56: My Second Job
- Thread starter The Escapist Staff
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The way people get in guilds sometimes does take away from the fun of WoW, when i first got it, that is all i wanted to do, but after people started inviting their friends and making too many seperate sects, it made it hard to find people to run with. People are all about what they want but dont want to help the rest of the guild.
Its pretty shitty.
Its pretty shitty.
Good Article.
Guild management is an underappreciated job. Raiding, in most of the current MMOs, really brings out the issues even more. WoW requires 40 people for one full raid. Not everyone can always be there; it is a game after. Thus, guild sizes for successful raiding guild are usually about 60-80 people.
Being a good diplomate is key. In group of that size one person is not going to get along with someones. Cliques form making other members feel left out. MMOs pull in the most diverse people, more so then any other hobby. When you have an assistant district attorney playing along side a supermarket produce clerk, or a father of 3 standing along side a 15 year old highschool freshmen, things do get a little out of hand just by the difference between players. Nationality, religion, age, ethnicity, education can all be totally different. MMOs are one of the few hobbies that are practically open to everyone. That diversity sometimes clashes hard in guild affairs. One persons joke is another persons insult. And because it is a game via the internet, people don't always conduct themselves in the best possible manner.
Making sure that everyone can still work/play together is the most important job. Rules must be fair, equal and applied to everyone. One must have quick decision making abilities when the rules dont cover something; finding advisors that are good and more importantly that you can trust; being an administrator of guild currency. The job description of a Guild Master is usually even longer then that. Most people don't realize it.
People believe that guild leadership is easy, but you can tell that long term guild always have a good command structure in place and the ones that break apart quickly did so because of failure at the top.
So, when you find a good leader, make sure to stick around. Once good leadership is in place, the rest of the problems will usually correct themselves over time.
Lastly,
Whitney, thank you. I dont think the game would be the same without you in charge.
Iceman
Guild management is an underappreciated job. Raiding, in most of the current MMOs, really brings out the issues even more. WoW requires 40 people for one full raid. Not everyone can always be there; it is a game after. Thus, guild sizes for successful raiding guild are usually about 60-80 people.
Being a good diplomate is key. In group of that size one person is not going to get along with someones. Cliques form making other members feel left out. MMOs pull in the most diverse people, more so then any other hobby. When you have an assistant district attorney playing along side a supermarket produce clerk, or a father of 3 standing along side a 15 year old highschool freshmen, things do get a little out of hand just by the difference between players. Nationality, religion, age, ethnicity, education can all be totally different. MMOs are one of the few hobbies that are practically open to everyone. That diversity sometimes clashes hard in guild affairs. One persons joke is another persons insult. And because it is a game via the internet, people don't always conduct themselves in the best possible manner.
Making sure that everyone can still work/play together is the most important job. Rules must be fair, equal and applied to everyone. One must have quick decision making abilities when the rules dont cover something; finding advisors that are good and more importantly that you can trust; being an administrator of guild currency. The job description of a Guild Master is usually even longer then that. Most people don't realize it.
People believe that guild leadership is easy, but you can tell that long term guild always have a good command structure in place and the ones that break apart quickly did so because of failure at the top.
So, when you find a good leader, make sure to stick around. Once good leadership is in place, the rest of the problems will usually correct themselves over time.
Lastly,
Whitney, thank you. I dont think the game would be the same without you in charge.
Iceman
This corporatization of what should be camaradarie is a natural by-product of the group's expansion. Any social institution will begin to fragment at around twelve members, detrimentally so at about thirty to forty. When high level raids require forty participants and upwards there really is no room for the tribal nature of a guild's origins. What was a collection of individuals becomes something bigger, an organism unto itself, that brings with it all the illogic, dissent, and hypocrisy of a corporation.
I don't suppose the unavoidable nature of human nature is any consolation to a stressed out guild leader, though. Perhaps a relic of the business world, the motivational poster, will suffice. Picture a cat on a clothesline: Hang in there, Baby!
Probably not.
I don't suppose the unavoidable nature of human nature is any consolation to a stressed out guild leader, though. Perhaps a relic of the business world, the motivational poster, will suffice. Picture a cat on a clothesline: Hang in there, Baby!
Probably not.
I tried, I really did, to feel a little sorry for you...but honestly all I got from your article was that you're a whiny, self-pitying martyr. Poor me! WoW's not fun anymore! But I have to stay...for my guildies!!! Woe! Someday, the game will be fun again! Until then, I guess I'll just trudge on, because I know they'd all be lost without me!!
Come on. Really.
Come on. Really.
mattwing, something definately says to me that you have never "walked a mile in Whitney's moccasins".
