Online Gaming Blues

Zoran Iovanovici

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Online Gaming Blues

When a game mixes solo play with multiplayer co-op, things don't always turn out for the best.

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Feb 18, 2009
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I know this isn't possible on consoles, but it surprises me that when it comes to taking servers down for PC games the code for the multiplayer portion isn't released so that if there is still some kind of community presence it can maintain itself. Of course, there's probably legal reasons but as long as the fans aren't making a profit off it I can't see why publishers would object.
 

Jimi Bove

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Jan 29, 2011
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I think this only really happens on consoles. The typical console gamer will rent a game and blow through it in a few months (or buy it and sell it back afterwards), never touching it for a second playthrough or more multiplayer. This is only strengthened by the fact that console multiplayers have a very limited life because they have company-run servers that need to be maintained. PC gamers, on the other hand, typically keep their games forever, and it shows. Every single ancient multiplayer component I've ever played on a PC game, from a few years old to decades old, has had at least a few lag-free players ready to go.

However, this doesn't make the PC superior--it merely means game developers need to have console play-styles in mind more when they develop their multiplayer. Co-op should be separate and, preferrably, on a split-screen. When it's integrated into the singleplayer, it shouldn't be easier than singleplayer. This was one thing Brink actually got right (besides the crap AI that threw its intended design out the window). Games that rely so heavily on multiplayer to be completed should be advertised very strongly as such, and perhaps even deliberately kept alive with patches and DLC. Players that want a game-enriching multiplayer, like in Demon's Souls, but who don't have enough money to jump on all these games on release, are going to have to accept that it just isn't possible on consoles until developers start accommodating the blow-through-a-game style. Which sucks, because if they don't have the money to jump on all these games, I doubt they can go buy a gaming PC.
 

JaceArveduin

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Let's put it this way, the ROTWK servers went down over a year ago and you can still find at least one game in progress when you hit Gameranger. Of course, most of the players are from Europe, so peak times are awkward during the week.
 

ulizez89

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I all ways wanted to know this: is there a page where one can propose to play an old game online, something like a forum or chat that you could say "hey, who want to play a 1 vs 1 in Age of Wonders? this saturday 21.00 UTC-03:00"?

There are tons of people who like old games (just look at GOG), we just need a place to come together ^_^.

PD1: I know there is such web for age of empires series, but...... i mean more in general

PD2: is the author refering to demons soul or dark souls????????
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Grinnbarr said:
I know this isn't possible on consoles, but it surprises me that when it comes to taking servers down for PC games the code for the multiplayer portion isn't released so that if there is still some kind of community presence it can maintain itself. Of course, there's probably legal reasons but as long as the fans aren't making a profit off it I can't see why publishers would object.
Well, those publishers probably want you playing their new titles.

I'm not sure it's impossible on consoles, though.
 

Albino Boo

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Grinnbarr said:
I know this isn't possible on consoles, but it surprises me that when it comes to taking servers down for PC games the code for the multiplayer portion isn't released so that if there is still some kind of community presence it can maintain itself. Of course, there's probably legal reasons but as long as the fans aren't making a profit off it I can't see why publishers would object.
Well, those publishers probably want you playing their new titles.

I'm not sure it's impossible on consoles, though.

The real reason is that, in most cases, the code isn't owned by the games developer. They buy a developers license on one of the game engines which includes the net code.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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albino boo said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Grinnbarr said:
I know this isn't possible on consoles, but it surprises me that when it comes to taking servers down for PC games the code for the multiplayer portion isn't released so that if there is still some kind of community presence it can maintain itself. Of course, there's probably legal reasons but as long as the fans aren't making a profit off it I can't see why publishers would object.
Well, those publishers probably want you playing their new titles.

I'm not sure it's impossible on consoles, though.

The real reason is that, in most cases, the code isn't owned by the games developer. They buy a developers license on one of the game engines which includes the net code.
What would be the legal position of a fan who made a hack to allow a custom built interface/network for their favourite game? Something like forged alliance forever for SupCom is what I'm thinking.
 

The Random One

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This is, of course, part of the obsession gaming industry has with the new. No other medium is so paranoid about keeping up what is going on right now. You can talk to people about music from a decade ago, movies from the sixties or books from the nineteenth century more easily than you can talk to people about a 2008 game. I always felt this should stop - it's why people equate the gamer subculture with mindless consumerism.

Of course, the devs are to blame too. If you release a game with multiplayer and then fail to keep it interesting enough that people come up to with, you have failed those who bought your game. But then again, this happens because the industry is built in a strange lopsided way so that pretty much only the first month's worth of sales matters, again because of the obsession with the new.

That said, if someone wants to play Quarrel or FUEL with me, I'm all for it.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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Jimi Bove said:
I think this only really happens on consoles. The typical console gamer will rent a game and blow through it in a few months (or buy it and sell it back afterwards), never touching it for a second playthrough or more multiplayer. .
hahahaha...

what? (I mean seriously?)

anyway...see this is my problem with multiplayer...as soon as it becomes important to the game then that game has a shelf life....

it also preasures you into "buying it ASAP before it dies" not everyone can afford the new releases, and as somone who often takes their time with games its an annoying trend
 

JaceArveduin

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Vault101 said:
Jimi Bove said:
I think this only really happens on consoles. The typical console gamer will rent a game and blow through it in a few months (or buy it and sell it back afterwards), never touching it for a second playthrough or more multiplayer. .
hahahaha...

what? (I mean seriously?)

anyway...see this is my problem with multiplayer...as soon as it becomes important to the game then that game has a shelf life....

it also preasures you into "buying it ASAP before it dies" not everyone can afford the new releases, and as somone who often takes their time with games its an annoying trend
Yeah, kind of like how LOTR: Conquest died out, though that was probably more due to the fact it was a bad game*

*According to all reports I've seen

The SM seems to think I have an Inkling. What's an Inkling?
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I've said similar things for a long time now, and to be honest I think this is something that needs to be addressed legally. A game like the mentioned "Castlevania" might be unplayable without other people, but even well past it's prime they are willing to sell you the game knowing damn well that it's basically a lemon now.

