Gaikai's European Launch Hampered by Slow Broadband Speeds

[Andy Chalk]

Gaikai's European Launch Hampered by Slow Broadband Speeds

Sony says slow broadband speeds have kept it from nailing down a timeline for a Gaikai rollout in Europe.

Sony picked up Gaikai last summer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118212-Sony-Buys-Gaikai-Cloud-Gaming-Service] for a hefty $380 million, with an eye toward using it as the basis for its own proprietary cloud gaming service. It hasn't had much to say about it since, however, beyond that it intends to roll the service out in North America sometime next year. In Europe, however, things are somewhat muddier.

"The plan is to begin with North America next year and the plan is to provide a streaming service that will allow for PS3 content initially to be streamed to firstly PS4 then PS Vita and then PS3," Sony Computer Entertainment Europe President and CEO Jim Ryan told Edge. "Now, and I touched upon these issues of broadband in Europe during the [Gamescom] presentation - Europe is of course on the roadmap for that service to be deployed at some point in the future, but for reasons outside of our control we don't yet have a timeline for it."

Sony didn't talk about Gaikai at Gamescom, Ryan explained, because the audience is primarily European, and "we didn't really want to start talking about the virtues of this great cloud-based service without knowing exactly when it'll come to Europe."

"We've got a roadmap, there's just a few bumps along the road that need to be ironed out," he added.

The Akamai "State of the Internet [http://www.akamai.com/html/about/press/releases/2013/press_072313.html]" report for the first quarter of 2013 listed the top ten countries with the highest "average measured connection speed" as South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Netherlands, Latvia, Czech Republic, Sweden, the U.S. and Denmark, with average speeds running from 8.2 to to 14.2 Mbps. The global average is 3.1 Mbps.

Source: Edge [http://www.edge-online.com/features/ps4-next-gen-rivalry-and-the-vita-rescue-plan-in-conversation-with-playstations-jim-ryan/#null]


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[mad825]

And experts in the field of the internetz would realise that speed tests don't reflect actual download speeds. CEOs are just as worse as politicians; not knowing real life.

 

[Weaver]

Welcome to the real world, Sony. I do wish we all had South East Asian levels of internet, but thems the breaks.

 

[RicoADF]

14mb/s and their the highest? *hugs his 100mb/s cable internet.

 

[saintdane05]

Gaikai Red!

Gaikai Blue!

Gaikai Green!

Gaikai Yellow!

Gaikai Pink!

INTERNET SENTAI! GAIIIIIIIIIKKKKAAAAIIII RAAAAAAANNNNGGGGERRRR!

<youtube=tKqZULFLEKs>

 

[medv4380]

It's not the speed! It's the latency you twits! As a nice catch 22 as you increase bandwidth we've increased latency. Gaikai was never going to work, and every netwok tech knew this from the start. Keep up the show because it's as funny as hell each time you people ignore the techs telling you its not possible with the current network.

 

[jayzz911]

14mb/s and their the highest? *hugs his 100mb/s cable internet.

hahaha. thats an average mate. i've got 150mbs and a mate of mine sweden has over 300 with some experimental fibre optics
so no, its nowhere near the highest xD

 

[RicoADF]

14mb/s and their the highest? *hugs his 100mb/s cable internet.

hahaha. thats an average mate. i've got 150mbs and a mate of mine sweden has over 300 with some experimental fibre optics
so no, its nowhere near the highest xD

I know its the average. Still seems low for nations at the top like Japan.
Honestly 100 is already more than enough, new games downloaded in a few minutes, honestly I cant see it getting any better than that.

 

[Vrach]

And experts in the field of the internetz would realise that speed tests don't reflect actual download speeds. CEOs are just as worse as politicians; not knowing real life.

Dunno, for me it's right on the money. As far as I know, the only reason for them not reflecting the real state would be if the server can't handle it. But latency has a lot more to do with services like this than download speeds.

Anyway, are they saying download speeds in Europe are worse than they are in NA? Afaik, NA's around 7 Mbps on average and I don't think Europe is far behind. Heck, I've got 10 Mbps as the most basic and cheapest internet package and I'm in Serbia, we're what you'd politely call a "country in development" in the sense that we're completely and utterly economically fucked. So I can't imagine major European countries and people in them who'd be interested in something like Gaikai having much less.

And as far as latency goes, that's up to them to set up their servers in the right places. Distribute them around well enough (1-3 centres can get the job done I reckon) and you're golden.

 

[Strazdas]

what is this Akamai report and why is it so wrong? My country averages above 25mbps and i personally got a 100mbps line which i coudl upgrade to 300 if i wanted. Lithuania should be on top of their results as it is number 1 in most reports anyway.

