Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
First:although it may seem stupid you should warn people of spoiler-sure who reads an article on a game they have not played,but some people do so just give them a heads up.
Second:while I agree that playing the game the way you suggested has it's merit's [allowing a greater comparison to other FPS] it's not the right way to go about it,the greater impact comes from unexpectedly making you look at your morales and actions you choose without realising it. If you go in with a plan/know what's going to happen it loses that sense of moral questioning and just becomes a game used to contrast/judge other games of the genre instead of yourself.
Intentionally being an asshole misses the point with the game. You go in trying to be a hero, you want to be a moral compass opposing the heel, but ultimately your actions and outcomes are a gulf away from your intentions and desires.
Critical miss gets the point: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10253-Every-Other-Game-Ever
The difference with Spec Ops is that you're the villian, and there's no hero.
Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
I agree with Knight, you want the gamer to play as "themselves" making the choices they would have made. Unfortunately Spec Ops failed to do that for me, because I tried to avoid using white phosphorous on the civilians, but the game forced me to kill them to proceed.
Also, according to the devs, having Parker hand over the gun at the end makes no difference since he's at that point dying in the helicopter crash.
Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
Intentionally being an asshole misses the point with the game. You go in trying to be a hero, you want to be a moral compass opposing the heel, but ultimately your actions and outcomes are a gulf away from your intentions and desires.
Critical miss gets the point: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10253-Every-Other-Game-Ever
The difference with Spec Ops is that you're the villian, and there's no hero.
Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
Intentionally being an asshole misses the point with the game. You go in trying to be a hero, you want to be a moral compass opposing the heel, but ultimately your actions and outcomes are a gulf away from your intentions and desires.
Critical miss gets the point: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10253-Every-Other-Game-Ever
The difference with Spec Ops is that you're the villian, and there's no hero.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, PLAY THE GAME. There are quite a few story elements that you can't just pick up from (what, you're using Critical miss as source material?) forums.
Although it would be more correct for me to say in these games that any consistent approach is a valid one and by that I mean simply picking actions that aren't contradictory, unless you can justify them in the wider context or emotion of the situation (i.e. shooting into the crowd as an angry reaction).
The first time I played, I approached it as the main character seemed to do. I had a mission and I was doing the right thing. Therefore in my mind I was a good person, despite the increasingly mounting evidence to the contrary and the ease with which we both forgot the original mission. So I didn't do pointless callous things like leave someone who betrayed me to die or kill both hostages.
But I do agree that you're right on the ending regardless of how you played. If you let Konrad shoot you, you're in denial. If you shoot yourself, you're not facing the consequence. If you fire on the troops, that just makes you an even worse person. On my third playthrough, I concluded that I was a powderkeg waiting to blow if I returned home, so I simply provoked the army troops by fired into the air. That said, the ending where you surrender your gun makes the most sense, both in terms of feeling responsible as a 'good' player or continuing that desire to survive as a 'bad' player...
I'm sorry, but this feels like someone is trying to make it feel like the only way to "get" the message of spec ops is to play it "HIS" way.
Everyone should experience it their own way, man. That's what makes it personal. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to experience the game.
knight steel said:
the greater impact comes from unexpectedly making you look at your morales and actions you choose without realising it. If you go in with a plan/know what's going to happen it loses that sense of moral questioning and just becomes a game used to contrast/judge other games of the genre instead of yourself.
Simply playing it as an asshole would have had very little impact on me because I would just easily rationalized it as "I'm just pretending to be an asshole, this is nothing at all like who I really am!".
I played it by following my own moral code as much as possible, and to the end, I never gave up on fixing what I had done. I never gave up on my hero instinct...and..well...
Oh the hell with it. Here's my experience with the game:
In normal gameplay, I was as aggressive and nasty as possible. Anything to get through the enemy to make sure me and my pals lived to see another day.
Whenever I had a choice to make, I tried to do the right thing.
I saved the CIA guy, thinking that if I was fast enough, I could save everyone....I wasn't. I resolved to do better. To not let anyone else die.
