268: Real-Life Sidekick

BobisOnlyBob

is Only Bob
Nov 29, 2007
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Co-star is interesting, although playing through SMG2 with my girlfriend just left me kinda cold to it; when she successfully halted enemies and grabbed items, the difficulty was reduced to the point that I no longer found the game challenging. It reduced my interest in the play experience, because enemies froze before I got to them, items in out-of-the-way spots were snapped up...

...on the other hand, it meant there was an unpredictable star cursor whooshing round the screen when I'm trying to do precision platforming (especially in the lategame), starbits unexpectedly fly across the screen (often until I have none left, preventing me from stockpiling them to feed hungry lumas), and worst of all freezing enemies mid-jump, so I landed on them face-first and taking damage. Sigh.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/7781-Critical-Miss-14

My experiences are less idyllic than those portrayed in the article, although not quite as extreme as the Critical Miss above. I suppose it works for some gamer pairs, and not for others.

My other criticism is that playing as the Luma does nothing to prepare you for the primary play; it actually takes control over an entirely secondary attack, that's non-essential to completion. A better co-op partner would be something like Tails from Sonic 2; able to perform identical moves to the main character, in the same gamespace, while having infinite lives. Tails' inability to directly interfere with Sonic's movement (a blessing of 2D that looks bizarre in 3D) also helped, even if he could trigger switches and platforms and otherwise indirectly cause problems. That's what I expected Luma to be originally; a floaty star who could move around the gamespace grabbing items and enemies, but floated back up from falls, automatically rejoining Mario when left behind.
 

Sasquatchkid

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Jul 5, 2010
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This is Ryan Smith, the author of this story.

Wanted to say first off that I'm enjoying a lot of the comments here and I appreciate a lot of the kind words about the story. I also appreciate the fact that The Escapist's readership is so well informed.

Some extra points: I think a couple people made a fair point that their is a similar co-op system in Sonic The Hedgehog 2, but let's face it - it's nearly a 20 year old game and there haven't been many attempts since then to recreate that kind of experience.

Amanda and I have played New Super Mario Bros. Wii - and it worked well for a little while but as another commenter pointed out, the difficulty scales pretty high after this first few worlds and she got extremely frustrated with it after awhile. The fact that you can steal power ups from each other (often accidentally) and get in each others way also can lead to some unpleasant tension.

As far as the Lego games go, the only one we've played together is Harry Potter Lego, and while they're pretty noob friendly, still aren't easy for casual gamers to control and negotiate well in. Plus, at least in the first part of Harry Potter, there's a real dearth of action.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback.
 

vxicepickxv

Slayer of Bothan Spies
Sep 28, 2008
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Why must everyone play the same game the same way, at either the same, or different times?
I absolutely love the idea of asymmetrical co-op. There are other types of co-op like this if you stretch it out enough to include MMOs. The different classes are not symmetrical, yet still must co-operate to complete a common objective.

Or I could be wrong, let me know if I'm wrong.
 

obliviondoll

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May 27, 2010
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This, oddly enough, reminds me of my experience with Kingdom Hearts and KH2.

This may take a little explaining. I tried PLAYING both games, but found them too simplistic for my liking. I enjoy watching them though, and my flatmate adores them with a passion.

Then one day, while watching her in a Gummi Ship section of KH1, I noticed she only ever used unlocked blueprints, and never bothered to make her own ships "It's too complicated - I can't be bothered with it"

So I became her mechanic, designing and building Gummi Ships for her to fly. It gave me more enjoyment in the game, and I share a measure of her success when a new high score is achieved.

In KH2, I've designed more ships than I did for KH1, mainly because my KH1 ship design just got upgrades when more advanced parts became available, whereas KH2 inspired more diversity in the design process.

Kind of the reverse situation, really. I'm more the hardcore gamer, and she's the casual player, but I'm her sidekick for a game we can both enjoy.
 