Welcome to the real world, Sony. I do wish we all had South East Asian levels of internet, but thems the breaks.

we (europeans) have good enough internet to stream at least 720p (PS3 resolution anyway) for around 90% of europe. real word disagrees with this article.

14mb/s and their the highest? *hugs his 100mb/s cable internet.

average. which seems to be highly underestimated.

It's not the speed! It's the latency you twits! As a nice catch 22 as you increase bandwidth we've increased latency. Gaikai was never going to work, and every netwok tech knew this from the start. Keep up the show because it's as funny as hell each time you people ignore the techs telling you its not possible with the current network.

fiber optics. i got 7ms latency within europe, 27ms outside. up to 50 you can play pretty much anything without lag. increasing batndwitch does not increase latency unless you use old copper cables.

Anyway, are they saying download speeds in Europe are worse than they are in NA? Afaik, NA's around 7 Mbps on average and I don't think Europe is far behind. Heck, I've got 10 Mbps as the most basic and cheapest internet package and I'm in Serbia, we're what you'd politely call a "country in development" in the sense that we're completely and utterly economically fucked. So I can't imagine major European countries and people in them who'd be interested in something like Gaikai having much less.

Comparing internet in North America you are better off comparing them with third world counries. from what this forum and reports they link to tell us they are still stuck in 1990 as far as internet goes.

 

[Teoes]

Yeah, they say 'Europe' but doubtless it's medieval UK dragging everyone down. Sorry, continental chums.

I also want to do my Bernard Woolley bit (look it up) and point out that one cannot iron roads.

 

[Shymer]

Don't be so sure Teoes. Depending on who you ask and how you measure it, the UK generally scores better than Germany and France in average access bandwidth. The launch of FTTC and availability of 100Mbps+ cable services has boosted synchronisation "speed" by more than 20% this year. Uptake of high capacity services is still low - possibly because not everyone sees the need for it. IPTV like YouView and the increasing number of Internet and HD-capable devices in the home is increasing traffic demand.

There is still a large number of people who cannot access higher capacity services, but 2/3 of UK fixed lines are on packages capable of greater than 10Mbps downstream.

This is classic chicken and egg. Sony are waiting for people to have faster Internet connections, people are waiting for services they want to use before they pay more for their Internet access. I think it's fair to say that uptake of high bandwidth Internet access has been lower than many Internet service providers wanted, which might make them think twice about how much they invest in 300Mbps FTTP-on-demand, which is being developed.

The UK is not a perfect market - there's a lot of old wiring, poor exchanges and "not spots", Ofcom is sluggish and misdirected, the "competition" for government BBUK money is a farce and a one-horse race - but in terms of availability of high performance Internet access services, we're nowhere near medieval.

 

[medv4380]

It's not the speed! It's the latency you twits! As a nice catch 22 as you increase bandwidth we've increased latency. Gaikai was never going to work, and every netwok tech knew this from the start. Keep up the show because it's as funny as hell each time you people ignore the techs telling you its not possible with the current network.

fiber optics. i got 7ms latency within europe, 27ms outside. up to 50 you can play pretty much anything without lag. increasing batndwitch does not increase latency unless you use old copper cables.

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

So rather than admit the GaiKai tech is for morons who think that they can just run their games in the "cloud" you'd rather say "Look at this tech that less than 1% even have. It can work, see."

GaiKai can't work without changing the entire infrastructure of the network. Heck your fiber dreams probably wont even correct the issue because Latency is an issue because of buffer bloat. When only 1% of users are using your side of the fiber network sure it runs with minimal latency, but put everyone on it an your buffers will be screwing with you again.

As for your latency lies. You're not getting 27ms to everywhere "outside" Europe. Basic math and a bit of Science can show your lunacy. The distance between the US and Europe is about 7904 km, and the Speed of light is about 299,792 km/s. That means that to go from Europe to the US it takes 0.026 Seconds or 26 Milliseconds. So only if you had a continuous fiber connection between you and the US with No Buffers, No Routers, No Hops, No Anything, would you get anywhere near 27ms. In a worst case senerio the earth has a circumferences of around 40,000 km which means that the farthest point on the earth would take 66ms to send a packet to, and that still assumes you have a continuous uninterrupted fiber connection between both points. Realistic latencies are between 50ms and 150ms world wide even with fiber. If GaiKai can't work properly in that range then it will NEVER work.

This brought to you by the Speed of Light.
Screwing us overs since Einstein.

 

[Strazdas]

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

So rather than admit the GaiKai tech is for morons who think that they can just run their games in the "cloud" you'd rather say "Look at this tech that less than 1% even have. It can work, see."

