Max Payne 3 Fights Gamer Nostalgia

Greg Tito

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Sep 29, 2005
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Max Payne 3 Fights Gamer Nostalgia



Rockstar's fighting between the nostalgia that gamers have for the series and bringing in new players.

Dan Houser is the lead writer of Max Payne 3 - the same position that he held on GTA IV - as well as the cofounder and VP of Creativity at Rockstar Games in New York City. After Take Two Interactive bought the rights to the Max Payne series from Remedy Entertainment in 2002, and we eventually found out that Rockstar would develop the sequel in 2009, fans of the first two games were a bit surprised. How could the makers of GTA make Max Payne as good as it was? Now that the first trailer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112909-Goodbye-Noir-The-New-Look-of-Max-Payne-3] reveal a differently toned game, those fans are confused by the shift from the gritty New York streets that were as much a character as the eponymous detective was. Houser says that he must fight gamer nostalgia in order to make a modern game.

"I think the challenge of nostalgia is a profound one, because one thing about videogames is your memory tends to remove the horrendous," Houser said. "[Games] become these great, perfect experiences. It's definitely a challenge to get the right pitch when you want to appeal to the fans of the original and bring in a new audience."

Houser believes that strong writing is what will elevate games. "If games are to be the next major form of creative consumption, art, cultural expression or whatever the correct term is, then strong narrative has to be part of that," he said. "If the mechanics are fine and the story is ridiculous, the experience is much diminished."

For whatever reason, Houser's script demanded that Max depart his streets and head to sunny Brazil. We don't know very much about the details of why and how Max Payne needs to go there, and that veil of secrecy is very much intentional.

"It's really important to us that the games [feel] kind of magical," Said Houser. "It might annoy people that we don't give out more information, but I think the end point is people enjoy the experience. The less they know about how things are pieced together and how things are broken down and what our processes are, the more it will feel like this thing is alive, that you are being dragged into the experience. That's what we want."

Whatever I might think about the changes Houser makes to Max Payne, I have to respect his opinions on maintaining the mystery of games. That's something Rockstar does really well, and I will withhold judgement on Max Payne 3 until I play the actual game.

Source: Variety [http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118045632]

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Baresark

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I'm a bit annoyed that they are taking it out of the city environment. No offense to your "greatly aspiring narrative", but putting the setting in a tropical climate with lots of lush jungle isn't inspired at all. It's literally the way every game has gone in the last 5 years. I'm not convinced. A new character is doable, especially if he/she is well written. But a whole new setting is most likely a mistake. Especially when you look at how important that setting was in previous games, both in terms of use and protagonists.

Does anyone remember that scene where you fight your way up to an apartment, only to jump out the window to land on top of the train. I was in awe.
 

Xanadu84

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Baresark said:
...putting the setting in a tropical climate with lots of lush jungle isn't inspired at all. It's literally the way every game has gone in the last 5 years.
To quote Inigo Montoya, "I do not think that word means what you think it means"

Sorry, improper use of the word, "Literally" is a pet peeve of mine.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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I don't hold out much hope the way big companies are making games lately. I'll believe it when I see it.

Max Payne 2 had you defending a guy in a cartoon mascot costume before the bomb in the oversized head explodes. I doubt moments like that will be in the new game, what with all the "grimdark" realism-focused stuff lately.
 

Jagger916

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Baresark said:
but putting the setting in a tropical climate with lots of lush jungle
São Paulo is a large city with a higher crime rate than New York. It's dreary and hottest it's ever been is something like 94 °F. It's not tropical at all.
 

Woodsey

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"Dan Houser is the lead writer of Max Payne 3 - the same position that he held on GTA IV"

I'm afraid this is going to become 'my thing' if I bang on about it any more but... I'll just say that's nothing to be excited about.

I do like Max's new look though.
 

PurePareidolia

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Does it have to be nostalgia talking if you expect Film Noir from a franchise based on Film Noir meets the Matrix?

I get it if you want to tell a new story, but if you made a Fallout game without the post-nuclear wasteland, it wouldn't be Fallout. Fallout 3 was a completely different gameplay style to 1 and 2 but it was still recognizable as Fallout.
 

Jagger916

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Matthew94 said:
"I think the challenge of nostalgia is a profound one, because one thing about videogames is your memory tends to remove the horrendous," Houser said. "[Games] become these great, perfect experiences.


He is implying Max Payne had horrid parts to it.

Bullshit, I'm playing MP1 right now and it's still fantastic, it has no bad parts.
Platforming needle thin walk ways with a baby constantly crying in the background that screams at you if you fuck up?
 

