The Girl Who Died
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And this is exactly why I played all 3 of my playthroughs on Casual mode. I just didn't want to deal with characters I liked perma-dying because of my incompetence. I ended up restarting most missions upon character "KO" anyway (because I felt it was kind of cheap to sacrifice pawns with no repercussions).
Since I first played some of Lyn's Story of the Fire Emblem (7) GBA cartridge my cousin got for Christmas for the first time over a decade ago, I have played though a sum of games in the series several times each and eventually made an ironclad rule to never continue with casualties (or to use Jeigans) but I always remember the people who died the first time I beat a game but didn't respond. Rebecca, the Wildflower when you very first get her in FE7, Vanessa the Pegasus Knight in FE8 along with Moulder the Priest.
This rather reminds me of the only Fire Emblem game I've ever played... on the Game Boy Advance, according to Wikipedia it's the second in the series, and in Japan it holds the title Rekka No Ken or The Sword of Flame.
I restarted so many chapters to avoid character death, went back through loooong fights pretty damned often... but in the last battle I wound up losing Dorcas the axefighter to a critical hit. Wasn't the first time he'd been struck that fight, I was actually using him to run distraction and then get healed. Little did I know the toughest member of my team could be one-shotted.
The very next move, Eliwood struck the final blow against the dragon who just ended his brother-in-arms' life. Then I realized the weight of what had just happened. Dorcas joined the team to repay us for saving his wife, and now we had nothing but a corpse and a story to deliver back to her.
Didn't help that I was playing the game while deployed to the middle east. Never picked up another Fire Emblem game...
I restarted so many chapters to avoid character death, went back through loooong fights pretty damned often... but in the last battle I wound up losing Dorcas the axefighter to a critical hit. Wasn't the first time he'd been struck that fight, I was actually using him to run distraction and then get healed. Little did I know the toughest member of my team could be one-shotted.
The very next move, Eliwood struck the final blow against the dragon who just ended his brother-in-arms' life. Then I realized the weight of what had just happened. Dorcas joined the team to repay us for saving his wife, and now we had nothing but a corpse and a story to deliver back to her.
Didn't help that I was playing the game while deployed to the middle east. Never picked up another Fire Emblem game...
The deepest circle of hell is reserved for save scummers...
I like permadeath, its why I love xcom (and play ironman. It makes anything over normal difficulty stressful). Deaths on fire emblem always rang hollow with me. Its an rpg but no one says a word when a friend or comrade dies. There's no impact passed "my squad is now weaker". The game just carries on like they never existed.
I like permadeath, its why I love xcom (and play ironman. It makes anything over normal difficulty stressful). Deaths on fire emblem always rang hollow with me. Its an rpg but no one says a word when a friend or comrade dies. There's no impact passed "my squad is now weaker". The game just carries on like they never existed.
While true, I guess there are different strokes for different people. For instance, on my first playthrough, I let donnel and nowi die, because I was sick of constantly restarting and trying my best not to let anyone die. Except that last one was a bit of a bust, because I just can't get over the fact that I let someone die.bjj hero said:
At the same time though... I think the writer is onto something here with cheap deaths in FE, as far as I'm concerned. You see, you get a warning that things are arriving as reinforcements for the enemy. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how many, what kind of units and where will the units be standing. In that respect, I feel the game has to answer those questions to make it fair in my eyes.
Maybe they went for some kind of thing where war is chaos, so you just can't figure everything out from the outset ever. But to me, I like to have some hard numbers, not just 'oops reinforcements appeared and now someone in your army died!' Crits I can take, but not an unfair situation.
I sacrificed a couple of characters in 9, specifically Rolf and Reyson. Technically Reyson just got hospitalized, but it did cost me his services and filled the remander of the game with moments where I had a scenario in which everything would be perfect if I had him around.
In Awakening, I sacrificed one of the endgame Paralogue characters to get another, as the first one had two royal dynasty members of her exact class, had just been recruited last mission, and was kind of a jerk.