GaiKai can't work without changing the entire infrastructure of the network. Heck your fiber dreams probably wont even correct the issue because Latency is an issue because of buffer bloat. When only 1% of users are using your side of the fiber network sure it runs with minimal latency, but put everyone on it an your buffers will be screwing with you again.

As for your latency lies. You're not getting 27ms to everywhere "outside" Europe. Basic math and a bit of Science can show your lunacy. The distance between the US and Europe is about 7904 km, and the Speed of light is about 299,792 km/s. That means that to go from Europe to the US it takes 0.026 Seconds or 26 Milliseconds. So only if you had a continuous fiber connection between you and the US with No Buffers, No Routers, No Hops, No Anything, would you get anywhere near 27ms. In a worst case senerio the earth has a circumferences of around 40,000 km which means that the farthest point on the earth would take 66ms to send a packet to, and that still assumes you have a continuous uninterrupted fiber connection between both points. Realistic latencies are between 50ms and 150ms world wide even with fiber. If GaiKai can't work properly in that range then it will NEVER work.

This brought to you by the Speed of Light.
Screwing us overs since Einstein.

Less than 1%?
not in English, but states that fiber optics covers over 43% of the country. this was back in 2010. also has a nice table of coverage improvement. going significantly.
http://www.technologijos.lt/n/mtl/S-18805/
a newer (and in english) statistics from 2012 states that europe household penetration while not huge shows clear increase and leaders in the field. It is however true that United Kingdom is another 3rd world country with less than 0.1% coverage.
http://optics.org/news/4/2/35

Also PS4 never said its going to run PS3 games in the cloud. It said it is going to run them in local servers with streaming. you know, how OnLive has been successfully doing for years. (though admitedly publishers dont give them many gmaes becuase how dare they make a system where you can easily loan games and dont have to pay 60 dollars)

Buffer bloats can be fixed by ISPs. now if your ISPs dont do that, then blame them, not GaiKai. As more people uses iber optics, the ISPs invest into handling more traffic.

I can only state the latency i get by stating what speedtests, programs and games show me. i am not god and cant measure whether any of them lie and how much. I have no routers and no buffers and no hops either. I dont know of the servers have and how many stations the ISP puts me though. though i could trace it back but i never bothered. Anything but FPS can be easily played at 100MS and i played it all easily at 77MS back when i had regular network. Now granted mostly connecting to servers only around 1000KM away in germany. 50MS is fine for FPSes.
Besides, you have to remmeber that any half-decent service will have localized servers now. which basically means that your not conencting to a server above 1000KM range ever. Putting the "direct line" latency at 3ms and bellow and leaving another 47ms for the hardware it has to go though.

P.S. if you want to go anal at it. The second link states europe has reached 7.5 million household penetration. average household size in europe is 2.4, meaning it is acessed by 18 million people, putting this at 2.5% population. so your wrong either way.

 

[medv4380]

I have no routers and no buffers and no hops either. I dont know of the servers have and how many stations the ISP puts me though. though i could trace it back but i never bothered. Anything but FPS can be easily played at 100MS and i played it all easily at 77MS back when i had regular network. Now granted mostly connecting to servers only around 1000KM away in germany. 50MS is fine for FPSes.
Besides, you have to remmeber that any half-decent service will have localized servers now. which basically means that your not conencting to a server above 1000KM range ever. Putting the "direct line" latency at 3ms and bellow and leaving another 47ms for the hardware it has to go though.

P.S. if you want to go anal at it. The second link states europe has reached 7.5 million household penetration. average household size in europe is 2.4, meaning it is acessed by 18 million people, putting this at 2.5% population. so your wrong either way.

WoW 2.5% that's so much higher than 1%. Before you decide to nitpick you might want to think about whether or not that little meaningless fact changes the argument at all. Which it doesn't.

You don't have a router, and no hops. Then you have no Modem, no Network Interface, and no Internet connection. You have no buffers. Then not only do you not have a modem, or network interface, then you don't even have a PC, or Console to use the Internet.

To fix buffer bloat the entire system has to be fixed. OSes have buffers, Modems have buffers, and god knows how many other things are in the light causing an issue. Heck even the software in the games they're putting in the cloud have buffers. I'd point you towards www.bufferbloat.net, but clearly, since you think you don't have a buffer, router, or even a hop it will be beyond your working knowledge. When everything's chugging along and all of a sudden one of those packets takes 2 seconds to reach it's destination instead of 50ms that's latency caused by buffer bloat, and fixing it is a bit more complicated.