Sabrestar

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Apr 13, 2010
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This is highly reminiscent of my own experience - except in reverse.

I may be supposed to be the "hardcore" gamer, but in reality, nowadays, that's my wife's job. She's the Galaxy expert. When she passed the controller to me so I could take a stab at it, the game gave me vertigo within two minutes. It was weeks before she'd even let me play co-op, because I'd wail and my stomach would lurch every time Mario would seemingly jump into oblivion in order to land on another planet. But with co-op, I can still be involved while she tears into everything in sight (though sadly I can't help her get that one last star on that evil Luigi Purple Coin level).

Oddly, (to take this in a different direction) despite growing up with an NES controller in my lap, I guess I'm the casual gamer now. World of Warcraft aside, I don't play much, while my wife plays the Wii to death. I hardly touch the Wii, not because I don't like the games but partially because I can't find a remote-and-nunchuck configuration comfortable to my stubborn left-handed self. (And I have interest in buying a supposed "hardcore" console.) If it's not WoW or the Virtual Console, it seems like it's just gotten too complicated for me to feel like putting the effort into learning. I like my old 2D platformers, and so does she - but I guess she's grown with the times more, and I'm the old fart. (And I'm even younger than her too - I guess I just get old fast.)

And we tried NSMBW, and we both hated it. Sure, a multiplayer 2D platformer sounded like gold, but after repeatedly having issues grabbing powerups, keeping up with each other (we both had trouble with that), and endless frustration, we gave up. Haven't touched it for months, and neither of us really care to. What sounded like a great idea when we were ten and playing SMB on the NES turns out to not be such a great idea overall. (And I won't even get into the disgusting laziness of Nintendo just dumping two generic Toads when they could have had interesting characters instead.)
 

DarklordKyo

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Nov 22, 2009
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I know this has little to do with co-op, but some people can point out unfortunate implications tied to that boss (i.e., you beat it by smashing it in the dome-shaped crotch)
 

BizRodian

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Nov 10, 2007
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It's funny how I have never really thought much about asymmetric co-op before now... but it's a great idea. If many AAA titles had an option to do some sort of more simple co-op play, it would be a great way to expand social gaming! I can't think of how many times I have had someone watch me play a game but was too discouraged to play, knowing how difficult it would be. Lots of people who play video games have lots of friends and relatives who don't.

This kind of thing has existed (in some form) in sim games where players might choose a gunner turret in a flight sim and exclusively play that role.

Hell, even back when we were little kids, my little sister would sometimes get tired of trying to beat Super Mario World with me in two player mode. So she'd go back to play some easier levels and then transfer to me the extra lives she'd get. It was more fun for her to help me beat the newer, harder, levels than it was for her to repeatedly die in them. She still got to see the level get passed, and this allowed me to avoid having to do the boring distracting task of refilling my lives.

A lot of single player games have secondary helper NPCs, usually by some kind of radio link back to headquarters. They're mostly used to help explain the plot, but often performing vital tasks for you, too (like say, finding blueprints or opening a door). If you could make that secondary character (optionally) playable, and combine that with more simple (or "casual") gameplay elements, I bet you'd get a lot of people who enjoy playing that position.
 

JonnyDucker

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Jul 9, 2008
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Plinglebob said:
Would gamers really enjoy playing the role of the ineffectual Otacon, ferreting out information by hacking computer networks and uploading it to Snake's codec?
I'm sorry, but that would be an awesome game! If they released it as 2 seperate games with their own single player (one a 3rd person shooter, one a hacker sim) and they can then link up to play a hard version where one person sneaks around and the other hacks for information, turns off cameras etc.
I've not played it myself, but there was a game that did something like that called Lifeline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeline_%28video_game%29). It was a 3rd person survival game where the main character you would normally be controlling responded to your voice commands instead, while you played the role of someone trapped in the control room, able to view the world through security cameras, reading and hacking files and so on. A proper two player version, where the character you were instructing was played by a real person instead of an AI could be interesting.

