What Human Revolution Got Wrong
Yahtzee lists five reasons why the original Deus Ex was better.
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Yahtzee lists five reasons why the original Deus Ex was better.
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Extra Punctuation: What Human Revolution Got Wrong
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I loved Human Revolutions, But Yahtzee got it right accross the whole board. Though I think that in terms of number one, there shouldnt have been any bossfights to begin with. I just feel that the boss fight has lost all its meaning, and should either be brought back to its original stature, or killed off completely.
Reason 5 was reason enough.
But really, the melee weapons issue is one that I notice in almost every recent game. The tragedy of running out of ammo could always be overlooked with a nice sharp...or blunt...beating stick. What happened to that, I don't know. I really, really don't.
But really, the melee weapons issue is one that I notice in almost every recent game. The tragedy of running out of ammo could always be overlooked with a nice sharp...or blunt...beating stick. What happened to that, I don't know. I really, really don't.
Also, he likes Lemon-Lime.
edit: Oh dear, it appears I should have read the entire article before posting this...
The first boss fight was a good example of their poor implementation since the "non-guns" approach was just throwing barrels... not quite fitting for the non-lethal character either.
Even with these flaws, Human Revolution is still one of the more refreshing games recently. Does that excuse them? No, far from it. But I can still see usual trend of people coming here who take one or two things Yahtzee says about a game and declare it bad regardless of not playing it.
Even with these flaws, Human Revolution is still one of the more refreshing games recently. Does that excuse them? No, far from it. But I can still see usual trend of people coming here who take one or two things Yahtzee says about a game and declare it bad regardless of not playing it.
I think that the lack of specialization in this game is due to the great expense (both in time and money) of making the game. When you have a game with non-linear levels in this day and age you'll generally want to let the player explore each route just to to justify the extra few million dollars and several thousand man-hours the alternate paths took to create. Which is also why games like Call of Juarez: The Cartel are so linear to the point of actually telling you were to stand in a firefight. Developers are afraid that the player will ruin all their hard work by playing in a retarded fashion. This is why development companies need a shrink to cure them of the fanatic attachment they feel to every aspect of their product and just let the player go.
Yes, there are a few problems with HR (and Human Revolution for that matter /ohsoclever). I agree that the boss fights were pointless. And I also agree that Anna and Guenther were great characters with clear motivation. So that's the obvious bit, now let's get to technicals:
-Melee weapons are absolutely needed! For one, it's idiotic that the same energy that makes the bloke invisible gets depleted whenever he punches somebody in the face. By the same logic, he would need to consume roughly four 12-piece KFC buckets whenever he runs up some stairs. Secondly, it's basically a "get out of shit quick" button. I've lost count over how many times my brother handled two enemies in the following way: shoot the first, take down the second. It's not exciting, it's just...boring. Plus throwing boxes around just to break them makes Adam look like a...dunno, down-syndrome Batman?
-Choices. There is no point in having multiple endings if you can change your mind at the last second. Your overall style of play should decide what ending you get. One game that did this absolutely right was Silent Hill 2, but I won't get into fanboyism.
Ok, no some things that are quite good:
-Hacking. It's a fun mini game, and infinitely better than watching a little progress bar go down as you frantically try to shut down cameras, and to sic the droids on their former masters.
Conversations/Negotiations. Again, well done. I loved the hostage scene, just because I had a real choice in handling it, and it did not seem out of character for my then silent hacker type to want to end the situation without shedding any blood.
-Melee weapons are absolutely needed! For one, it's idiotic that the same energy that makes the bloke invisible gets depleted whenever he punches somebody in the face. By the same logic, he would need to consume roughly four 12-piece KFC buckets whenever he runs up some stairs. Secondly, it's basically a "get out of shit quick" button. I've lost count over how many times my brother handled two enemies in the following way: shoot the first, take down the second. It's not exciting, it's just...boring. Plus throwing boxes around just to break them makes Adam look like a...dunno, down-syndrome Batman?
-Choices. There is no point in having multiple endings if you can change your mind at the last second. Your overall style of play should decide what ending you get. One game that did this absolutely right was Silent Hill 2, but I won't get into fanboyism.
Ok, no some things that are quite good:
-Hacking. It's a fun mini game, and infinitely better than watching a little progress bar go down as you frantically try to shut down cameras, and to sic the droids on their former masters.
