Proposed Second-Hand Seller Database Raises 'Big Bro' Concerns

WMDogma

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Proposed Second-Hand Seller Database Raises 'Big Bro' Concerns



If you're looking to trade in your old copies of Madden, you may want to stick with EBay.

A new ordinance being reviewed by the City Council of Madison, Wisconsin would require individuals who sell any items to a second-hand store to enter their personal information into a police database.

The idea behind this proposal is that it'll assist police in catching criminals who make a living selling off their ill-gotten gains (such as stolen books, iPods, games, and movies) to pawn shops and the like, but civil rights advocates are concerned that the new law could end up violating the privacy of second-hand sellers and anyone looking to off-load their old PS2 collection. In using the database, there's concern that police could potentially build profiles on people based on the music they listen to or games they play.

"The ACLU's position is quite simply that we don't need another government database that's connected to our tastes and our choices for intellectual and entertainment options," says Stacy Harbaugh of the Madison chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. She also pointed out that there was nothing in the law preventing Madison police from sharing that personal info with other law enforcement agencies.

Wisconsin state law already requires stores to keep paper records of who sells them what, and there are similar databases elsewhere in the state. But opponents say that the big difference is that info on electronic media is exempt from being entered into those database records. Requiring more personal information may end up harming businesses that depend on secondhand goods.

Capt. Jim Wheeler of the Madison Police Department stated the current system isn't effective in helping police investigate the tens of thousands of transactions a year that may involve stolen electronics.

"We need to work in a timely manner," Wheeler said. "Plus, we need to have a deterrent effect. People need to know that if they're going to take stolen goods someplace, the serial numbers are going into a database and this is going to be matched up with things that are reported stolen."

Currently the database system has been tested at two local stores. Investigators entered in the names of several individuals with criminal records, and were able to match one of whom had recently sold 47 Wii controllers over the course of a single month.

Source: Madison.com [http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/blog/article_666fc230-e08d-11e0-881f-001cc4c03286.html]

Image: Flickr [http://www.flickr.com/photos/maveric2003/209607696/]

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ToastiestZombie

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Mar 21, 2011
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This can only lead to Fox News saying that so or so sick bastard had been playing grand theft auto, CoD, Manhunt etc, and he had been inspired and the videa game has warped his fragile little mind!
 

Louzerman102

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Mar 12, 2011
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This is a wonderful and perfect idea, after all, in the history of the internet no computer database has ever been compromised and posted publicly. [/end sarcasm]

On the other hand if it can help find who stole my television that would be nice.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I'm sorry, while perhaps well intentioned, I don't think the goverment should have a right to this kind of information. If I decide to sell something I own, that's a personal matter. Among other things if I'm doing something like selling off a hard earned video game collection because I desperatly need money, the last thing I want is for that to be noticible in some kind of database, it being embarassing enough.

I understand the goverment wants to make it harder for thieves to fence goods, but this steps over a number of lines that shouldn't be crossed.

If this does stand however, I suggest the goverment next require every sleeping surface to have cameras attached to them. This in order to record people having sex, so the goverment can database everyone's behaviors and kinks. This way when there is a sex offense they can check the database for likely suspects. You know, if your trying out bondage with the wife, and someone finds a dead hooker with tie marks, the police should know enough to come to your house to ask questions since you could be involved.... well that, and Uncle Sam just really, really, needs his porno you know? :)

I do wonder how long before we not only see the above, but a requirement that the goverment wire everyone's houses. Sort of like how heavily wired the UK's streets are already. The right to take a dump privatly is overvalued compared to the good that can come from using constant toilet surveillance to keep a constantly updated DNA/Dietary tracking database for law enforcement purposes. Not to mention the goverment being able to use a DNA trail to determine your location via restroom use.
 

RollForInitiative

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Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
 

genericusername64

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Before people start flaming like its vietnam I'd like to point out that its a proposal, it probably won't go into effect, so there's no need to get angry.
 

alwaysrockon

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RollForInitiative said:
Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
There exists a quote for that..
"Those who would give up liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither"

But that's just my point of view.
 

Micalas

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I'd like a show of hands for who read the title and thought this was being proposed by EA, Activision, Ubisoft, ect.
 