In Awakening, I sacrificed one of the endgame Paralogue characters to get another, as the first one had two royal dynasty members of her exact class, had just been recruited last mission, and was kind of a jerk.
I agree. The reinforcements in Awakening felt really cheap, due to the fact that they got their turn immediately after they arrived. At least in FE7, while it was still distressing when they arrived, you had a turn to react to them.
Awakening is relatively mild in that regard compared to New Mystery, since it gives you fair warning that they'll be showing up and indicates the general area. Also I'm pretty sure it only once dropped several high-movement units in the area you started in and warned you about that one in the briefing.zerotkatama said:
You should try xcom. There is fog of war so you can be methodically clearing out an alien site to find out youre sniper at the back has been flanked by crysalids or a flying disc. At that point youre in reap trouble. The maps are also not as scripted so its harder to predict than in games like shining force or FE.hickwarrior said:
I feel like the normal save scumming argument doesn't hold up when it comes to Fire Emblem games. There's no option to save mid-battle in Awakening, so your only checkpoints come in between chapters. Many chapters have enemies that spawn at the beginning of the enemy turn, which makes them impossible to prepare for, and many times a single death would start a chain reaction that leads to even more dying. If even a relatively expendable unit like Maribelle can alter the team dynamic, imagine what losing a top hitter would do.bjj hero said:
Not to mention there's the timesink. If you're half an hour into a battle and wind up with an unlucky death, you have to be willing to make up that half hour of gameplay if you want to save the character. It's not a case of "I'm just going to redo this one mistake". Radiant Dawn on the Wii let you save mid-chapter, which I refused to do when playing because it took all the tension out of the game. If you're playing on one of the harder difficulties in FE, keeping as many squadmates alive as possible is almost required.
Also, for clarification, I was playing Awakening on hard, not normal. I'm a seasoned veteran of the series, and Fire Emblem 7 on the GBA is one of my favorite games of all time. It was only natural I would skip the normal difficulty.
I know how you feel, man. I lost my favorite sniper when I assaulted the alien base for the first time, and I had to turn the game off for a while.Kalezian said:
R.I.P. Colonel Daniel "Longbow" Martin.
Even the Happiest of the Fire Emblem games have the most depressing ending depending on how many, who, and in what circumstances, some one died, because you live knowing what was sacrificed for your over all victory.
Also on the Xcom side, I treated it like Fire Emblem.
Who ever i got was a person, only ever altered their hair or armor color, and so many sad stories have come out of that. From the sole survivor from the tutorial mission becoming one of the first majors I had with the first sniper and assault trooper, How that same soldier was the first to die against the mutons. And later on the fresh medic that I got as a reward from one of the abduction missions bravely charging in to the heat of battle quickly becoming a captain but tragically had to be put down after a Crysalid infected her while she saved my assault man. and the All rookie mission when my best people were out with critical injures that was a bloodbath but produced the second of my two best snipers.
Fire Emblem, Xcom, and other games with that kind of permadeath can realy add so much more involvement in to the games, I see here that it can really bring out our emotions because it makes every character that much more precious. You dont just have a horseman, you have Stahl or Sully, you never have just a sniper, you have Col. Hwang Kim or Maj. Adriane Romanos
Also on the Xcom side, I treated it like Fire Emblem.
Who ever i got was a person, only ever altered their hair or armor color, and so many sad stories have come out of that. From the sole survivor from the tutorial mission becoming one of the first majors I had with the first sniper and assault trooper, How that same soldier was the first to die against the mutons. And later on the fresh medic that I got as a reward from one of the abduction missions bravely charging in to the heat of battle quickly becoming a captain but tragically had to be put down after a Crysalid infected her while she saved my assault man. and the All rookie mission when my best people were out with critical injures that was a bloodbath but produced the second of my two best snipers.