I've been a guildleader and she is spot on. If you reread her article, martyrdom is not the point. It's the fact that, though it is alot of work that usually detracts from your personal game, the enjoyment comes when it all comes together for everyone's benefit in the guild, new content opened, new goals achieved, nice loot (which can be a nightmare to come up with a viable system to distribute fairly) and just generally being a part of helping make alot of folks, within your guild and sometimes allied guilds, game experience as enjoyable and as enriching as possible, which I too always enjoyed. But she's right..many times it can feel like a second job.
So you think she thinks they'ed be lost without her? I don't think she believes that at all, but more importantly, could you or would you be willing to step into her shoes to do the same "second job"?
Somehow I just don't think you would.
I've been a guildleader and she is spot on. If you reread her article, martyrdom is not the point. It's the fact that, though it is alot of work that usually detracts from your personal game, the enjoyment comes when it all comes together for everyone's benefit in the guild, new content opened, new goals achieved, nice loot (which can be a nightmare to come up with a viable system to distribute fairly) and just generally being a part of helping make alot of folks, within your guild and sometimes allied guilds, game experience as enjoyable and as enriching as possible, which I too always enjoyed. But she's right..many times it can feel like a second job.
So you think she thinks they'ed be lost without her? I don't think she believes that at all, but more importantly, could you or would you be willing to step into her shoes to do the same "second job"?
Somehow I just don't think you would.
I have, in fact, been a guild leader. Not in WoW, but in other MMO's. Was it a responsibility? Sure. But it was a responsibility I chose. Just like Whitney chose to be the leader of her guild. Game's not fun for her anymore? Maybe she should step down and let someone else run the guild for a while. Maybe she should ask her guild officers to take on some of the responsibilities. Or maybe she should just give herself an attitude adjustment. Whenever you get a group of people together, there's going to be conflict and problems, just like there's going to be laughs and the fun of a shared experience. Her article conveys that she takes the whole thing far too seriously...KeptWandering said:
Sounds like Martyrdom to me...the poor dear...she's sacrificing her escape so her guild can raid...if only there was guild housing in WoW...she could put a big cross on the wall of the guild house and nail her avatar to it whenever she was feeling unappriciated.Saint Whitney Butts said:
I've haven't walked in her footsteps, I chose a different path. I chose to remember that in the end, it's a game, it's an escape. Guild leaders set the tone for their guild. I kept the tone light and fun, instead of turning it into drudgery.
While well written, this article has the taste of a disgruntled blogger?
If it is a sympathetic ear she was looking for, she'll not find with me. If the job is not what you want and doesn?t reward you as you feel it should, quit.
If it is a sympathetic ear she was looking for, she'll not find with me. If the job is not what you want and doesn?t reward you as you feel it should, quit.
***matthewwing said:
From Dictionary.com:
martyr
n 1: one who suffers for the sake of principle [syn: sufferer] 2: one who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty for refusing to renounce their religion v 1: kill as a martyr; "Saint Sebastian was martyred" 2: torture and torment like a martyr [syn: martyrize, martyrise]
***
While you may have been a guild leader of another MMO, you must admit that every guild is different no matter what game it may be. Also keep in mind that WoW is a wholy different beast with a much different demographic than other MMO's. Thus you have a differnt type of player that has not been previously defined by any other MMO which can make guild management all the more difficult.
In Whitney's case, she is stating that her guildies are her friends, and one does not leave their friends high and dry. I don't think she's asking for pity. You can not fault a person for wanting to make others happy. That said, if she is truly unhappy then I think her guildies would understand her need to step down.
matthewwing:
I have, in fact, been a guild leader. Not in WoW, but in other MMO's. Was it a responsibility? Sure. But it was a responsibility I chose. Just like Whitney chose to be the leader of her guild. Game's not fun for her anymore? Maybe she should step down and let someone else run the guild for a while. Maybe she should ask her guild officers to take on some of the responsibilities. Or maybe she should just give herself an attitude adjustment. Whenever you get a group of people together, there's going to be conflict and problems, just like there's going to be laughs and the fun of a shared experience. Her article conveys that she takes the whole thing far too seriously...
WOW! A guildleader in MORE than one other MMO and you've never had a problem as leader that didn't detract from your personal gameplay. WOW! How perfect you are! Everything always runs smoothly and is always "light and fun". Just perfect! You've GOT to invite me to join your next guild.
While I will definately agree that it's important to keep things "light and fun", but you seem to claim that running a guild is mostly "wine and roses" and mostly a fun job (make no mistakes...I AM saying it IS a job)? I think it's apparent in her op/ed that there certainly is a good bit of responsibilities delegated on several levels and layers if you look at her quote you used below. Most other guildleaders I've met and myself included have been honest enough to express that, as Whitney said in her op/ed that, "Lately, my escape is not an escape.". Doesn't mean it's ALWAYS like that, just that sometimes the "job" of Guildleader does feel like a second job. I personally think that is the point of her article.
Whitney Butts:
"Lately, my escape is not an escape. It's a second job where I'm CEO. The currency is DKP and the employees are guild members. My subordinates are officers, class leaders and raid leaders. Logistics are raid strategies, personnel issues are drama bombs and company politics are guild politics.
