Aliens Didn't Ruin a Franchise, It Established One

[Jimothy Sterling]

Aliens Didn't Ruin a Franchise, It Established One

The Escapist's very own Schuyler J. Dievendorf suggested that Aliens served to ruin a potential horror franchise, I feel compelled to offer a rebuttal.

Read Full Article

 

[Fappy]

I agree wholeheartedly. Sorry Schuyler, but there was no franchise to ruin when Aliens came along. I made the same point Jim did in the comments of your article, but not with as much eloquence as displayed here XD

A lot of people were thinking how you'd respond to this and I don't think they'll be disappointed, Jim.

 

[Legion]

Fight, fight fight!

While I can see the point that Schuyler J. Dievendorf was trying to make, I don't really agree with it either. I felt Aliens was a very good film for most of the reasons that you gave. The Marines being gung-ho purely highlighted how little that mattered when faced with an alien race that are basically living weapons. It wasn't like most action movies where being a "badass" magically means you can take on anything.

I'd argue that the rather large amount of Alien products outside of original movies have done the most damage. the AvP movies as well as a whole bunch of awful games have made the series rather hard to get into in recent years, as people now expect anything related to it to be just as bad.

Alien: Isolation is the kind of game that sounds fantastic on paper, but thanks to the franchise being butchered so much in recent years, people cannot help but feel cynical about it.

 

[Hoplon]

I think this nails why I'm fine with Aliens as a sequel, since it didn't just try to ape the first film which always just leads to shitty sequels and why Alien Resurrection is shit for trying to ape Aliens.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I disagree about the marines. The Aliens got really lucky, and the marines had to be incompetent. If the aliens weren't under the reactor so all the marines had their guns, things would be different. If the lieutenant was competent, and the other ranks were professional, things would be different.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

I disagree about the marines. The Aliens got really lucky, and the marines had to be incompetent. If the aliens weren't under the reactor so all the marines had their guns, things would be different. If the lieutenant was competent, and the other ranks were professional, things would be different.

Part of what I said was that the marines sucked. They lost their confidence when they didn't have their technology backing them up. So yeah, they were clearly incompetent - and their culture of overconfidence would suggest that's a fundamental flaw for the whole force.

As for whether or not the aliens got lucky, I'd argue they're clearly smart enough to understand how certain things work. The queen can operate machinery after seeing somebody use it once. While it seems to be that aliens get "dumber" the more there are (perhaps their personal instincts taking a backseat to a sweeping and simplified hive mind), it's obvious the one calling the shots for them isn't stupid, and certainly seemed to see the marines coming.

Now, their trap might not have been as good if the marines could shoot, but they had surprise and numbers, and later on, when firepower wasn't an issue, they still had their asses handed to them. Hell, the xenomorphs knew how to effectively cut off their escape by getting aboard the carrier as it was about to lift them off-planet. I think they deserve a bit more credit.

Jesus, I am a fucking nerd.

 

[Rakschas]

good point jim.

though i think what people mean is that they want a spiritual successor. if aliens was meant to be that, it failed its task. its still a bloody good movie i think.

 

[Fappy]

Fight, fight fight!

While I can see the point that Schuyler J. Dievendorf was trying to make, I don't really agree with it either. I felt Aliens was a very good film for most of the reasons that you gave. The Marines being gung-ho purely highlighted how little that mattered when faced with an alien race that are basically living weapons. It wasn't like most action movies where being a "badass" magically means you can take on anything.

I'd argue that the rather large amount of Alien products outside of original movies have done the most damage. the AvP movies as well as a whole bunch of awful games have made the series rather hard to get into in recent years, as people now expect anything related to it to be just as bad.

Alien: Isolation is the kind of game that sounds fantastic on paper, but thanks to the franchise being butchered so much in recent years, people cannot help but feel cynical about it.

I still don't understand why the franchise has been milked so much more than many other, similarly successful properties from the 80's. You don't see one or two video games from the Terminator franchise every year, right? Just seems weird to me. Are people really asking for this much Alien-themed shovelware?

 

[Steve2911]

It makes me wonder what would have happened if it weren't for Aliens. Would it be a long and repetitive slasher franchise like Elm Street or Friday the 13th (but in space)? Would we be on the second gritty reboot already? Would we have gotten some shit Freddy vs Jason style crossover with another sci fi creature... Oh wait.

EDIT:
Actually;

Alien is a truly incredible horror movie. Aliens is a truly incredible action movie. I think neither movie exists at the expense of the other, and I do in fact believe that they owe each other a great debt. That both movies are so wildly different ensures that the pair of them stand alone as classics. You just don't see that in other franchises, two movies that are so capable of standing on their own as masterpieces of their respective genres.

I'd say that the one other franchise to really pull that off is Terminator itself. The original film is a noir slasher film (less remembered than its sequel, but stands up as a classic regardless) and the sequel is a mind blowingly wonderful balls to the wall action flick. It's odd how closely parallel the situations are.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Part of what I said was that the marines sucked. They lost their confidence when they didn't have their technology backing them up. So yeah, they were clearly incompetent - and their culture of overconfidence would suggest that's a fundamental flaw for the whole force.