I've been of the opinion that game developers should be required by law to make it so any game they sell is playable and enjoyable by the purchuser at any time. This means that if the community is dying they should be required to say intergrate bot support with appropriate and functional AI to simulate other players.

Games that require servers to function should be required to have a trust fund in force to continue the support of the servers and personel to run them indefinatly. Similar to say what a rich guy does for his spoiled kids to make sure they will never have to work. A big pile of money that generates an increasing amount of interest which is in turn able to be drawn on or used for a specific purpose.

I go further on the latter point in saying that anyone who sells digital property should be in a similar situation (STEAM, GoG, etc...) not to mention MMOs. I was there when they took down the "Star Wars Galaxies" servers and there was really no excuse for that other than pure greed. Had they been required to back the game with a trust that would have been a non-issue.
 

Baresark

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While I enjoyed both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls as an nearly exclusively single player experience, I can see the point the article was making. I do not agree that it's a shell of a game without the online component either. Anyone who has played those games extensively knows that you simply tune out the glowing runes on the ground that give you messages, and ignore blood spots too. I also have to say that nothing is worse than being in a part of the game that is hard and getting attacked by a black phantom.

This is the failings of an online world. A game with an integrated MP component to the main game is just a time bomb. It's gonna go off and people are going to get caught in the blast. For the most part, I won't touch a game like this. The exceptions for me were the Left4Dead franchise... well, that's it really. And that game is still going strong as hell. I have people on my steam friends list that play that game every single day. PC games tend to be aimed (at least the good ones) at the long haul. Console games are ridiculously short lived. What are the odds I am gonna find a functioning online component when I can buy it new for $20? There is little hope.

I don't mind there being an optional online component that will not be available one day. But I cannot purchase a game on a console that has a compulsory online component. That is why I avoided the aforementioned Castlevania game like the plague. It's just a short lived money grab with there being no intention of support in the next few months. What makes it unreasonable is the fact that you do hit a wall without cooperative help from others. This is part of the reason why the propensity for companies to make online games is just ridiculous and destructive.
 

Sylveria

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Kwil said:
Well.. that's certainly one way to combat used game sales.
I see it more as a reason not to buy the game at all. There's certainly plenty out there that offers a robust single player experience. Why spend $60 on game that's going to be, essentially, unplayable in a matter of months.
 

Sylveria

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Therumancer said:
I go further on the latter point in saying that anyone who sells digital property should be in a similar situation (STEAM, GoG, etc...) not to mention MMOs. I was there when they took down the "Star Wars Galaxies" servers and there was really no excuse for that other than pure greed. Had they been required to back the game with a trust that would have been a non-issue.
To play devil's advocate a bit, when you get basically any online service, you have to agree to this big wall of text. Part of that wall of text says, in short, "we can turn this off whenever we want for whatever reason we come up with."

I certainly understand the anguish of SWG players. Those people were dedicated to that game for years and had large social circles based around it and now it's gone. But, I think we all have to realize that some day all that stuff we have online is gonna be gone. Sooner or later, they will stop supporting it. It's an inevitability. No company is going to write up a EULA that says they'll support the functionality of a game for all eternity.

If you oppose the prospect that the game/whatever will be shut off some day, perhaps it is not something you should get involved in. I didn't get Castlevania HD for the exact reason listed in this article.. I didn't know anyone who played it and I didn't think the player base would last. But, lord knows I've bought plenty of MMOs that are now ghost towns or gone. It's just the way things go. My TV can't display my SNES without me getting some elaborate switcher system to upscale it.... time and technology march forward.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Baresark said:
I don't mind there being an optional online component that will not be available one day. But I cannot purchase a game on a console that has a compulsory online component. That is why I avoided the aforementioned Castlevania game like the plague. It's just a short lived money grab with there being no intention of support in the next few months. What makes it unreasonable is the fact that you do hit a wall without cooperative help from others. This is part of the reason why the propensity for companies to make online games is just ridiculous and destructive.
exactally...and its also the reason a game with a "6 hour campagn" is UN-FUCKING-ACCEPTIBLE

its like selling me somthign thats half useless....thats becaue I generally feel that If Im not willing to play full price for it then I dont want it at all (and Im very genrious with what Ill pay full price for)

when are they going to get it through the thick heads..you tack multiplayer on where its not needed, give us somthing thats criminally short and sit their and scratch your heads as to why things arnt going so well...then point ans scream at used games

fucking idiots...the lot of them
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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The Plunk said:
I'm worried that this will happen to me if I put off playing Dark Souls for too much longer.

.
in hignsight I probably shouldnt have got dark souls (but I was too curious to see how hard it really was)

considering the lack of time I have (on top of other titles) the diffuculty of the game and my lack of patience this one will probaby die on me
 

Albino Boo

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Grinnbarr said:
What would be the legal position of a fan who made a hack to allow a custom built interface/network for their favourite game? Something like forged alliance forever for SupCom is what I'm thinking.

Largely depends on the license terms with regards to mods. So times you can pretty well mod everything, others nothing at all. I used to play guildwars a lot and one point 2-3 years ago some players were talking about making private gvg servers. They approached Izzy, the head dev, on vent one night and he basically said it was a no no. If it was attempted they would hit them a cease notice asap. The reason was that the same net coded is going into GW2 and if you could make a hack server for GW1 you could write hacks for GW2. The decisions are not always about money, its also about protecting the players in future games.