Conversations/Negotiations. Again, well done. I loved the hostage scene, just because I had a real choice in handling it, and it did not seem out of character for my then silent hacker type to want to end the situation without shedding any blood.
Pretty much. The character development does tend to funnel the player somewhat, but it is possible to make a specialized Jensen if the player is particularly bloody minded about it. My (and a lot of other peoples') first character panned out as Yahtzee said, but I have since gone back and done pure combat and pure stealth runs.
Also, the boss fights were totally (and I mean totally) fucking pointless. A character geared for stealth will be ripped a new one by even the weakest boss, but a character built for combat will destroy each boss in literally seconds (max level Typhoon, two volleys per boss). Seriously, try it. The balance (or lack thereof) is appalling.
And Reason 5 eliminates the need for Reasons 1-4.
Also, the boss fights were totally (and I mean totally) fucking pointless. A character geared for stealth will be ripped a new one by even the weakest boss, but a character built for combat will destroy each boss in literally seconds (max level Typhoon, two volleys per boss). Seriously, try it. The balance (or lack thereof) is appalling.
And Reason 5 eliminates the need for Reasons 1-4.
Oh man I forgot that line, now I need to go play Deus Ex again.
It us, doesn't take much for me to load that one back up.
It us, doesn't take much for me to load that one back up.
It is funny cause NONE Of those were problems in Deus Ex Invisible War.
Oh, don't believe me in specialization? The type of biomods you choose for Invisible War definitely change gameplay a a lot because it had the same choose one biomod or other that Deus Ex one had. 3 other of complaints were obvious to anybody who actually played Invisible War and didn't just read on the interwebs that the game sucks. To be fair, like others said I don't think Lemon Lime thing wasn't referenced in Deus Ex 3 though.
::HIDES::
But I also found Alpha Protocol more fun and REPLAYABLE than DEus ex 3 though. (note I still think Deus Ex 3 was a good game.) The only thing Deus Ex 3 had over Invisible War and Alpha Protocol was that Deus Ex 3 had huge hub areas and the level design was better in Deus Ex 3.
To be fair though all the deus ex games, only the like the last level choices mattered for the endings, Deus Ex 3 just makes it more transparent and simpler.
When it comes to endings in a Deus Ex style game, the nameless Mod probably did the best job. (btw, any fan of RPG/stealth/FPS hybrids who has the original Deus Ex, DEFINITELY LOOK INTO the nameless mod)
The thing most lacking in Deus ex 3 to me thoguh was the philosophical and ohter none science references intellectual tangents. In Deus ex 1 and 2 multiple times throughout the game there would be philosophical references in the actual conversations and some of them got crazily cool. In DEus Ex 3 the story lacked this but replaced it with perhaps more of a focus on being "harder" sci fi. It almost seem to me that on one level Deus ex 3 was meant to be a mainstream hollywood type sci fi story from the main storyline but on another level was meant to have interestingly written emails. The best writing in the game was probably the emails on the computers at Picus.
Also, Steven Heck was a better Deus Ex character than anyone in Deus Ex 3 except for the dude who who introduces the story in the beginning.
Oh, don't believe me in specialization? The type of biomods you choose for Invisible War definitely change gameplay a a lot because it had the same choose one biomod or other that Deus Ex one had. 3 other of complaints were obvious to anybody who actually played Invisible War and didn't just read on the interwebs that the game sucks. To be fair, like others said I don't think Lemon Lime thing wasn't referenced in Deus Ex 3 though.
::HIDES::
But I also found Alpha Protocol more fun and REPLAYABLE than DEus ex 3 though. (note I still think Deus Ex 3 was a good game.) The only thing Deus Ex 3 had over Invisible War and Alpha Protocol was that Deus Ex 3 had huge hub areas and the level design was better in Deus Ex 3.
To be fair though all the deus ex games, only the like the last level choices mattered for the endings, Deus Ex 3 just makes it more transparent and simpler.
When it comes to endings in a Deus Ex style game, the nameless Mod probably did the best job. (btw, any fan of RPG/stealth/FPS hybrids who has the original Deus Ex, DEFINITELY LOOK INTO the nameless mod)
The thing most lacking in Deus ex 3 to me thoguh was the philosophical and ohter none science references intellectual tangents. In Deus ex 1 and 2 multiple times throughout the game there would be philosophical references in the actual conversations and some of them got crazily cool. In DEus Ex 3 the story lacked this but replaced it with perhaps more of a focus on being "harder" sci fi. It almost seem to me that on one level Deus ex 3 was meant to be a mainstream hollywood type sci fi story from the main storyline but on another level was meant to have interestingly written emails. The best writing in the game was probably the emails on the computers at Picus.