Once I determined that I HAD to use the WP, I fired it, and my mental defense mechanism kicked in. I was actually GIGGLING as I fired it and saying "oh God...this is too easy...This just feels WRONG. REALLY wrong!". And then I saw that cluster of white dots and went "OH GOSH, THEY HAVE RESERVES! BURN IT! BURN IT!". Needless to say, walkign through the carnage was a shocking and sobering experience, and when I hit the ditch.........Yeah. Yeah, I felt like shit. I had broken the promise I had made before, not to let anyone else die when I could help it. I had killed them myself. Yeah, it wasn't quite my fault...But I felt like enough of the blame fell on me that I HAD to now fix things. no matter what.
At the prisoner's choice, I put down the snipers. I was NOT playing Konrad's little game. If he was responsible for the state of dubai, then he bore half the blame, and I would see him brought down. I could still fix it.
When the water was destroyed, I blamed myself for believing Riggs (the other CIA guy). I actually thought he could help, but no...he was just out to kill everyone and I played right into his hands...At that point, I resolved to not stop until Konrad was taken out, and I had found more water or evacuated the few that were still alive. I would FIX my mistakes. I could still fix it, right?
I put a bullet into the CIA guy's head. No one deserves to die by fire, no matter what they did.
At Lugo's death...It really hit me. I liked Lugo. And he had died in one of the worst possible ways imaginable and it really awakened my rage. It's one of those situations that is guaranteed to make me furious enough to kill with no remorse at all. I wanted revenge. REALLY bad. I primed the grenade launcher on my gun, aimed it at the crowd... And then, the armor piercing question hit my brain. "Can I blame these people?". ...I couldn't blame them. We had come through their city like a pack of demons, burning their family, destroying their water...And then one of the monsters that had done this to them was theirs to punish. They had felt the same thirst for vengeance that I did. I tried to dodge the rocks but soon realized it was them or me. I fired into the air, praying it would work...and it did. I refused to cross that Line.
And then...in the end...I found the tower. There was still water. I could still fix it! Still clinging to my desire to do the right thing, I confronted Konrad and found the truth. There was no Konrad. All the blame was solely on me. I was no hero. Every time I had tried to fix things I only made them worse. I should have turned back. All of this was my fault. Everyone died because of me. But no. I wasn't done. I could STILL fix it...right?
Then he pulled the gun on me. I aimed it at him...then stopped. I couldn't blame Konrad. That's ludicrous. He was dead. I was the only one to blame. I pointed the gun at myself, and stopped. Killing myself would solve nothing, and would doom the remaining civilians. I COULD STILL FIX THIS. Right? ....Right...?
So I hesitated, not sure what to do. In the end, I let Konrad finish his countdown. I wasn't going to blame him. I knew what I had done. But I wasn't gonna kill myself either. I didn't shoot. I would even have lowered my gun and walked away if I could have. ...And then the bastard shot me. I wasn't expecting him to be able to actually kill me, him being just a part of my mind. And yet...I died.
And then...in the following scene, I saw that the water I had seen before was actually not even there. It was just my imagination... Even if I would have lived, everyone was dead anyway. I couldn't have saved anyone no matter what I did. Trying to trust myself to do the right thing had only broken dubai more. I should have just left. Could I have still fixed it? WRONG.
It was pretty crushing, seeing my efforts to TRY and do the right thing all come to nothing.
THAT hit me. Playing like an asshole would have given me a mental shield to hide behind. The game wouldn't have been calling out ME, it would have been calling out my asshole persona.
For me, I was going to be death, destroyer of worlds. What the CIA couldn't do with it's campaign, I will do so...Dubai was lost and damned, best to kill a dying beast when I have the chance rather than make it suffer another day.
The only regret was that I was unable to give them a simple mercy killing and instead was forced to drag the dying beast's carcass around without mercy.
I don't get why you acted like saving the CIA guy instead of the civilians was the more brutal option, he had valuable intel and thus was worth more than the civilians. As for the ending I surrendered, no point in adding to an already massive bodycount. I could never justify suicide.