Jagger916

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Matthew94 said:
Jagger916 said:
Matthew94 said:
"I think the challenge of nostalgia is a profound one, because one thing about videogames is your memory tends to remove the horrendous," Houser said. "[Games] become these great, perfect experiences.


He is implying Max Payne had horrid parts to it.

Bullshit, I'm playing MP1 right now and it's still fantastic, it has no bad parts.
Platforming needle thin walk ways with a baby constantly crying in the background that screams at you if you fuck up?
I literally played that bit 1 hour ago. I finished it in less than 5-6 minutes, not a big deal.
It still was a low point. Even though I still loved the atmosphere it created for the first 1-2 minutes.
 

Rasmus Emilsson

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The thing is, The city was a big part of the narrative force in the first parts. It was a metaphor for the loneliness and bitter cold in max heart.
 

Baresark

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Xanadu84 said:
Baresark said:
To quote Inigo Montoya, "I do not think that word means what you think it means"

Sorry, improper use of the word, "Literally" is a pet peeve of mine.
OutrageousEmu said:
Xanadu84 said:
Baresark said:
snip
As is misusing the phrase "the way every game has gone in the last five years". He's using it to mean "three games tops in the last 5 years have used the jungle setting, and even then those three started in said setting and moved away from it".

Unless he knows absolutely nothing.
It was actually meant as a form of embellishment. I didn't mean to insult the local English Nazis. Not every game in the last 5 years has been in a tropical jungle setting, clearly. My use of the word literally was this one: Used to acknowledge that something is not literally true but is used for emphasis or to express strong feeling. I know they used the word in the definition, but this is what the results of googling "literally definition" were. Also, this was not constructive at all. But, glad everyone got to say their piece. ;-p

To emphasize my point, this is from "Thefreedictionary.com"-

Usage Note: For more than a hundred years, critics have remarked on the incoherency of using literally in a way that suggests the exact opposite of its primary sense of "in a manner that accords with the literal sense of the words." In 1926, for example, H.W. Fowler cited the example "The 300,000 Unionists ... will be literally thrown to the wolves." The practice does not stem from a change in the meaning of literally itselfif it did, the word would long since have come to mean "virtually" or "figuratively"but from a natural tendency to use the word as a general intensive, as in They had literally no help from the government on the project, where no contrast with the figurative sense of the words is intended.
Jagger916 said:
Baresark said:
but putting the setting in a tropical climate with lots of lush jungle
São Paulo is a large city with a higher crime rate than New York. It's dreary and hottest it's ever been is something like 94 °F. It's not tropical at all.
I stand corrected. I just hate the idea of moving any story from a good strong setting like a city, especially when the previous iterations were in a city. Though, good writing usually makes good use of the setting. Also, nowhere in the article does it tell the actual location of the game, besides "sunny Brazil". So, I wasn't aware it was taking place there. I only know that Brazil is 60% covered by the Amazon basin and gets more than 80" of rain fall per year. So, I'm sure after that you can figure out where I was coming from.
 

Jagger916

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Baresark said:
I stand corrected. I just hate the idea of moving any story from a good strong setting like a city, especially when the previous iterations were in a city. Though, good writing usually makes good use of the setting. Also, nowhere in the article does it tell the actual location of the game, besides "sunny Brazil". So, I wasn't aware it was taking place there. I only know that Brazil is 60% covered by the Amazon basin and gets more than 80" of rain fall per year. So, I'm sure after that you can figure out where I was coming from.
Yes, I can see that. Many sites(The Escapist) have been horrible with misrepresentation. "Sunny Brazil" is only half of it. Another popular thing is to point out how "un-noir" it seems when the person saying such things has no idea what noir is.
 

teh_gunslinger

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Hell, I actually love Housers writing. GTA4 is the best GTA game so far by a long stretch. So, damn it, you idiot, make a new game. Let Max rest. He bloody well earned it.

He doesn't deserve to be dragged to Modern Warfare 2 and made to cover behind crates in a bloody cover system. Payne always jumped in front of the bullets.

It's a damn disgrace. Also, from your screenshots it looks like you're making Kane & Lynch Visits Brazil! At least make it look interesting!

And please stop taking cheap shots by using the Max Payne 2 music. That music belongs in a better game that whatever you're making.

Edit: Or is it Bruce Willis starring as John MacPayne in Die Hard 5: Pay'n your dues?
 

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
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Jagger, granted I've never been to Brazil and didn't look into the climate of Sao Paulo, but the images from the MP3 certainly play up Brazil as a hot place. Maybe that's part of why we're confused.