She's a good protagonist in a movie that completely sidelines the main characters. And since she isn't the one doing ninjutsu, there's this huge disconnect/tone shift whenever her part's on screen and when the Turtles are on screen. 'She' cares more about where the Turtles came from than the Turtles themselves (not one of them display curiosity past Splinter's word.)But the turtles end up crowded out of their own picture, sidelined by April O?Neil, who takes center stage. It?s weird; I like the idea of the female character getting more to do, but the movie?s title is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Coming into the story through her POV makes a bit of sense (the movie, for some reason, plays the turtles as a reveal) but staying there? All the way through the last scene of the film?
Would you mind quoting the line or lines you're getting that from? Because I'm not seeing that. I see several bits where the author complains about how the movie seems more interested in inviting the audience to leer and thereby make issue of her sexuality than it ought to be, but that's it.Pyrian said:You're basically saying that being pretty makes you weak.
Sure. Let's start with the fact that, other than being pretty, she's a "strong female character":JimB said:Would you mind quoting the line or lines you're getting that from?Pyrian said:You're basically saying that being pretty makes you weak.
I would also cite the entire preceding paragraph, but I will not copy it here. He makes it very clear that in terms of her actions and role within the movie, she's a Strong Female Character. ...Except not:Yes, you heard right. Megan Fox in a Michael Bay production is a Strong Female Character.
So, she's not a "Strong Female Character" (i.e. she's weak) and it's entirely because she's pretty and people notice. Which means he wrote that being noticeably pretty automatically and in itself precludes you from being strong (I'm assuming it doesn't exclude you from being female or a character).For all its admirable work in this regard, the flick can't help but remind us that, yes, Megan Fox is a girl and, oh, boy, have a look at her.
Well, that depends on what the article's author meant by "Strong Female Character" (he does not elaborate except in the already cited text), but I think it's a major problem no matter how you take that phrase.JimB said:I also am not sure how you mean "weak."
I think you might be making the mistake of treating the movie like reality. No one is really noticing April O'Neil is pretty. The problem is that in this entirely artificial and fictional situation, fictional characters are being forced by writers to notice how pretty she is, and the audience is being forced to notice it with lingering camera shots of her ass and whatever else he mentioned (I did not see the movie and do not intend to, so I am only providing my understanding of the author's complaints, not speaking for their veracity). In the real world, yes, a woman's sexual appeal has nothing to do with the kind of person she is, but in fiction, her characterization is damaged whenever we are invited to view her not as a subject but as an object seen through the lens of another's desires. It certainly doesn't help that the desire in question is a desire to pee in her butthole.Pyrian said:So, why is it almost, instead of, say, mostly, or something else in addition? Well, the next two paragraphs explain, and it's entirely because she's pretty and people notice:
I feel like a lot of problems in these recurring discussions could be solved with a comma. "Strong, female character" means something rather different than "strong female character." I don't think the author's intent is to focus on April's strength, particularly since he never defines what either strength or weakness are. I think it's to focus on the strength of her characterization.Pyrian said:So, she's not a "Strong Female Character" (i.e. she's weak) and it's entirely because she's pretty and people notice.
This is actually a really great point. Note, however, that you need a correct use of a hyphen, not a comma. See hyphenated, compound, or phrasal adjectives See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_modifierJimB said:I feel like a lot of problems in these recurring discussions could be solved with a comma. "Strong, female character" means something rather different than "strong female character." I don't think the author's intent is to focus on April's strength, particularly since he never defines what either strength or weakness are. I think it's to focus on the strength of her characterization.
I think a comma would clarify that "strong" is not being used as an adverb to modify "female," but is rather one of two adjectives modifying "character." I'm glad you like the underlying sentiment whether or not you agree with my approach to it, though.ReverendBob said:A strong female character is correct for our conversation.
I agree in that it just needs to plain stop for the sake of both genders.Daaaah Whoosh said:So...
Not to be that guy, but...
Isn't it worse that the male characters are the ones objectifying the female character? I mean, we want to have strong female characters that are more than a pretty ass, but don't we also want strong male characters that are more than just horny idiots too?
I think it's more that the scene is shot as if we're supposed to ogle her ass (I haven't seen the movie, but that's how the author described it), which degrades the female character and not the male characters around her. If if was shot from the front (we see that Vernon has a clear view of her ass, and we can see his facial expression) or didn't linger (just to briefly show what Vernon was seeing, without actually filming from his POV) it wouldn't be much of a problem. Sounds more like the director shot the scene as he did for the sake of getting some tasty ass on screen rather than framing the characters.Daaaah Whoosh said:So...
Not to be that guy, but...
Isn't it worse that the male characters are the ones objectifying the female character? I mean, we want to have strong female characters that are more than a pretty ass, but don't we also want strong male characters that are more than just horny idiots too?
So? That's basically all April O'Neal has been in most of the TMNT media she's been in, a damsel in distress that everybody else in the cast has to go out of their way to save all the time, and in the few where she isn't she doesn't start out that way and has to grow into being competent. Also, eyecandy? That's another given.heWizard said:Fox's involvement seemed to indicate that the beloved no-bullshit, go-getter reporter would be reduced to a piece of eye candy; a damsel in distress waiting to happen.
Scarlet Johansson's Black Widow does a good job of coming off as being a good strong female character in spite of also being eyecandy at the same time is the difference, in fact BW being eyecandy is barely focused on at all. By contrast Megan Fox has never been anything but total eye candy in everything she's ever been in, they don't even TRY to make her look like she's there to be anything else.8bitOwl said:It's like with Scarlet Johansson: they try to sell us the Black Widow as strong and independent, but the REAL reason she's there is to look really pretty.