Also, Steven Heck was a better Deus Ex character than anyone in Deus Ex 3 except for the dude who who introduces the story in the beginning.
Also, what endings? You push a button and nothing happens. That was truely disapointing.
That said, as mentioned above I loved the conversation/negotiations scenes.
In the end DE 1 was vastly supirior but HR was pretty good as well (although think Alpha Protocol was better than HR but not by much).
That said, as mentioned above I loved the conversation/negotiations scenes.
In the end DE 1 was vastly supirior but HR was pretty good as well (although think Alpha Protocol was better than HR but not by much).
1. Well detailed bosses - Agreed. The three guys who show up in HR I never once cared for. They acted like stereotypical bad guys in every single way. The tank with the big gun, the silent assassin, and the weirdly accented leader.
2. - Lack of melee weapons - True. Wasting ammo on breaking crates is not cool, and ammo is scarce enough to start. While we're on this subject, however...
2.5 - Lack of food vendors - Did anyone else besides me find it agonizing how long you would play certain missions with only ONE energy cell powered in this damn game? Why didn't the food vendors in Hangsha, Detriot, or any other hub sell actual food since energy bars restore those cells? Yes, I know LIMB clinics did this, but in Deus Ex 1, you could also stumble upon plenty of ammo and restoration items with just some basic scouting.
3. - Lack of true specialization - I fully agree on this one. If XP/Praxis kits can let you unlock pretty much everything by playing a stealth character, which the game seems to force, there are some severe balancing issues to be sorted out.
Why not have skills be specific in how you progress, and Augments fill a general role in the same way? That's what the Skills/Augs let you do in Deus Ex 1. For example.
Swimming skills versus Augmented Lungs. One costs you skill points, while the other costs an Aug slot. So, which do you spend? The Aug slot or the Skill points?
That old system would've worked quite well in HR with enough planning. Augs are more powerful than skills anyway, so they should let you do more when you use them.
4. - Endings that mean something - There's that, but also don't forget that the endings of the prior two games had gameplay elements you could pursue to reach them.
Wantd to destroy the base with Page inside? Hack all the terminals correctly.
Want to go out guns blazing? Destroy his container and turrets.
And in IW, who would you side with at the base of the Statue of Liberty? They would all give you objectives to achieve to tip the scales in their favor.
5. - The lack of humor - This doesn't NEED saying. Deus Ex was funny at times, and it fit the mood perfectly, even with the diabolical things going on. In HR, it's far too bleak without much direct backing for it. We're told things about the world, but it happens offscreen or out of your reach most of the time.
2. - Lack of melee weapons - True. Wasting ammo on breaking crates is not cool, and ammo is scarce enough to start. While we're on this subject, however...
2.5 - Lack of food vendors - Did anyone else besides me find it agonizing how long you would play certain missions with only ONE energy cell powered in this damn game? Why didn't the food vendors in Hangsha, Detriot, or any other hub sell actual food since energy bars restore those cells? Yes, I know LIMB clinics did this, but in Deus Ex 1, you could also stumble upon plenty of ammo and restoration items with just some basic scouting.
3. - Lack of true specialization - I fully agree on this one. If XP/Praxis kits can let you unlock pretty much everything by playing a stealth character, which the game seems to force, there are some severe balancing issues to be sorted out.
Why not have skills be specific in how you progress, and Augments fill a general role in the same way? That's what the Skills/Augs let you do in Deus Ex 1. For example.
Swimming skills versus Augmented Lungs. One costs you skill points, while the other costs an Aug slot. So, which do you spend? The Aug slot or the Skill points?
That old system would've worked quite well in HR with enough planning. Augs are more powerful than skills anyway, so they should let you do more when you use them.
4. - Endings that mean something - There's that, but also don't forget that the endings of the prior two games had gameplay elements you could pursue to reach them.
Wantd to destroy the base with Page inside? Hack all the terminals correctly.
Want to go out guns blazing? Destroy his container and turrets.
And in IW, who would you side with at the base of the Statue of Liberty? They would all give you objectives to achieve to tip the scales in their favor.