What I felt made this game so strong was that everything you did after the white phosphorous scene was an attempt to try to redeem yourself, not realizing that the scene had made both Walker and the rest of his squad go completely mad, and any attempt at rationalizing their actions only resulted in further unnecessary bloodshed. The fact that I tried to make up for the crimes committed, and then got slapped in the face with what had actually happened in the process(spoiler: genocide was committed), was the important part.
Thus I don't agree with the fact that acting like a psychotic asshole makes the game make more sense. It's a pretty overt criticism of the genre even if you play the game while trying to "make amends", so I don't see why killing for the sake of killing would make the game feel better.
Intentionally being an asshole misses the point with the game. You go in trying to be a hero, you want to be a moral compass opposing the heel, but ultimately your actions and outcomes are a gulf away from your intentions and desires.
Critical miss gets the point: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10253-Every-Other-Game-Ever
The difference with Spec Ops is that you're the villian, and there's no hero.
I agree with Bob. I'm one of those people who refuses to shoot civilians in games and tries to do the "right thing", but even so, Spec Ops reveals that being a soldier in a combat zone with civilians, you are the bad guy. And if you are the good guy, you will eventually become the bad guy.
Spec Ops tells the tale of U.S. foreign policy. All conspiracy theories aside- as far as the U.S. government is concerned, American soldiers are in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to support democracy, freedom and human rights - all the good intentions. But when you put soldiers, civilians, terrorists and cultural differences into one pot, things will go batshit regardless. Approaching this game being intentionally violent does miss the point entirely.
I'm sorry, but this feels like someone is trying to make it feel like the only way to "get" the message of spec ops is to play it "HIS" way.
Everyone should experience it their own way, man. That's what makes it personal. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to experience the game.
knight steel said:
the greater impact comes from unexpectedly making you look at your morales and actions you choose without realising it. If you go in with a plan/know what's going to happen it loses that sense of moral questioning and just becomes a game used to contrast/judge other games of the genre instead of yourself.
Simply playing it as an asshole would have had very little impact on me because I would just easily rationalized it as "I'm just pretending to be an asshole, this is nothing at all like who I really am!".
I played it by following my own moral code as much as possible, and to the end, I never gave up on fixing what I had done. I never gave up on my hero instinct...and..well...
Oh the hell with it. Here's my experience with the game:
In normal gameplay, I was as aggressive and nasty as possible. Anything to get through the enemy to make sure me and my pals lived to see another day.
Whenever I had a choice to make, I tried to do the right thing.
I saved the CIA guy, thinking that if I was fast enough, I could save everyone....I wasn't. I resolved to do better. To not let anyone else die.
Once I determined that I HAD to use the WP, I fired it, and my mental defense mechanism kicked in. I was actually GIGGLING as I fired it and saying "oh God...this is too easy...This just feels WRONG. REALLY wrong!". And then I saw that cluster of white dots and went "OH GOSH, THEY HAVE RESERVES! BURN IT! BURN IT!". Needless to say, walkign through the carnage was a shocking and sobering experience, and when I hit the ditch.........Yeah. Yeah, I felt like shit. I had broken the promise I had made before, not to let anyone else die when I could help it. I had killed them myself. Yeah, it wasn't quite my fault...But I felt like enough of the blame fell on me that I HAD to now fix things. no matter what.
At the prisoner's choice, I put down the snipers. I was NOT playing Konrad's little game. If he was responsible for the state of dubai, then he bore half the blame, and I would see him brought down. I could still fix it.
When the water was destroyed, I blamed myself for believing Riggs (the other CIA guy). I actually thought he could help, but no...he was just out to kill everyone and I played right into his hands...At that point, I resolved to not stop until Konrad was taken out, and I had found more water or evacuated the few that were still alive. I would FIX my mistakes. I could still fix it, right?
I put a bullet into the CIA guy's head. No one deserves to die by fire, no matter what they did.
