Hey, Kid, Got a Dollar?
There's a darker side growing in the free to play games market.
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There's a darker side growing in the free to play games market.
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That's the thing... What are they doing wrong in the eyes of the law?RvLeshrac said:As long as no one is complaining to the FTC about them, they're going to continue. They're also going to get shadier and shadier as time passes.
But if you file FTC complaints you're entitled and stuff!RvLeshrac said:As long as no one is complaining to the FTC about them, they're going to continue. They're also going to get shadier and shadier as time passes.
These things are largely advertised as free, which is intentionally misleading. That is the basis for an FTC investigation EVEN IF they decide the practice is kosher.Gather said:That's the thing... What are they doing wrong in the eyes of the law?
Either this or another crash when people get sick of being nickel and dimed.Therumancer said:Bssically, the industry is not going to hit the "reset button" to the pre-microtransaction days of fully self contained products unless they are forced to do so.
Possible, but unlikely. The reason simply being that they brought in all of the casuals and mainstream gamers, the lowest human denominator being ripe for exploitation. That's why I feel that it's actually the place of the goverment to step in to stop that exploitation when it's going on, since it's not liable to be a case where backlash straightens things out.Crono1973 said:Either this or another crash when people get sick of being nickel and dimed.Therumancer said:Bssically, the industry is not going to hit the "reset button" to the pre-microtransaction days of fully self contained products unless they are forced to do so.
The casuals are the least loyal group and the first to abandon them. It's why Nintendo is now regretting that they lost core gamers this gen. For all their success, they know they can't live on casual gamers, many of who are playing games on their phones now.Possible, but unlikely. The reason simply being that they brought in all of the casuals and mainstream gamers, the lowest human denominator being ripe for exploitation.
The 1983 crash was NA only wasn't it, it was still a crash.Even if there was a backlash in the US, you have to consider that the gaming industry will still be propping itself up with the Asian market where standards are substantially differant.
If if the government does nothing, it might cause a crash there too as parents begin to push their kids away from playing games because of trust issues.After all this whole "microtransaction" thing is pretty much what companies were doing throughout Asia. You'll notice some of the more progressive nations in the area like Japan are already making moves to limit this, starting with the "Gacha" content (there was an article about this). In general if even Japan sees a problem with some of the bizzare marketing that takes place there, the Western World should start to take notice.
Yes but more like the 2 year gap between the crash in 1983 to the release of the NES in 1985. A crash would mean that retailers would want no part of gaming and it would no longer be mainstream, for NA.Right now if we see a crash, it's likely to only be an American (or perhaps western) crash and it just means we'll lose out in this competitive market, and see things shift back to total asian domination like we did.
Well, the greedy nature of western game companies doesn't make me want to save them. I almost feel like Japanese companies are doing all the microtransactions to keep up with western companies. For example, Final Fantasy XIII needed no DLC according to SE, it's sequel has ridiculous amounts. That's a quick transition.Now that Western games are starting to dominate I think we kind of need to take action to prevent the people in the industry from being too exploitive, in part because of the fact that they could destroy themselves with another crash which doesn't benefit anyone.
That sounds like a plan, all DD should be insured. This idea that you could lose all your Steam games one day is scary.Now, I myself have pointed out an alternative here. I feel that if we're going to stand by trade in virtual property, that virtual property needs to be protected and assigned actual value. Among other things the companies doing this should be required by law to have their games backed by a trust to ensure indefinate operation, a trust being a bunch of money investd in such a way so as to continually grow and only allow a portion of the interest to be withdrawn at any given time. The idea here being that to create a game based on virtual property the company should have to not only develop a game, but have a trust in place that produces enough money to keep the servers operating indefinatly. Likewise the companies involved should be held liable for the value of the property in the game, perhaps even being required to insure themselves. Meaning that if they are going to charge you say $25 for something in a game, that item is worth $25, and all NDAs aside, if that property is lost they should be required to refund the price of the purchuse, especially since it exists on their servers and is under their protection.
