How Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Just Blew Up the Marvel Universe
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Wow, putting it all in that context makes this sound a lot worse than I realized. I'm not a fan of the bridge burning tactic Marvel's doing with the other franchises and I realize this kind of thing happened repeatedly for many longtime comic readers, but I think, personally, this is the first time a major thing I've been following has flipped the table and declared everything I knew to be a lie, not for the sake of creativity or keeping things more concise, but for brand management and the bottom line.
vid87 said:
It's not Marvel it's Disney that are ordering the changes which means that Mutants may themselves be actually Inhumans without a complete transformation.
The reason that Marvel are redoing so many big storylines is so that the characters can become more like the live action film versions.
Remember Disney does not care about the comics they want the films/TV/merchandise.
This is what Disney does they did it with the Star Wars extended universe and now are doing it with the Marvel universe.
I just hope they don't ruin both studios like they did with Pixar. Remember that the only reason Disney original movies got better is that John Lasseter of Pixar switched from overseeing Pixar films to the Disney studio.
Probably not in the grand scheme of things but thematically and on a personal level I would say so. Being a member of the Avengers and opposing your own father based on philosophy and morality makes for good drama and I'm sure there were times where they both questioned if they share destructive traits of his (I've heard QS described as arrogant which falls a bit in line with Magneto's personality).Jonathan Hornsby said:
I will say though that the inverted moral compass gimmick, even if it's to shake up the teams and create a new scenario, is just plain stupid.
You'd have to go back to the original revelation that Magneto was their father in the comics (which took 19 years from the moment they were introduced) to get the full context. To a large degree it existed as a point of shame and manipulation for the characters. That they now reveal it was untrue... I think is brilliant!
Remember also that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, while introduced in the X-men title as members of Magneto's Brotherhood, were only on that title (and team) for 5 or 6 of the first 12 issues before they moved on to the Avengers team and would primarily remain thus from then on out. (Excepting Peter David's use of Quicksilver in X-factor, which is also brilliant but has always been fairly a-side from the rest of the X-mutant books anyway.) And neither have EVER been a member of any 616 universe team of "X-men."
My observation is that Fox/Singer only added Quicksilver into DoFP as a dig at Marvel to begin with, due to Whedon's announcement that the twins would be in Avengers 2. (The character was not written into the film, nor an actor cast as the character prior to the announcement. Look it up. The evidence is there.)
Dick move on Fox's part and, despite most opinion, I don't think adding QS to DoFP made any sense or added anything of true value to the film. It was a throw away scene that they could have filled with just about anything. The choice to do it was so they could claim it first, not do it so it was done in a way that made sense to the story. It was trite, contrived, and patronizing. I'm honestly disappointed fans of the film point to that as why they liked it, but it speaks volumes.
IMO, the out-of-house studios that have Marvel rights have not, over time, honored fans in the best way in their use of those rights and their films have shown it. So if Marvel wants to distance itself from them in various ways... I think it's worthwhile and totally acceptable. Marvel has more of my trust than Sony or Fox at this point.
The possibility that Spider-man film IPs will revert to Marvel is exciting! The unfortunate truth about the X-men IPs is that they aren't as likely to revert to Marvel any time soon because, while the run of X-men films haven't always been great, they have made enough money for them to warrant producing more.
Which is fair enough... but I'm more likely to spend money at the box office on an MCU film and wait for the out-of-house Marvel films to go to DVD when I can check them out from a library for free.
Remember also that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, while introduced in the X-men title as members of Magneto's Brotherhood, were only on that title (and team) for 5 or 6 of the first 12 issues before they moved on to the Avengers team and would primarily remain thus from then on out. (Excepting Peter David's use of Quicksilver in X-factor, which is also brilliant but has always been fairly a-side from the rest of the X-mutant books anyway.) And neither have EVER been a member of any 616 universe team of "X-men."
My observation is that Fox/Singer only added Quicksilver into DoFP as a dig at Marvel to begin with, due to Whedon's announcement that the twins would be in Avengers 2. (The character was not written into the film, nor an actor cast as the character prior to the announcement. Look it up. The evidence is there.)
Dick move on Fox's part and, despite most opinion, I don't think adding QS to DoFP made any sense or added anything of true value to the film. It was a throw away scene that they could have filled with just about anything. The choice to do it was so they could claim it first, not do it so it was done in a way that made sense to the story. It was trite, contrived, and patronizing. I'm honestly disappointed fans of the film point to that as why they liked it, but it speaks volumes.
IMO, the out-of-house studios that have Marvel rights have not, over time, honored fans in the best way in their use of those rights and their films have shown it. So if Marvel wants to distance itself from them in various ways... I think it's worthwhile and totally acceptable. Marvel has more of my trust than Sony or Fox at this point.