Fire Emblem, Xcom, and other games with that kind of permadeath can realy add so much more involvement in to the games, I see here that it can really bring out our emotions because it makes every character that much more precious. You dont just have a horseman, you have Stahl or Sully, you never have just a sniper, you have Col. Hwang Kim or Maj. Adriane Romanos
... and this is why I put sold my copy of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced after three battles.
Fuck permadeath. It serves no useful purpose other than to ruin a game.
If you disagree - good for you. There is clearly a following for such games. Enjoy them.
I will never, ever play one.
Fuck permadeath. It serves no useful purpose other than to ruin a game.
If you disagree - good for you. There is clearly a following for such games. Enjoy them.
I will never, ever play one.
Aww, I'd really come to like Maribelle during the game; she's uptight, but quite grounded, and always intends to help (her bonds with Frederick were hilarious as well). Not to mention, she found her niche in Sage; using high magic growth as Troubadour for offense, plus her naturally high skill made her a boss.
I managed to lose several main characters in chapter 3 during my first playthrough; Sumia, Kellam, Miriam, AND Lissa (about half your force in that chapter too!) I was steeled not to lose anyone else during the game.
I kind of wish there was some sort of relief from the fact that you lose both a comrade and a valuable part of your force in FE:A. Casual I'm aware of, but I'm finding it too easy to just move on with missions. Classic pushes me to the other end of the spectrum in a sense, that I found it too easy to restart a mission for a loss. I show the weakness of my will there, but maybe their ghosts still serve in battle, but it changes/prevents relationships between the living forces? I dunno.
Double Fine's Massive Chalice reminds me of FE:A, what with the multi-generational campaign; I have hopes that it can do something different with that!
I managed to lose several main characters in chapter 3 during my first playthrough; Sumia, Kellam, Miriam, AND Lissa (about half your force in that chapter too!) I was steeled not to lose anyone else during the game.
I kind of wish there was some sort of relief from the fact that you lose both a comrade and a valuable part of your force in FE:A. Casual I'm aware of, but I'm finding it too easy to just move on with missions. Classic pushes me to the other end of the spectrum in a sense, that I found it too easy to restart a mission for a loss. I show the weakness of my will there, but maybe their ghosts still serve in battle, but it changes/prevents relationships between the living forces? I dunno.
Double Fine's Massive Chalice reminds me of FE:A, what with the multi-generational campaign; I have hopes that it can do something different with that!
It would be awesome to see games make permadeath more meaningful, as opposed to just something that the player chooses to become invested into. I can't imagine how impossibly hard it would be to weave characters firmly into a story when each and every one of them can become expendable but it would be quite amazing if done right. Mass Effect seemed to be getting at the very beginnings of such a concept with Ashley and Kaiden but that wasn't mid-gameplay and the characters were very interchangeable.
Occasionally, Fire Emblem does recognize a character's death. Like with a poster above mentioning he lost Rolf in FE9, that's actually discussed with his two surviving brothers. If any of the other brothers die, the survivors will always at least have a line of two somewhere about them.
Although I get the spirit of the comments.
I usually do my first run of a Fire Emblem game on it's highest difficulty available, restarting after every death, and then play again on normal without ever restarting. I've only ever broke that pact once, when my Rolf died, because he was A) Blessed unto God-tier with the RNG and B) Like, twelve. I can't let this kid die, he's like the little brother I always wanted. That ended up getting 2nd most kills in the game.
Although I get the spirit of the comments.
I usually do my first run of a Fire Emblem game on it's highest difficulty available, restarting after every death, and then play again on normal without ever restarting. I've only ever broke that pact once, when my Rolf died, because he was A) Blessed unto God-tier with the RNG and B) Like, twelve. I can't let this kid die, he's like the little brother I always wanted. That ended up getting 2nd most kills in the game.
This was a very interesting article. I never played the games out of fear for something like what Bob went through, the constant save scumming in order to get the best endings for every character. That would just infuriate me if I ever hit a major obstacle.