I do it because I love to help; I love to see so many people happy when a new goal is achieved; I love that feeling of success, but it's really not that much fun. I sacrifice my escapism so others can enjoy theirs. I do my job as guild master, I make sure as many people as possible are happy and I keep things moving, but it's not fun - it's work."
Matthewwing:
Sounds like Martyrdom to me...the poor dear...she's sacrificing her escape so her guild can raid...if only there was guild housing in WoW...she could put a big cross on the wall of the guild house and nail her avatar to it whenever she was feeling unappriciated.
I've haven't walked in her footsteps, I chose a different path. I chose to remember that in the end, it's a game, it's an escape. Guild leaders set the tone for their guild. I kept the tone light and fun, instead of turning it into drudgery.
WOW! You are so perfect, I just can't argue with you. Always light and fun, never any drudgery. lol I am a little surprised that someone so "light and fun" goes so far out of their way to be so critical and condesending.
Like I said, I really personally believe you missed the point of the article. Could it be that YOU were trying so hard to make her a Martyr? As far as myself, I like the article. Makes some good points and there have been times that I have felt the same, but then again...I'm not perfect, just a regular "run of the mill" human bean. Does that make me a Martyr too? lol
I think Myan's post above makes some good points about Wow being "a wholy different beast" and a nice summation of what Whitney was trying to convey in her article as well as a nice definition of Martyr.
I have, in fact, been a guild leader. Not in WoW, but in other MMO's. Was it a responsibility? Sure. But it was a responsibility I chose. Just like Whitney chose to be the leader of her guild. Game's not fun for her anymore? Maybe she should step down and let someone else run the guild for a while. Maybe she should ask her guild officers to take on some of the responsibilities. Or maybe she should just give herself an attitude adjustment. Whenever you get a group of people together, there's going to be conflict and problems, just like there's going to be laughs and the fun of a shared experience. Her article conveys that she takes the whole thing far too seriously...
WOW! A guildleader in MORE than one other MMO and you've never had a problem as leader that didn't detract from your personal gameplay. WOW! How perfect you are! Everything always runs smoothly and is always "light and fun". Just perfect! You've GOT to invite me to join your next guild.
While I will definately agree that it's important to keep things "light and fun", but you seem to claim that running a guild is mostly "wine and roses" and mostly a fun job (make no mistakes...I AM saying it IS a job)? I think it's apparent in her op/ed that there certainly is a good bit of responsibilities delegated on several levels and layers if you look at her quote you used below. Most other guildleaders I've met and myself included have been honest enough to express that, as Whitney said in her op/ed that, "Lately, my escape is not an escape.". Doesn't mean it's ALWAYS like that, just that sometimes the "job" of Guildleader does feel like a second job. I personally think that is the point of her article.
Whitney Butts:
"Lately, my escape is not an escape. It's a second job where I'm CEO. The currency is DKP and the employees are guild members. My subordinates are officers, class leaders and raid leaders. Logistics are raid strategies, personnel issues are drama bombs and company politics are guild politics.
I do it because I love to help; I love to see so many people happy when a new goal is achieved; I love that feeling of success, but it's really not that much fun. I sacrifice my escapism so others can enjoy theirs. I do my job as guild master, I make sure as many people as possible are happy and I keep things moving, but it's not fun - it's work."
Matthewwing:
Sounds like Martyrdom to me...the poor dear...she's sacrificing her escape so her guild can raid...if only there was guild housing in WoW...she could put a big cross on the wall of the guild house and nail her avatar to it whenever she was feeling unappriciated.
I've haven't walked in her footsteps, I chose a different path. I chose to remember that in the end, it's a game, it's an escape. Guild leaders set the tone for their guild. I kept the tone light and fun, instead of turning it into drudgery.
WOW! You are so perfect, I just can't argue with you. Always light and fun, never any drudgery. lol I am a little surprised that someone so "light and fun" goes so far out of their way to be so critical and condesending.
Like I said, I really personally believe you missed the point of the article. Could it be that YOU were trying so hard to make her a Martyr? As far as myself, I like the article. Makes some good points and there have been times that I have felt the same, but then again...I'm not perfect, just a regular "run of the mill" human bean. Does that make me a Martyr too? lol
I think Myan's post above makes some good points about Wow being "a wholy different beast" and a nice summation of what Whitney was trying to convey in her article as well as a nice definition of Martyr.
matthewwing, KeptWandering and everyone else:
Let's keep the personal attacks and snarkery to a minumum here. And by "minumum" I mean, "knock it off." Try not to make us regret opening the subject of WoW in our nice, little forum.
Thank you.
/moderator crap
Let's keep the personal attacks and snarkery to a minumum here. And by "minumum" I mean, "knock it off." Try not to make us regret opening the subject of WoW in our nice, little forum.
Thank you.
/moderator crap