This is fine too, at the very least, no microtransactions in games lower than a Mature rating.That's the start of a big mess of course, which is why I suggest it's easier to just ban microtransactions and virtual property of the sort we're seeing, and require that games be self contained.
Thank you for this. As a gamer and an educator, this has been eating at me immensely. Whenever I raise my voice against it, all I hear back is, "Well, they're companies. They're supposed to make money." Either that, or they insult the people who "fall for it," calling them some variant of stupid consumerist sheep.Jeremy Monken said:Hey, Kid, Got a Dollar?
There's a darker side growing in the free to play games market.
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Because the majority of gamers are entitled and believe every game should be perfect for them and they shouldn't have to look for it. It's the reason you hear so many clowns going on about how the RPG genre is dead and has been converted into things like Mass Effect 2 and 3. A simple Google search shows hundreds of RPGs that are as oldschool as it gets--think, Baulder's Gate--for sale from independent and larger companies all over the world. Hell, there's a sale on right now for one such new RPG series on Steam.Strain42 said:There are tons of great games that go on sale for free on the App Store every single day. (and I mean ones that were paid apps that become free, not the ones that are just made free and make money through in-app purchases)
Yes, there are a fair share of games that abuse the hell out of in-app purchases (I myself am very annoyed at what happened to To-Fu: The Trials of Chi, especially considering that's a game I actually PAID for and they're still expecting in-app purchases from me...)
But if you ignore the games that just try to squeeze the money from the players wallets, you eventually realize that the iOS market is a market where you can get literally HUNDREDS of good games for FREE if you just take the time to look around and do some research.
I currently have 127 games in my iTunes (and I've deleted a lot of them) and I've only paid for...MAYBE a quarter of them. The rest I just found by checking the top free games, and thanks to the Youtube channel TheGameTrail for often uploading videos of the best free games of the day.
I'm a little sad that a market that offers awesome free games to people gets so much hatred from gamers, especially when one of the biggest complaints in the gaming community these days is that games are too expensive.
Off topic really, but I think the majority of people here at the Escapist WANT stronger ratings, so long as when a game is given a 18 or 'Mature' rating, it's allowed to be that, violence and sexual content should be allowed. We WANT clear ratings so that parents can do their job (and admittedly so we can blame them when they buy GTA for their 8 year old despite being advised not to by the store clerk.)Grey Day for Elcia said:Yes, let's place the onus on the businesses whose job it is to make money (doing anything less is grounds for legal action from shareholders) and not on the parents.
This mentality people have nowadays of wanting the world to work for them instead of them actively, you know, being a parent, is mind boggling. But of course you only agree with me when it comes to things you do like; say, they want to change video game rating laws to make it easier for parents - up in arms, the lot of you. But because it's EA and them damn businesses trying to make money, suddenly everyone is worried about the children.
That's my issue. It would be nice if the companies made it easier for parents, but that's not their job and it shouldn't be expected. It's this whole mentality people have of wanting everything to be easy and everyone else doing their bit to help them. If you want your child to be able to use, say, an iPhone, it's your job to know the ins and outs of it.SenseOfTumour said:I'm normally the one going 'do some damn parenting' but so much of this stuff is a mystery to parents and I don't think the industry does much to help educate them.
Had to read this article twice to even attempt to get at what Mr. Monken was even talking about. No.. No... I know what he "wanted" to say, but what he was really talking about.Dastardly said:Jeremy Monken said:Hey, Kid, Got a Dollar?
There's a darker side growing in the free to play games market.
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Recently Peter Moore discussed how retailers where "purveyors of the digital media". It's an interesting use of the word. On the one hand we could say they are purchasing for resale intellectual property like an art dealer, on the other, and taking a look at the theme of DICE 2012 this year. Gamer life cycle: Eat Sleep Play. The idea seems to be that interacting with these modern forms of artifice are necessarily essential. At least, that's the idea. Food dealers. I don't know about "supposed" to make money, but one must assume for reason's sake, that was and is the intent of these companies and individuals. There is a double speak and double standard for sure.Thank you for this. As a gamer and an educator, this has been eating at me immensely. Whenever I raise my voice against it, all I hear back is, "Well, they're companies. They're supposed to make money." Either that, or they insult the people who "fall for it," calling them some variant of stupid consumerist sheep.