RollForInitiative

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alwaysrockon said:
RollForInitiative said:
Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
There exists a quote for that..
"Those who would give up liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither"

But that's just my point of view.
That's precisely what living under Government is. What's your point?
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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alwaysrockon said:
RollForInitiative said:
Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
There exists a quote for that..
"Those who would give up liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither"

But that's just my point of view.
So you're an anarchist?
 

Jamash

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Jun 25, 2008
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In using the database, there's concern that police could potentially build profiles on people based on the music they listen to or games they play.
Call me naive, but why would the police make a musical taste profile of people?

I can understand racial profiling and the police making assumptions about someone based on their appearance, e.g wearing gang colours or sporting prison tattoos, but how would knowing someone's musical taste be of any use to Law Enforcement, and how would they apply it practically?

Would they have some kind of music recognition software attached to their police cruisers and can people's car stereos? Would the police be granted new powers to stop and listen to people's iPods on the street? Couldn't this type of profiling be foiled by public radio or just by people listing to music that wasn't to their taste?

Also, couldn't the police already do this by looking on something like Last FM or any other internet site where people willingly share their musical tastes?

Besides, the information that they would get from second hand sales would most likely pertain to music that people didn't like or have grown out of, which is why they are selling it.
 

RonHiler

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I don't really see the problem. If you are not doing anything wrong, this has no effect on you. On the other hand, if some asshat breaks into my house and takes all my games, it would be nice if the police had access to a database like this so that there is some chance they could catch the rat bastard before they did it to someone else.

But then, I've always been more victim's rights than criminal's rights in my leanings. But that's just me.
 

manythings

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Jamash said:
In using the database, there's concern that police could potentially build profiles on people based on the music they listen to or games they play.
Call me naive, but why would the police make a musical taste profile of people?

I can understand racial profiling and the police making assumptions about someone based on their appearance, e.g wearing gang colours or sporting prison tattoos, but how would knowing someone's musical taste be of any use to Law Enforcement, and how would they apply it practically?

Would they have some kind of music recognition software attached to their police cruisers and can people's car stereos? Would the police be granted new powers to stop and listen to people's iPods on the street? Couldn't this type of profiling be foiled by public radio or just by people listing to music that wasn't to their taste?

Also, couldn't the police already do this by looking on something like Last FM or any other internet site where people willingly share their musical tastes?

Besides, the information that they would get from second hand sales would most likely pertain to music that people didn't like or have grown out of, which is why they are selling it.
The same reason the FBI tracked the books people checked out of the library, because a phrenologist told them to. You should read up on "Red Flags" and the other bat shit insane things that indicate people are criminals. On a side note Crimial profilers have a 2% hit rate at the best of times placing them slightly above psychics and well below monkeys with lists and darts.

OT: How could I beat this system?.. My names is Joey Joe Joe Shabado... Junior *wink*, and I live in {abandoned building}. My phone number is 555-5555.
 

Hulyen

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Apr 20, 2009
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This is already done in some areas of WI - all the police use it for is to cross-reference serial numbers to find stolen systems.
 

The Random One

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alwaysrockon said:
RollForInitiative said:
Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
There exists a quote for that..
"Those who would give up liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither"

But that's just my point of view.
Ha ha, hilarious! The liberty of not having someone write down my name!

Oh, wait... you're serious.
 

Riicek

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Oct 24, 2008
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RollForInitiative said:
Overreact much? I'm fine with them taking all the information about these materials that they want. I really couldn't care less. I'm all for making some small personal sacrifices in order to ensure that some asshat somewhere suddenly can't make a living stealing from others.
Guess what? Some asshat somewhere will always be able to make a living stealing from YOU (and others.) I thought this was common knowledge among the tech savvy, and especially gamers (see : piracy), but no matter how many measures you put in place to prevent something, it will still happen. People will still be able to steal, and indeed, fence their stolen goods. Just like people will continue breaking and pirating games, and jail-breaking IPhones.

I'm not saying that we should abandon all preventative measures concerning crime. Only the ones that infringe upon the freedoms and privacy of law abiding citizens. And you "being fine" with it doesn't mean that there are others who are "fine" with the erosion of fundamental rights.
 

ItsAPaul

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Mar 4, 2009
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Uh, I already have to fill out this information in Florida (especially for video games) so I'm not seeing the issue.