5. - The lack of humor - This doesn't NEED saying. Deus Ex was funny at times, and it fit the mood perfectly, even with the diabolical things going on. In HR, it's far too bleak without much direct backing for it. We're told things about the world, but it happens offscreen or out of your reach most of the time.
I didnt mind the lack of melee I didn't mind the boss fights, I didn't mind just about everything Yathee mentioned other than the ending issue, Yahtzee is smokeing crack on this one tho at the end of the day DX 1 is still a better game. Heres my mini review of it
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Deus ex human revolution mini zippy review
Well I don?t know what to say in scope it tries to be more like DX1 but in practice it?s more like DX2.
The good, the timey wimy sealthy combaty stuff is gold and you don?t even need to use the cover system, though 3-5 hits and your dead dose get a bit old it does not really detract from the overall experience unless you want to gun and run. Tho the AI is turned down for console users ala bioshock.
The conversation system flows nicely it feels like you are having a conversation more than press X read , I mean you tort and retort in a flow of dueling paragraphs and sentences sometimes it ends too soon but getting the silver tong award at the end means you?ve had the best outcome you can get it?s the closest I have seen to real conversational dueling . I have not gotten the conversation aug yet so I do not know how it works I assume it works with either a color code or percentage numbers on your choices.
INVENTORY MOTHER FRAKKER INVENTORY I still am in shock you have inventory and more so ammo is now part of inventory, theres no armor as far as I know, but it makes what you carry something you have to care about. I wish they would have let pick up ammo from other dropped weapons and carry more than one version of a weapon that way you can sell it or give it away when needed.
Levels are compact but spacious they lean more to DX2(size wise) than DX1 but over all its an improvement over DX2.
The mehy to bad
The weapon mod system bores me to tears to far too strict and by the logical limited book even more so than DX1 but you can at least stack some of them so it?s annoying more than anything else(no AP rounds for my tricked out revolver but the puny 10MM pistol gets it only?? NERD SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
The AI as I said before is toned down, it lacks awareness , sure the guards and enemies have the basic detection skills needed to make sure you cannot just crouch run through an area , but when a cop sees me entering a vent or lifting something and says nothing that?s cheap AI in my book
Stealth is a bit easy due to the AI issues but other than that I?ve had fun screwing with the AI, I wonder if the AI is less drooling on hard difficulty.
The save system in this game has to be a nightmare for console users, I am playing it on the PC so I have 3 save options save from menu(I do it at major check points of the game it saves it in a endless slot system, quick save I use all the damn time and check points I sometimes use)from what I understand you only get auto check point saves in the console versions.
The ending, I have heard nothing but bad things about the ending like they had to rush things so they went with an overview of how it ended rather than you going through with it??? cheeeaaappppppppppp .
PS:Most DLC needs to be free for the PC >>
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Deus ex human revolution mini zippy review
Well I don?t know what to say in scope it tries to be more like DX1 but in practice it?s more like DX2.
The good, the timey wimy sealthy combaty stuff is gold and you don?t even need to use the cover system, though 3-5 hits and your dead dose get a bit old it does not really detract from the overall experience unless you want to gun and run. Tho the AI is turned down for console users ala bioshock.
The conversation system flows nicely it feels like you are having a conversation more than press X read , I mean you tort and retort in a flow of dueling paragraphs and sentences sometimes it ends too soon but getting the silver tong award at the end means you?ve had the best outcome you can get it?s the closest I have seen to real conversational dueling . I have not gotten the conversation aug yet so I do not know how it works I assume it works with either a color code or percentage numbers on your choices.
INVENTORY MOTHER FRAKKER INVENTORY I still am in shock you have inventory and more so ammo is now part of inventory, theres no armor as far as I know, but it makes what you carry something you have to care about. I wish they would have let pick up ammo from other dropped weapons and carry more than one version of a weapon that way you can sell it or give it away when needed.
Levels are compact but spacious they lean more to DX2(size wise) than DX1 but over all its an improvement over DX2.
The mehy to bad
The weapon mod system bores me to tears to far too strict and by the logical limited book even more so than DX1 but you can at least stack some of them so it?s annoying more than anything else(no AP rounds for my tricked out revolver but the puny 10MM pistol gets it only?? NERD SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
The AI as I said before is toned down, it lacks awareness , sure the guards and enemies have the basic detection skills needed to make sure you cannot just crouch run through an area , but when a cop sees me entering a vent or lifting something and says nothing that?s cheap AI in my book
Stealth is a bit easy due to the AI issues but other than that I?ve had fun screwing with the AI, I wonder if the AI is less drooling on hard difficulty.