Ah, ok. I would say that swaggering masculinity doesn't have to fall apart when things go wrong, though, they could have had something to back up their boasting with.

(Which, to me, sorta undermines the threat of the aliens...they are scary, compared to people who've decided to be very sloppy)

As for whether or not the aliens got lucky, I'd argue they're clearly smart enough to understand how certain things work. The queen can operate machinery after seeing somebody use it once. While it seems to be that aliens get "dumber" the more there are (perhaps their personal instincts taking a backseat to a sweeping and simplified hive mind), it's obvious the one calling the shots for them isn't stupid, and certainly seemed to see the marines coming.

Now, their trap might not have been as good if the marines could shoot, but they had surprise and numbers, and later on, when firepower wasn't an issue, they still had their asses handed to them. Hell, the xenomorphs knew how to effectively cut off their escape by getting aboard the carrier as it was about to lift them off-planet. I think they deserve a bit more credit.

Jesus, I am a fucking nerd.

They didn't know that the marine's pulse rifles would rupture the coolant of the reactor, or that marines with pulse rifles were coming when they put all the colonists in there. Rupturing the reactor led to them all getting blown up as well. So I count that as luck.

Getting on board the carrier is more incompetence, I'd say. The rest of the marines are fighting the aliens, so they land the ship nearby, and the co-pilot lowers the hatch and wanders off, letting an alien in.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Yes! Yes Jim! For the love of God yes!

I have one more issue with the original article that I don't think was touched on here (not that I want this to turn into a witch hunt or anything), but I took serious issue with the implication that Aliens is just non-stop balls the the wall action with no down time left to spare for character development and tension. I watched Aliens a few days ago, and while I wasn't timing it, I swear it must be about an hour into the movie's run-time before the Xenomorphs actually show up! I guess that hour was just vacuum then, what with all the tension building and character development not existing.

In fact, even after the first battle, the films whole second act is focussed on the few surviving characters trying to stay alive in a claustrophobic space with limited resources, while simultaneously discovering that the hordes of Xenomorphs massing somewhere off-screen to kill them all aren't the only enemy they have to deal with. But no, my mistake, it's all just one-dimensional mehreens jacking off apparently.

Speaking of one-dimensional marines, I won't try and say that Vasquez and the gang are the most complicated characters in the world, but at least they exhibit enough recognisable personality to be memorable, which is more than I can say for the crew of the Nostromo.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Fight, fight fight!

Kiss, kiss, kiss.

OT; The "Space" Marines in the Aliens movie struck me as singularly ineffective in their one job. I can't help but wonder if this was intentional or done purely to move the story forward. Were the Marines the worst of the worst because Evil Corporation wanted to preserve the Aliens for use as a weapon? If the training standards were really that low, it would explain why in the movies and games, they are the weakest faction.

We got some truly kick ass computer games out of it, so while it did establish a franchise, but not the one I think they were hoping for.

 

[PrimePowerOn]

How could we ever damn a movie that gave us "Game over, man. Game over!" (A scene which, now that I mention it, stands as a great example of the Marines quasi-shutting down when things start to go wrong.) I agree with Jim wholeheartedly.

I still don't understand why the franchise has been milked so much more than many other, similarly successful properties from the 80's. You don't see one or two video games from the Terminator franchise every year, right? Just seems weird to me. Are people really asking for this much Alien-themed shovelware?

I'm guessing that this is a function of the fact that they made two pretty uniquely, recognizable, and good movies in one universe. Alien catering to survival horror folk / Aliens catering to action shooter folk. Also, there's a few extra movies that reference Xenomorph lore that have happened recently: The Aliens Vs. Predator series, and the big hit (at least among my friends) prequel Prometheus. So, there's a lot of material that lends itself to active markets and Xenomorphs themselves are (maybe) at the top of everyone's minds a bit more.

I'm guessing less substantive ideas have been pitched in corporate boardrooms.

 

[Bad Jim]

Part of what I said was that the marines sucked. They lost their confidence when they didn't have their technology backing them up. So yeah, they were clearly incompetent - and their culture of overconfidence would suggest that's a fundamental flaw for the whole force.

I think it's just the endemic problem of horror movies that protagonists have a horrible lack of common sense. Ripley is just is bad.

When they first get near the xenomorphs they are nested in the coolant system for the nuclear reactor, and Ripley points out that firing armour piercing bullets in there would rupture the pipes and cause an explosion. Fair enough, a meltdown would be more realistic but an explosion is more Hollywood. But she forgot about the acid blood, which would also rupture the coolant pipes. Since they couldn't spill xenomorph blood there, they shouldn't have gone in.

Also, when they knew they had to wait days for evacuation, it was Ripley's idea to hole up somewhere and seal the doors. That was the same plan the colonists had and it failed. Were there really no other plans to consider? Camping outside on a hill where the xenomorphs couldn't sneak up on them? Destroying a bunch of interior walls so the xenomorphs couldn't sneak up on them? Planting explosives on the coolant pipes and detonating them from 20 miles away? Finding some way to shut down the reactor and then blowing up the nest?

