Deus Ex - Boss Fights
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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The Escapists best contributor has returned! Hear hear!
Reading this is like an extremely coherent version of my splutterings whilst watching my girlfriend play through HR. (I'm too poor for games.) She beat the last humanoid boss in under three seconds thanks to the broken pre-order bonuses too.
Reading this is like an extremely coherent version of my splutterings whilst watching my girlfriend play through HR. (I'm too poor for games.) She beat the last humanoid boss in under three seconds thanks to the broken pre-order bonuses too.
First: Finally, Shamus, you are back!!!
Huzzzaaah!!!!
OT: "It's a shame Eidos decided to outsource the boss fights, and even worse that they apparently outsourced them to people who had no understanding of the rest of the game."
That's... retarded! Outsource such a vital component, just makes my eyes grow wide with disbelief.
Outsource the cutscenes next time, geniuses!!!
Huzzzaaah!!!!
OT: "It's a shame Eidos decided to outsource the boss fights, and even worse that they apparently outsourced them to people who had no understanding of the rest of the game."
That's... retarded! Outsource such a vital component, just makes my eyes grow wide with disbelief.
Outsource the cutscenes next time, geniuses!!!
The boss fights were cheesy, but not hard (I played on Hard and earned the Pacifist achievement. I was very stealthy). I'd say the boss fights are actually probably easier for nonlethal players. Why? We're more likely to have the Stun Gun in our inventory, and that weapon makes bosses trivial.
The fact that you can take ALL the augs in the first place is kinda symptomatic of the kind of decay Shamus is talking about, and yes whilst the game offers a more varied approach to combat than say, call of duty, they are still variations on the same theme of "to defeat the demon, shoot at it until it dies."poiumty said:
It just doesn't feel anywhere near as polished or thought out as the decisions you're faced with in other parts of the game, and that's a shame.
The second bossfight in the... surprisingly empty building (spoiler free description), I actually just used the stun gun. It stunned the target longer than it took to reload. 11 Stun guns (at medium difficulty) and the boss died. This was with full stealth getup.Shamus Young said:
I actually liked the boss fights after I realized that cloaking worked on them as well as it worked on you. The first one I stunned the guy, and then hid. Picked him off slowly with other weapons, and that was that. Once it became a stealth shoot + hide fight, it suddenly became awesome.
Still, I think Saemus has hit the head on a lot of points here. There is a pandemic in game protagonists that causes their normal brain functions to slow when they get close to bosses. Jumping out of cover to talk with them like they are best friends.
This is why you shouldn't even HAVE these direct dialogs. Maybe have two versions of the cut scene, based on skill point spending. One where you sneak in, and initiate from stealth, one where you walk in and lock'n'load. Dunno.
Funny thing is, there actually ARE crazy things you can do with these bosses, it's just not obvious without foreknowledge. The first boss can be cheesed easily just by using the stun gun, the 2nd boss can't actually kill you if you've got EMP shielding, and the 3rd boss can be beaten by reprogramming a turret to attack enemies and carrying it with you to the fight so it kills him in about 5 seconds.
Pretty sure the complaint is that YOU CAN'T HIDE BOYSCOUT. In the first game, every bossfight could be avoided in some fashion, even if it was just running the fuck away.poiumty said:
Please tell me this will be a regular feature again... oh please tell me it'll be regular again...
Anyway, fully agreed. Though I played as a mix of both and had a beefed up shotgun, still made me sad that I couldn't hack the bosses, sneak up on them, sneak past them, or hell, just run past them, leaving them bewildered and going "did he just do that?!"
Or, perhaps if they were actually characterized, had actual motivations and personalities, I might have been fine with having to kill them, if it made sense story-wise and offered a decent reason.
Anyway, fully agreed. Though I played as a mix of both and had a beefed up shotgun, still made me sad that I couldn't hack the bosses, sneak up on them, sneak past them, or hell, just run past them, leaving them bewildered and going "did he just do that?!"
Or, perhaps if they were actually characterized, had actual motivations and personalities, I might have been fine with having to kill them, if it made sense story-wise and offered a decent reason.
Hacking sections which are at the easiest difficulty. A better comparison for a stealth/hacking character fighting a boss would be like forcing someone with no hacking augs being forced to hack a level 4 door.poiumty said:
That really was a stupid list.