The save system in this game has to be a nightmare for console users, I am playing it on the PC so I have 3 save options save from menu(I do it at major check points of the game it saves it in a endless slot system, quick save I use all the damn time and check points I sometimes use)from what I understand you only get auto check point saves in the console versions.
The ending, I have heard nothing but bad things about the ending like they had to rush things so they went with an overview of how it ended rather than you going through with it??? cheeeaaappppppppppp .
PS:Most DLC needs to be free for the PC >>
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For me it goes like this:
Deus Ex = Unreal Tournament + System Shock + Thief + whatever else they could also squeeze in
Deus Ex: Human Revolution = Gears of War + Metal Gear Solid
The original has much more interactivity. I remember going to Paul's apartment where I could pick up all of his dishes and throw them at strangers. In UNATCO I could move "wet floor" signs. Yes, it doesn't make any change in gameplay, but it was immersive and fun to redecorate my office with random shit and whatnot. In HR every item you can interact with is there for a purpose, be it hiding a vent or the ability to throw it at an enemy. Yeah, you could flush the toilets which felt as a homage to the original, not really as some immersive sim mechanic.
Oh and yes, I absolutely loved how shitty you were with guns depending on your skills. The health system is also the best I've seen.
HR felt in certain ways more like IW rather than the original. Actually, IW had more gameplay versatility than HR.
Face it, it's true: they just don't make them like that anymore. ;_;
Deus Ex = Unreal Tournament + System Shock + Thief + whatever else they could also squeeze in
Deus Ex: Human Revolution = Gears of War + Metal Gear Solid
The original has much more interactivity. I remember going to Paul's apartment where I could pick up all of his dishes and throw them at strangers. In UNATCO I could move "wet floor" signs. Yes, it doesn't make any change in gameplay, but it was immersive and fun to redecorate my office with random shit and whatnot. In HR every item you can interact with is there for a purpose, be it hiding a vent or the ability to throw it at an enemy. Yeah, you could flush the toilets which felt as a homage to the original, not really as some immersive sim mechanic.
Oh and yes, I absolutely loved how shitty you were with guns depending on your skills. The health system is also the best I've seen.
HR felt in certain ways more like IW rather than the original. Actually, IW had more gameplay versatility than HR.
Face it, it's true: they just don't make them like that anymore. ;_;
Color me impressed, Ben. That's exactly the problem I'm having with the game right now. I want to replay it because the first time was so fun, but I find myself forced into a specific way of playing.Yahtzee said:
My biggest disappointment was the way that the game rewards stealthy play far and above any other method. You can shoot someone and get 10 xp. Headshot gets you a total of 20. Sneaky, stabby kill nets your 30.
However, if you knock someone out, you get 50 xp and if you make it through the entire level without being seen, you get a bonus 500 and another 250 for not setting off with alarms. This unbalance towards stealth/nice-guy gameplay makes direct combat based gameplay far less viable on the higher difficulty level IMHO because by mid-game you have far fewer augs than someone being stealthy.
Don't get me wrong, on my first play through, I loved the game. Next to Portal 2, I think it's the best game I've played all year. But, replayability is much less than I'd hoped for.
i'm also slightly concerned about the psychic super-hobo after you return to detroit...
"you will all suffer a grey sickness!"
"it will come on the backs of 12 kings" etc
WHY CAN A HOBO PREDICT THE FUTURE?! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!
clearly the illuminati and the majestic 12 are slipping IF A RANDOM HOBO KNOWS ALL YOUR PLANS, DAMMIT!
bah! as much as it's highly probably it's just a salute to it's predecessor but WHY?! what does this mean for the continuity? bah!
"you will all suffer a grey sickness!"
"it will come on the backs of 12 kings" etc
WHY CAN A HOBO PREDICT THE FUTURE?! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!
clearly the illuminati and the majestic 12 are slipping IF A RANDOM HOBO KNOWS ALL YOUR PLANS, DAMMIT!
bah! as much as it's highly probably it's just a salute to it's predecessor but WHY?! what does this mean for the continuity? bah!