 

[Strazdas]

I have no routers and no buffers and no hops either. I dont know of the servers have and how many stations the ISP puts me though. though i could trace it back but i never bothered. Anything but FPS can be easily played at 100MS and i played it all easily at 77MS back when i had regular network. Now granted mostly connecting to servers only around 1000KM away in germany. 50MS is fine for FPSes.
Besides, you have to remmeber that any half-decent service will have localized servers now. which basically means that your not conencting to a server above 1000KM range ever. Putting the "direct line" latency at 3ms and bellow and leaving another 47ms for the hardware it has to go though.

P.S. if you want to go anal at it. The second link states europe has reached 7.5 million household penetration. average household size in europe is 2.4, meaning it is acessed by 18 million people, putting this at 2.5% population. so your wrong either way.

WoW 2.5% that's so much higher than 1%. Before you decide to nitpick you might want to think about whether or not that little meaningless fact changes the argument at all. Which it doesn't.

You don't have a router, and no hops. Then you have no Modem, no Network Interface, and no Internet connection. You have no buffers. Then not only do you not have a modem, or network interface, then you don't even have a PC, or Console to use the Internet.

To fix buffer bloat the entire system has to be fixed. OSes have buffers, Modems have buffers, and god knows how many other things are in the light causing an issue. Heck even the software in the games they're putting in the cloud have buffers. I'd point you towards www.bufferbloat.net, but clearly, since you think you don't have a buffer, router, or even a hop it will be beyond your working knowledge. When everything's chugging along and all of a sudden one of those packets takes 2 seconds to reach it's destination instead of 50ms that's latency caused by buffer bloat, and fixing it is a bit more complicated.

Yes, i too was dissapointed by 2,5% statistics, especially dragged down by coutnries like United Kingdom that fails at internet. Im too used to "everyone that wants fiber optics got them" attitude of local ISPs. Im sorry that a 3rd world country has beat the entire world in internet usage and now wants you to catch up.

I have no router or hots. i have no modem. i have a internet card, which you could conisder a buffer i guess, that connects directly to the ISP. i intentionally skipped the modem part to lower the latency of my internet. While OS do have its buffers, unelss your running something like windows 98 or 2000 you wont have problems. Lets face it anyone now is running at least XP and XP can hnadle fiber optics with no problems. Im not sure about what console OS can handle, but if they are asking for fiber optics i guess they can handle it too. The "entire system" is already "fixed". now get those darn cables out there.
Game software is a possible issue, yes, but that really is the game designers fault and noone elses though.

 

[medv4380]

I have no router or hots. i have no modem. i have a internet card, which you could conisder a buffer i guess, that connects directly to the ISP. i intentionally skipped the modem part to lower the latency of my internet. While OS do have its buffers, unelss your running something like windows 98 or 2000 you wont have problems. Lets face it anyone now is running at least XP and XP can hnadle fiber optics with no problems. Im not sure about what console OS can handle, but if they are asking for fiber optics i guess they can handle it too. The "entire system" is already "fixed". now get those darn cables out there.
Game software is a possible issue, yes, but that really is the game designers fault and noone elses though.

There, there.

Rest soundly that your story will live on in the IT world. See I'm not some nobody gamer messaging you from home. I'm some nobody programmer responding from work between tasks. We have a fairly nice fiber line here, and I'm well aware how it works. Heck, I've been working in network related fields since 2002. I'm well aware how your fiber works, and the fact that you have made the claims you have is hysterical. This is a story that I will probably end up sharing with my children when they're old enough to understand the joke, and get a good laugh at your expense.

 

[Strazdas]

I have no router or hots. i have no modem. i have a internet card, which you could conisder a buffer i guess, that connects directly to the ISP. i intentionally skipped the modem part to lower the latency of my internet. While OS do have its buffers, unelss your running something like windows 98 or 2000 you wont have problems. Lets face it anyone now is running at least XP and XP can hnadle fiber optics with no problems. Im not sure about what console OS can handle, but if they are asking for fiber optics i guess they can handle it too. The "entire system" is already "fixed". now get those darn cables out there.
Game software is a possible issue, yes, but that really is the game designers fault and noone elses though.

There, there.

Rest soundly that your story will live on in the IT world. See I'm not some nobody gamer messaging you from home. I'm some nobody programmer responding from work between tasks. We have a fairly nice fiber line here, and I'm well aware how it works. Heck, I've been working in network related fields since 2002. I'm well aware how your fiber works, and the fact that you have made the claims you have is hysterical. This is a story that I will probably end up sharing with my children when they're old enough to understand the joke, and get a good laugh at your expense.

Glad to be of service. now we should both get back to our jobs unless you got some constructive criticism to share?