Though the biggest idiot is Burke, who shuts Ripley in a room with a facehugger because of his evil plan to make a ton of money, forgetting that she was greatly improving his chances of getting out alive.

 

[Catface Meowmers]

I have one more issue with the original article that I don't think was touched on here (not that I want this to turn into a witch hunt or anything), but I took serious issue with the implication that Aliens is just non-stop balls the the wall action with no down time left to spare for character development and tension. I watched Aliens a few days ago, and while I wasn't timing it, I swear it must be about an hour into the movie's run-time before the Xenomorphs actually show up! I guess that hour was just vacuum then, what with all the tension building and character development not existing.

And even during the gun battles, the actual action is pretty simple. In the first ambush, the marines don't really seem to cover a lot of ground once the dying starts. The Last Stand of Hudson battle is just them moving from small room to small room to smaller ventilation system. Even the final showdown between Ripley and the Queenomorph involves a slow moving power loader and some emphatic button pressing. No kung fu to be found.

The overall tone of the action, and indeed the movie, is very claustrophobic and hopeless. Each firefight is a pitched retreat. There's never a time when the marines are trying to attack and defeat the aliens. They just want to escape with their lives.

In terms of Cameron movies, I'd say it's closer to The Abyss than Terminator 2. The tough marines and machine guns make it seem like more of an "action" movie than it really is, when more of the tension and engagement actually comes from the tone and setting.

 

[sXeth]

I still don't understand why the franchise has been milked so much more than many other, similarly successful properties from the 80's. You don't see one or two video games from the Terminator franchise every year, right? Just seems weird to me. Are people really asking for this much Alien-themed shovelware?

I think its more that a Terminator game would either set in future mech-world times, which only one movie has more then tangentially touched upon, and that's largely reviled. Alternatively, it'd be in the present/past, being basically a guy running around shooting other guys, with one slightly stronger guy by virture of being a Terminator. Which is just a generic FPS with very little unique visuals or gameplay spins to make its own.

 

[Fappy]

I still don't understand why the franchise has been milked so much more than many other, similarly successful properties from the 80's. You don't see one or two video games from the Terminator franchise every year, right? Just seems weird to me. Are people really asking for this much Alien-themed shovelware?

I think its more that a Terminator game would either set in future mech-world times, which only one movie has more then tangentially touched upon, and that's largely reviled. Alternatively, it'd be in the present/past, being basically a guy running around shooting other guys, with one slightly stronger guy by virture of being a Terminator. Which is just a generic FPS with very little unique visuals or gameplay spins to make its own.

I could see Telltale doing a story-driven, modern setting Terminator game. In fact, that'd probably be pretty fucking cool!

 

[Right Hook]

I disagree about the marines. The Aliens got really lucky, and the marines had to be incompetent. If the aliens weren't under the reactor so all the marines had their guns, things would be different. If the lieutenant was competent, and the other ranks were professional, things would be different.

Part of what I said was that the marines sucked. They lost their confidence when they didn't have their technology backing them up. So yeah, they were clearly incompetent - and their culture of overconfidence would suggest that's a fundamental flaw for the whole force.

As for whether or not the aliens got lucky, I'd argue they're clearly smart enough to understand how certain things work. The queen can operate machinery after seeing somebody use it once. While it seems to be that aliens get "dumber" the more there are (perhaps their personal instincts taking a backseat to a sweeping and simplified hive mind), it's obvious the one calling the shots for them isn't stupid, and certainly seemed to see the marines coming.

Now, their trap might not have been as good if the marines could shoot, but they had surprise and numbers, and later on, when firepower wasn't an issue, they still had their asses handed to them. Hell, the xenomorphs knew how to effectively cut off their escape by getting aboard the carrier as it was about to lift them off-planet. I think they deserve a bit more credit.

Jesus, I am a fucking nerd.

I don't really feel like the Aliens got lucky at all, they used the camouflage of the secreted resin and waited for the marines to walk into a trap. This isn't luck, it is strategy. I personally don't think the Aliens get stupider when in groups either, they simply know they posses less importance by value of sheer number.

In Resurrection, the Xenomorphs willing tear apart one of the group to allow their escape, a valuable sacrifice. Sure the marines could have done a bit better but the Aliens had plenty of power left to attack with while at the reactor, it was a losing battle for marines, no matter what...not every marine can be Hicks after all.

Now I feel like a nerd too.

 

[Revolutionary]

Fight! Fight! Fight!....aaaaaand Kiss.
Your move Schuyler.

 

[el_kabong]

Agree completely. One of the things I love about the franchise is that each of the 4 movies has its own distinct feel (I put AVP stuff into another bin...the dust bin...also known as the garbage...get it? because they're terrible). Each of the four directors added their own personal takes on the xenomorph mythos and I believe that the series, as a whole, is better for it. We all know how well horror franchises hold up to repeated sequels that try to simply ape the original.