1. Forced to talk to bosses, even when playing game stealthfully.
2. Forced to fight bosses with guns only.
3. Damage your gun inflicts against bosses is weak.
4. Bosses lack intelligence nor reacts to your actions.
5. Bosses are flat, bland characters.
You had one opinion which was "i dont like the bosses or boss fights" which is fine. I hate the bosses, hate the way you have to fight them with guns, fact your cant sneak attack them or bypass them. Why you needed to make 5 points is beyond me. Hope your previous posts are better than this because this really wasnt good at all because no one liked the boss fights.
1. Forced to talk to bosses, even when playing game stealthfully.
2. Forced to fight bosses with guns only.
3. Damage your gun inflicts against bosses is weak.
4. Bosses lack intelligence nor reacts to your actions.
5. Bosses are flat, bland characters.
You had one opinion which was "i dont like the bosses or boss fights" which is fine. I hate the bosses, hate the way you have to fight them with guns, fact your cant sneak attack them or bypass them. Why you needed to make 5 points is beyond me. Hope your previous posts are better than this because this really wasnt good at all because no one liked the boss fights.
Some legit points, but I wasn't that bothered by the boss fights. I played some weird mix of movement and stealth, it wasn't until the bosses that I tried weapons. I read that's the reason they put them in. Also there are some easy tactics to beat em if you hate em. I killed all bosses with 2-3 remote explosives.
That said, it's still weird in such a free play game.
That said, it's still weird in such a free play game.
Damn man, I've never played the game but you make the bosses sound like Mass Effect 2's Harbinger.Shamus Young said:
Well I haven't played Deus Ex HR yet, so I really can't comment on the topic other than "yeah I heard the bosses suck."
However... hurray Experienced Points! I hope you start updating at least slightly more frequently again.
However... hurray Experienced Points! I hope you start updating at least slightly more frequently again.
Some of the points were dead on (particularly cut scene stupidity and bosses having no real character to make the fight meaningful in any way), but some almost seemed like they were made about a different game.
First, if there is a wrong way to play the game, it's actually not the way most players will play the game at all. I'd imagine most players are playing with a stealth/hacking oriented play style and that's actually the "right" way to play. Stealthing and hacking help you avoid the tougher combat sections, get you more loot, give you more incidental storyline material and gives you more interesting paths to follow. Even with the bosses, your stealth augs and a less gun focused style is the better one to take (witness how easy the bosses are made just by using the stungun and disabling grenades for a quick example).
Second, because there are basically no actual combat augs to spend points on, it makes no sense to complain about having spent points on skills that don't impact the boss. Sure there are some augs that make the boss fights easier (electricity shielding, gas protection, cloaking, etc.) but there really aren't any combat augs other than Typhoon. As far as I know, nothing is impervious to the typhoon but I was able to get through the game easily without even buying it at all. Surely if you happened to spend all of your points on inventory size and extra energy cells, you've spent points on stuff that won't directly help you fight a boss.. but it's not like you could have spent those points on, say, making your shotgun do more damage because there just isn't a skill that even does that sort of thing in the first place.
First, if there is a wrong way to play the game, it's actually not the way most players will play the game at all. I'd imagine most players are playing with a stealth/hacking oriented play style and that's actually the "right" way to play. Stealthing and hacking help you avoid the tougher combat sections, get you more loot, give you more incidental storyline material and gives you more interesting paths to follow. Even with the bosses, your stealth augs and a less gun focused style is the better one to take (witness how easy the bosses are made just by using the stungun and disabling grenades for a quick example).
Second, because there are basically no actual combat augs to spend points on, it makes no sense to complain about having spent points on skills that don't impact the boss. Sure there are some augs that make the boss fights easier (electricity shielding, gas protection, cloaking, etc.) but there really aren't any combat augs other than Typhoon. As far as I know, nothing is impervious to the typhoon but I was able to get through the game easily without even buying it at all. Surely if you happened to spend all of your points on inventory size and extra energy cells, you've spent points on stuff that won't directly help you fight a boss.. but it's not like you could have spent those points on, say, making your shotgun do more damage because there just isn't a skill that even does that sort of thing in the first place.