Reading this article, I first ought of Sonic 2 as perhaps the only other game with this kind of asymmetric co-op suitable for playing with someone who's a more casual gamer. I think the key difference is being able to help the main player without the risk of being a hindrance. Playing as Tails was just as complicated as playing as Sonic (or more so, because you could get left behind) but no matter how bad you might be, you wouldn't drag down the main player if you kept dying. This avoids putting pressure on the 2nd player that could cause tension between the players. I know my wife would play more co-op games with me if there were more that she wouldn't feel like she was a millstone around my neck instead of being a helpful contribution, no matter how small.

As a final note, apart from the games with actual co-op like the Lego games and the Mario games, another way my wife likes to get involved is being my spotter. Looking for secrets in Uncharted, or spotting Life Seeds I missed in Prince of Persia 2008 for example. She probably gets a lot more out of the visuals than I do, not being focused on what I'm doing and able to enjoy the scenery. And to spin things round, when she's playing Final Fantasy, while she takes care of the grinding and the battles, I'll be looking up guides on the laptop so she can find all the secrets without having the story spoiled.
 

aldowyn

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Mar 1, 2010
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Both Super Mario Galaxies give people a way of feeling involved, even though they aren't really important. For example, I was playing the first one with my little sister, and when she went off to go something, and I continued, she was upset that I continued without her, almost as if she believed it was her game, as well.

Of course, she also said it was because she missed some of the story. She apparently doesn't believe me when I say that SMG, especially the middle part where you're just collecting stars, has like no story. Or at least she doesn't care.

Anyway, this is a very interesting tactic for the more hardcore games. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement this in something else. I can imagine a game that has the normal single-player, a classic co-op mode, and a "tag-a-long" mode where someone less familiar with the system or less willing to invest time and effort into the game can play along with you. It would be EXTREMELY interesting if someone managed to implement a useful buddy system into a multiplayer mode!

Basically, SMG shows some signs of some truly creative, industry-changing stuff, and I can't wait to see if the idea takes hold!
 

Shelby Hays

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Aug 28, 2010
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Plinglebob said:
Would gamers really enjoy playing the role of the ineffectual Otacon, ferreting out information by hacking computer networks and uploading it to Snake's codec?
I'm sorry, but that would be an awesome game! If they released it as 2 seperate games with their own single player (one a 3rd person shooter, one a hacker sim) and they can then link up to play a hard version where one person sneaks around and the other hacks for information, turns off cameras etc.
Totally agree! I could see it being implemented somehow like making 'hard' mode a bit easier since you've got an IRL Otacon hacking your way through.

Anyways, Being the sidekick really is nice sometimes when you're not super into the game but still want to play with the enthusiastic friend. For example, when I was younger, my dad and I would play Tomb Raider 2 for ps1 together. He would do all the gameplay and killing and stupid jump/timed doors/etc cooordination, while i would sit beside him and keep an eye out for medi packs and pickups and collectables. It's a bit difficult to do all this on your own when your main concern is making sure to not be eaten alive by dobermans or shot by thugs or eaten by an ancient dragon you accidentally woke up ^^;. Hey, it had a superrare dagger stuck in it's chest, I understand why Lara had to go for it! :p And while first player ran around in boss fights, there I was looking for that lever or that weakpoint or essential pickup. I may have had a very limited aspect in the experience, but Dad was incredibly greatful for my second set of eyes on the environment. I'd love to see Tomb Raider with a sidekick aspect ^_^.
 

latenightapplepie

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Nov 9, 2008
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Perhaps more games should be made with this kind of co-operative play; where Player 2 is a passive supporter, able to safely and easily aid Player 1 without too much responsibility or skill level required. With the growing likelihood of combinations of less-experienced gamers and those that have been playing most of their lives as more and more new people start playing games, I welcome this idea. All those critics who panned this idea clearly weren't using their brains very hard if they couldn't see the potential of this kind of co-operative play.