It's not anything new though, some of the Freud family went into administration, politics, and advertising. Using the skills and techniques pioneered by Sigmund. The VAST majority of video "games" are hardly anything more than skinner boxes with 60 dollar cover charges. I have attended management meetings at Chemical companies FFS that have openly stated "we do not advertise based on empirical information, we advertise based on implication (implied value)."I find it reprehensible enough that we allow these companies to produce games that target adults. They use psychological tools and tricks that have resulted from billions of dollars of research into how to manipulate other human beings... but those "customers" don't have access to billions of dollars of research into how to recognize and resist that manipulation. Not everyone sees things with perfect clarity.
Considering that it is a business that has grown by leaps and bounds, I would have to disagree, however, for the smaller developer ohh.. I mean "purveyor" of food stuffs, the kiddie market is untapped, and heck, one doesn't even have to really try very hard. The younger the audience (even mentally) the less one has to "hide" the fleecing.Especially children. See, that's where it gets just plain bleak. There are plenty of adults who have learned to resist the manipulation of advertisements -- even those as insidious as the in-game variety -- but they weren't always that way.
It's a Terminator plan. You're going to grow up to be too smart to fool, so we're going to "go back in time" and get you before you become that smart. And then, still believing you're too smart to be fooled, you'll dance to our tune.
Really astute statement... going to have to write that down. Thing is, "gamification" looks to be just another pop term to generate buzz, to create a market, in which a new platform can be used to sufficiently justify the creation of crap content. Hell, I have looked into it to see if it was feasible to get a government contract for development. MANY companies are. I didn't look into it to "educate", I looked into it as a profit vehicle. Your an educator, it's for you to call bullshit on this stuff.Now for a separate rant: The increasing "gamification" of education is doing the same thing. It's not new, either. We've been doing it for a long time. We reward kids for every tiny "accomplishment." We're constantly telling them how smart they are for tying their shoes or wearing pants correctly. Rewards and praise are a currency, and we're inflating it.
Needs pilot programs and empirical results held against a control or a series of controls to work out what is working and what isn't. Until there is data it's a hypothesis at best.We're too interested in the short-term results -- 'Hey, I made science class feel like a game, and the kids liked my class more! Grades even went up a little!" Yeah, this year. The next teacher is going to have to do the same thing, but with bigger and better rewards.
Reward systems have demonstrated a plateau of engagement as long as the reward is scheduled in a linear progression. Look at something like the "loot grinder", Diablo and others... MMO's are notorious for this. Gambling centers discovered this as well. Random reward schedules break up this plateau. The question is, are the audience engaged or grinding out? Needs more evidence and data to support it one way or the other.What's more, there's plenty of evidence that these hyperactive reward schedules are actually reducing student achievement in the long-term. Consider the "Book-It" program.
The fact that the game was systematized to facilitate a segway to corporate product "pizza" would of been the first indicator. However, it is hard to say "at the time" if the marketing folk at the pizza joint were aware or even cared about the long term results. Teaching someone to "care" is extremely difficult if not impossible. You do remember that it was sponsored by Pizza-Hut... so there we are mission accomplished.Book-It, sponsored by Pizza Hut, is a reading incentive program. I went through it in elementary school. I'd read a book, write a short "book report" on it, and get a certificate for a free personal pan pizza at Pizza Hut. The idea is to reward students for reading.
The real result? Kids in programs like this are reading shorter books. And when the program ends, or they grow out of it, the reading habit doesn't continue. Why? Because the game was the point of the activity, instead of the activity being its own point.
Good and Evil are impossible to put to quantitative structure outside of the cultural paradigms from which the terms are being defined. That is to say that they are indicators of "limits" of acceptable mores.It's the same problem of "motivating through manipulation" that we see in these "free to play" games... it's just that we believe the mechanism is being used for good instead of evil. Short term results, long term harm. But hey, that's the next year teacher's problem, ain't it?