The possibility that Spider-man film IPs will revert to Marvel is exciting! The unfortunate truth about the X-men IPs is that they aren't as likely to revert to Marvel any time soon because, while the run of X-men films haven't always been great, they have made enough money for them to warrant producing more.
Which is fair enough... but I'm more likely to spend money at the box office on an MCU film and wait for the out-of-house Marvel films to go to DVD when I can check them out from a library for free.
Thanks.Zontar said:
The actual wording of that is... well, it's hardly definitive. He could well be saying that SW+QS aren't Inhumans in the same way that the comics portray them (Terrigenesis event et al) but are more in line with what Agents of SHIELD - which hadn't even started airing its second season at the time he made the comment - has shown special people to be prior to exposure to the Mists.
Also... people lie. Businessmen especially so.
Its because of Fox that they can't use Magneto being their father because they have the film rights to all X-Men characters and using the term Mutant. They were able to grasp Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch because they appear mostly with The Avengers, but Fox still has the right to use them as well since they are classified as Mutants.Burnouts3s3 said:
So its hard for me to really call it a Retcon when they really don't have a choice in the matter and needed to come up with something.
Edit: Bleh fixed studio mixup.
"Apparently Magneto isn't the real father, after all.".
Okay, WOW... ultra low blow there!!! :O
Lamest reason for a retcon ever; not "because it's a cool twist/story/set-up!" but "spite the enemy and bolster something technically unrelated to make more cash".
Okay, WOW... ultra low blow there!!! :O
Lamest reason for a retcon ever; not "because it's a cool twist/story/set-up!" but "spite the enemy and bolster something technically unrelated to make more cash".
Bob, you don't have to sound so surprised that they started this on AoS, while it may not be the most viewed show, or even have ratings as high as marvel might like. it is in no way bad, just kinda meh, but getting better, and what better way to re-boost ratings by making it actually relevant to the rest of the universe, instead of just kinda there but in no way actually affecting the movies.
I personally think it's awesome, for the reason of "Why can't it be both a cool twist AND a spiteful moneymaker?" There's also a LOT of potential for this revelation in the comics, considering that Magneto wasn't always known to be their father in the first place.Kenjitsuka said:
I, for one, will not be joining the ragers in the streets to do their best Spoony impressions.
Even though what you're saying (regarding why Quicksilver was in DOFP) is 99.99% true, I don't see how it's "trite, contrived, and patronizing". Honestly I feel as though they used the character pretty well, his scenes were visually appealing/impressive and the character was quite likable. It all kinda gelled together nice and for me it made sense why he didn't come along to help out for the rest of the film. In other words, I think that they could've done a far worse job integrating him into the story than what we were given.SeeDarkly_Xero said:
OT: ...kay
Seeing as it's part of one of those "Change-everything-forever!!!" events, which I'm not reading because there should only be one a year, thank you very much, I wonder if it will stick for sure this time. I always thought it was all Rick Remender's idea, which speaks to his skill as a writer.Kenjitsuka said:
Likable? Eh, to each their own. Like I said, I can hardly believe people point to him as a reason they liked the film. And how it gelled? I saw it as hammered into a slot of the film that hadn't previous planned to use him. As far as making sense? Wolverine "knows a guy" of whom we've never seen in any previous film or story... When they could have gotten a younger Kurt Wagner for the same operation and that make better sense. And Quicksilver doesn't join them for the remainder... just because? Hell... his entire motivation to participate was lacking. He was built in to be part of an insulated scene because it would have required too much of the rest of the film be re-written (if not re-filmed, which I can't be entirely certain of off the top of my head)... and it showed. I could concede that had it been their original plan to cast him from the start, maybe it could have made the entire film better. But instead it came off like a reactive move meant to protect their usage rights and not really to honor fans of the material.bug_of_war said:
Again... they are doing "X-men" films... so why, with the tremendous character base of actual X-men at their disposal, would they need to add a character that has never been one (let alone was never part of the source material for the film either?)
That's a completely rhetorical question since at least I am convinced of the reason stated previously, while you seem at least .01% unconvinced.
Another way to recognize a key difference between Marvel films and the out-of-house studios:
The first time the public saw Fox's Quicksilver it was to sell breakfast sandwiches for Hardee's.
The first time the public saw MCU's Quicksilver was an after-credit scene that further developed an on-going story.
What does that tell you?
Having grown up in the nineties and knowing most of my lore from the cartoons I'd disagree with your problem here. To me, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch have always been a part of the X-Men franchise since he was a mainstay of the show. This continued on in every other iteration of the X-Men shows by having them play bigger and bigger roles in the stories up to the last venture into animated territory for the X-Men, the excellent Wolverine and the X-Men where their relationship with Magneto was a central plot point.SeeDarkly_Xero said:
If the X-Men franchise is anythin like the Batman franchise, I can guarantee you more people remember the storylines from the shows than they do the the comics.