At Lugo's death...It really hit me. I liked Lugo. And he had died in one of the worst possible ways imaginable and it really awakened my rage. It's one of those situations that is guaranteed to make me furious enough to kill with no remorse at all. I wanted revenge. REALLY bad. I primed the grenade launcher on my gun, aimed it at the crowd... And then, the armor piercing question hit my brain. "Can I blame these people?". ...I couldn't blame them. We had come through their city like a pack of demons, burning their family, destroying their water...And then one of the monsters that had done this to them was theirs to punish. They had felt the same thirst for vengeance that I did. I tried to dodge the rocks but soon realized it was them or me. I fired into the air, praying it would work...and it did. I refused to cross that Line.
And then...in the end...I found the tower. There was still water. I could still fix it! Still clinging to my desire to do the right thing, I confronted Konrad and found the truth. There was no Konrad. All the blame was solely on me. I was no hero. Every time I had tried to fix things I only made them worse. I should have turned back. All of this was my fault. Everyone died because of me. But no. I wasn't done. I could STILL fix it...right?
Then he pulled the gun on me. I aimed it at him...then stopped. I couldn't blame Konrad. That's ludicrous. He was dead. I was the only one to blame. I pointed the gun at myself, and stopped. Killing myself would solve nothing, and would doom the remaining civilians. I COULD STILL FIX THIS. Right? ....Right...?
So I hesitated, not sure what to do. In the end, I let Konrad finish his countdown. I wasn't going to blame him. I knew what I had done. But I wasn't gonna kill myself either. I didn't shoot. I would even have lowered my gun and walked away if I could have. ...And then the bastard shot me. I wasn't expecting him to be able to actually kill me, him being just a part of my mind. And yet...I died.
And then...in the following scene, I saw that the water I had seen before was actually not even there. It was just my imagination... Even if I would have lived, everyone was dead anyway. I couldn't have saved anyone no matter what I did. Trying to trust myself to do the right thing had only broken dubai more. I should have just left. Could I have still fixed it? WRONG.
It was pretty crushing, seeing my efforts to TRY and do the right thing all come to nothing.
THAT hit me. Playing like an asshole would have given me a mental shield to hide behind. The game wouldn't have been calling out ME, it would have been calling out my asshole persona.
I think that the game hits the hardest if you get into it thinking that its just another modern warfare america-ho shooter.
Also they don't really judge or reward for any of the moral choices, the only thing that should motive you in them is the MORAL aspect of it, not the reward.
You pretty much instruct people what to do in the game, and looks like you're missing the forest from the threes a little bit.
Err Spec tops: the line is just a rip off of apocalypse now. Colonel Konrad is a dead give away, he is Kurtz like character with the name of the writer of the book on which the film is based. John Konrad = Joseph Conrad
Intentionally being an asshole misses the point with the game. You go in trying to be a hero, you want to be a moral compass opposing the heel, but ultimately your actions and outcomes are a gulf away from your intentions and desires.
Critical miss gets the point: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10253-Every-Other-Game-Ever
The difference with Spec Ops is that you're the villian, and there's no hero.
Again, and I can't stress this enough, PLAY THE GAME. There are quite a few story elements that you can't just pick up from (what, you're using Critical miss as source material?) forums.
I'm sorry, but this feels like someone is trying to make it feel like the only way to "get" the message of spec ops is to play it "HIS" way.
Everyone should experience it their own way, man. That's what makes it personal. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to experience the game.
knight steel said:
the greater impact comes from unexpectedly making you look at your morales and actions you choose without realising it. If you go in with a plan/know what's going to happen it loses that sense of moral questioning and just becomes a game used to contrast/judge other games of the genre instead of yourself.
Simply playing it as an asshole would have had very little impact on me because I would just easily rationalized it as "I'm just pretending to be an asshole, this is nothing at all like who I really am!".
I played it by following my own moral code as much as possible, and to the end, I never gave up on fixing what I had done. I never gave up on my hero instinct...and..well...
Oh the hell with it. Here's my experience with the game:
In normal gameplay, I was as aggressive and nasty as possible. Anything to get through the enemy to make sure me and my pals lived to see another day.