Great article, Mr Smith.

EDIT: I totally just remembered how my brothers and I did this with Diablo 2!

Okay, not quite this, but close. Grinding for experience points and gear, especially come Nightmare or Hell modes, can get quite dull, and sometimes whoever was levelling their character at that particular point in time would get another one of us to man the number hot-keys 1-4 for potions so that the main player could focus on killing demons, opening chests, and not have to worry about keeping an eye on their health and mana bars. It was a really great combination, if I remember correctly. I mean, perhaps occasionally, the person on 'potion duty' would lose concentration for a moment, but most of the time it was a successful and enjoyable experience having the additional person.

Furthermore, as Diablo 2 players will know, there can often be agonisingly difficult choices between two really similar pieces of gear that the second, supporting player can help with; do I use the breastplate with a slightly lower armour value and +5 to poison resistance, or the chainmail with a bonus to strength and hit points, and a 13% chance to cast a Frost Nova on being struck?

More often than not, I'm sure the second player didn't make much difference in the final decision in some of these matters because we all played different classes and didn't know each other's character builds nearly as well as our own obviously. But sometimes it felt better having a second voice confirming your decision that that Cobalt Ring of Fire Bolt really wasn't as good as your current Gold Ring of the Sun, or some such.

Just goes to show that even if their isn't any direct co-operative mode included, people sometimes want to get involved in someone else's game, even if it means playing in a minor, secondary, less-important role. In fact, sometimes that's exactly what people want.

[sub][sub]Epic Edit for 3000! Go me![/sub][/sub]
 

grenideer

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Dec 12, 2007
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I'm glad several readers have pointed out that this type of co-op has been done before. Sonic and Tails immediately came to mind while reading the article but the 2nd player as a 'gunner' is probably the most common form.

Still, it is true that there are few games that do this. It is especially surprising because this is the easiest form of co-op to create from a development perspective. Cooperative games have a lot of additional concerns- how does AI handle multiple enemies, how do player's handle separate cameras, splitscreen, etc. Tacking on a 'Player 1 Helper' who can't control the camera solves a lot of problems. So it is interesting that we don't see it more.

I think there is the stigma that this feels like it is 'half-assed' co-op. This must stem from the fact that it is a lot easier to develop, but also because a hardcore player probably would feel cheated in the role of 'sidekick'.

Co-op can remain symmetric and still be accessible. Pixeljunk Shooter is a good example where it doesn't really matter how much someone dies. My girlfriend had lots of fun rescuing the humans and I would mostly deal with the more difficult combat. I would argue that games like this can be better because each player can choose the level of interaction they want to tackle. But it is a fair point that even these mechanics may be too difficult for some.

I can see how specific groups of people can really enjoy SMG2 co-op but I think we can all admit that it is a confining game experience that a lot of people would not enjoy. In the end though, having a variety of game styles out there isn't a bad thing.
 

rddj623

"Breathe Deep, Seek Peace"
Sep 28, 2009
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Sounds like an interesting mechanic devoted to the casual gamer. I know my girlfriend loves the competitive nature of gaming, whether it's co-op or straight up vs gameplay. I'd be interested to see if she'd like something like playing Luma.
 

thirion1850

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Aug 13, 2008
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Plinglebob said:
Would gamers really enjoy playing the role of the ineffectual Otacon, ferreting out information by hacking computer networks and uploading it to Snake's codec?
I'm sorry, but that would be an awesome game! If they released it as 2 seperate games with their own single player (one a 3rd person shooter, one a hacker sim) and they can then link up to play a hard version where one person sneaks around and the other hacks for information, turns off cameras etc.
Hell yeah, that sounds awesome! Cracking and snatching info, unlocking or making life easier for your counterpart down bellow as he's making his way through a stealth mission actually sounds pretty cool for a co-op title.