization of society; the perversion of the the system where the people who built the city become cogs in it's system; the cold, dark and uncaring feeling of metal in the entire city, and nothing but; the despair and depression... When I left Midgar the world outside felt like the best thing ever.

To a smaller degree, I was reminded of that experience in Fallout 3, leaving the Vault.
 

Jonci

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Midgar was my favorite part of the game. It always depressed me when I got to the part where we live the city. Just meant going through the rural towns and common cave/dungeon settings any other game has. Midgar was a visual symbol of the decay that Shinra and their greed had brought to the world. The destruction of sector 7 was probably one of the most epic scenes I've ever seen. I just wish we could have seen more of Midgar in the game.
 

Therumancer

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Brendan Main said:
Get the Hell Out Of Dodge

Final Fantasy VII is a game that people keep playing years after its release. But while it's earned a place among the most beloved games of all time, its starting area is a bit of a slog. Brendan Main explains why, even while he looks forward to replaying FFVII, he dreads going back to Midgar.

Read Full Article

Hmmm, I can see that perspective to an extent, I also vaguely remember a couple committing suicide near the entrance to the train station, and later a parallel scene that ends differantly.

However I think you have a couple of things wrong to an extent, though admittedly while implied in the story and something I think you were supposed to pick up, it took greater exposition in the prequel, sequel, and apparently second prequel about the Turks to really get into.

Simply put I think they were showing a PART of Midgar, mainly where the poor and the downtrodden live, the city is supposed to be massive. You get some impressions when you visit areas for the "Crossdressing" bit that there is at least supposed to be a differant class of people. I guess to an extent they are selling the idea of Barret's perspective at that point, and understand Barret is a guy who was born in a prison camp.

It should also be noted that for all the comments about them "sucking the life out of the planet" the majority of the world seems to be flourishing. Idellic small towns, rolling grasslands, blue oceans, most of these communities remaining safe from monsters.

The point I got from this is that Shinra might be greedy to some extent, but they are not really "evil" or even especially oppressive when you get down to it. What they are doing actually benefits the majority of humanity, and when the world is threatened as much as they remain your enemies as a group of terrorists, they very much try and do everything in their power to save the world.

The Turks, the quintessential "shadowy men in black" who are your enemies for most of the game are honorable, they indeed protected Aeris and raised her well, and their leader is one of the guys Sepiroth (the real bad guy) winds up designating as a priority target. The point about the honor and "spirit" of the Turks is a big deal in the final scenes of the game, which clashes with their earliest portrayal. In the movie intended to wrap up the loose eneds they sort of expand on this where you have The Turks, once a group of BadA$$es fighting opponents MASSIVELY more powerful than they are in futile attempts to save the world and protect people.

In FF VII Rufus, the original "bad guy" is seen pretty much sacrificing himself to try and save the world, giving up pretty much everything he had built. Something that would seem out of character at the beginning of the game, but if you think about it never was. Oh surely he hates the heroes, and isn't exactly a nice guy, but even in the movie he's being a [email protected] but acting entirely for the right reasons, and almost ends the entire problem through sheer cunning.

Crisis Core sort of starts out showing SOLDIER at it's best, and how they produced people like Angeal, Zack, and even Genesis for all his flaws. Sepiroth before certain revelations was actually a bona fide hero, despite the fact that you know what is going to happen with him as he spirals into nihlistic insanity.

I think one of the reasons why Final Fantasy VII endures for so many is that even without the exposition, it subtly paints a world where everyone has a fairly sensible motivation and there really aren't any kackling "Kefka" type bad guys, even Sepiroth who is off his rocker has some fairly understandable logic behind his insanity. Surely the protaganists are truely the good guys even at the beginning, but even they are not always right about everything.

Part of the point is that at the beginning you get to see Rufus and Shinra at it's worst. But that is what makes it such a powerful scene later when you see them at their best when he pretty much sacrifices himself, his corperation, and what he built in a last ditch attempt to stop a WEAPON. You also get to see a differant face of Shinra in Crisis Core with some of the missions SOLDIER performs (off the console) acting as warriors who protect the people, hunt monsters, and otherwise keep the world safe where nobody else can. Shinra is never exactly nice, but arguably the world is better off with them.

The impression I get is that judging things from the beginning of Final Fantasy VII is supposed to be like judging LA totally by The Barrio, showing those areas leads you to a specific impression, but that impression exists to make a counterpoint later and part of what made some of the "oh, wow" moments stand out.
 

Mr.Squishy

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Snork Maiden said:
I like the midgar bit (especially Wall Mart onwards). Nowhere near as bad as Baldurs gate II's first dungeon, which is dire.
The memories! They burn! ...of course I've only just gotten into BG 2, but still, by god...I hate that dungeon....going through it feels like my bones make a small dagger and stab me from the inside...that place is just too damn creepy (or not, but points for the rather obvious reference)
 

Charli

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Oh for sure, I mean even when I was younger the scenes of Midgar really got to me as a kind of... demoralized, and threatening environment. Litter everywhere in the slums... the big Shinra building like a fortress above the plates.

Reeally wasn't pleasent. But then I always thought too deeply into these kinda things. So I knew Midgar was meant to draw that kind of latent disgust from you. Even if you weren't really sure 'why' you didn't like the Midgar bit, most people just didn't.


...Yeah okay and the pacing was a little tiresome. But still, its fun to think in a more subconcious level ain't it?
 

The Great JT

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Midgar was really depressing. An "upper city" that was less filthy but still soaked in corruption and blood and a "lower city" which was a perpetually horribly polluted slum? What's not depressing like that? It's like Gotham City if it went on a steampunk diet and its only form of entertainment was reading Watchmen for twenty years.