Whenever I had a choice to make, I tried to do the right thing.
I saved the CIA guy, thinking that if I was fast enough, I could save everyone....I wasn't. I resolved to do better. To not let anyone else die.
Once I determined that I HAD to use the WP, I fired it, and my mental defense mechanism kicked in. I was actually GIGGLING as I fired it and saying "oh God...this is too easy...This just feels WRONG. REALLY wrong!". And then I saw that cluster of white dots and went "OH GOSH, THEY HAVE RESERVES! BURN IT! BURN IT!". Needless to say, walkign through the carnage was a shocking and sobering experience, and when I hit the ditch.........Yeah. Yeah, I felt like shit. I had broken the promise I had made before, not to let anyone else die when I could help it. I had killed them myself. Yeah, it wasn't quite my fault...But I felt like enough of the blame fell on me that I HAD to now fix things. no matter what.
At the prisoner's choice, I put down the snipers. I was NOT playing Konrad's little game. If he was responsible for the state of dubai, then he bore half the blame, and I would see him brought down. I could still fix it.
When the water was destroyed, I blamed myself for believing Riggs (the other CIA guy). I actually thought he could help, but no...he was just out to kill everyone and I played right into his hands...At that point, I resolved to not stop until Konrad was taken out, and I had found more water or evacuated the few that were still alive. I would FIX my mistakes. I could still fix it, right?
I put a bullet into the CIA guy's head. No one deserves to die by fire, no matter what they did.
At Lugo's death...It really hit me. I liked Lugo. And he had died in one of the worst possible ways imaginable and it really awakened my rage. It's one of those situations that is guaranteed to make me furious enough to kill with no remorse at all. I wanted revenge. REALLY bad. I primed the grenade launcher on my gun, aimed it at the crowd... And then, the armor piercing question hit my brain. "Can I blame these people?". ...I couldn't blame them. We had come through their city like a pack of demons, burning their family, destroying their water...And then one of the monsters that had done this to them was theirs to punish. They had felt the same thirst for vengeance that I did. I tried to dodge the rocks but soon realized it was them or me. I fired into the air, praying it would work...and it did. I refused to cross that Line.
And then...in the end...I found the tower. There was still water. I could still fix it! Still clinging to my desire to do the right thing, I confronted Konrad and found the truth. There was no Konrad. All the blame was solely on me. I was no hero. Every time I had tried to fix things I only made them worse. I should have turned back. All of this was my fault. Everyone died because of me. But no. I wasn't done. I could STILL fix it...right?
Then he pulled the gun on me. I aimed it at him...then stopped. I couldn't blame Konrad. That's ludicrous. He was dead. I was the only one to blame. I pointed the gun at myself, and stopped. Killing myself would solve nothing, and would doom the remaining civilians. I COULD STILL FIX THIS. Right? ....Right...?
So I hesitated, not sure what to do. In the end, I let Konrad finish his countdown. I wasn't going to blame him. I knew what I had done. But I wasn't gonna kill myself either. I didn't shoot. I would even have lowered my gun and walked away if I could have. ...And then the bastard shot me. I wasn't expecting him to be able to actually kill me, him being just a part of my mind. And yet...I died.
And then...in the following scene, I saw that the water I had seen before was actually not even there. It was just my imagination... Even if I would have lived, everyone was dead anyway. I couldn't have saved anyone no matter what I did. Trying to trust myself to do the right thing had only broken dubai more. I should have just left. Could I have still fixed it? WRONG.
It was pretty crushing, seeing my efforts to TRY and do the right thing all come to nothing.
THAT hit me. Playing like an asshole would have given me a mental shield to hide behind. The game wouldn't have been calling out ME, it would have been calling out my asshole persona.
Fully with you on that. My own experience was a little different, but it boiled down to the same realization. And that's precisely what SO:TL is about. Not some arbitrarily decided "best way" to play it.
I was really looking forward to reading this incarnation of the The Time column. I was terribly disappointed by just how much it missed the point.
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