The Super Mario Apocalypse Will Never Arrive

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

The Super Mario Apocalypse Will Never Arrive

It is the nature of man to want to believe that he is living in the end times, so I can't help feeling that Super Mario Maker represents a natural conclusion of some kind.

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[ZZoMBiE13]

I wonder if a 3D Mario Maker would be met with the same exuberance by the community that Super Mario Maker has? That's an interesting notion.

 

[Bad Player]

"Whatever happens next, that emperor is probably not going to be able to continue ruling from where he left off any time soon. Everyone's seen how all his tricks work."

The problem is that we HAVEN'T seen how all his tricks work.

Nintendo can always come up with new power-ups, new enemies, new mechanics, new terrain types, etc etc that aren't in Super Mario Maker. They can also make 'stylized' 2D platformers--that is, like traditional games of the series but with some huge, main twist--like Yoshi's Woolly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn.

The other advantage of an actual Nintendo Mario game is that you KNOW it's a collection of good levels, whereas with a huge collection of publicly-made levels you need to steal with Sturgeon's Law.

And of course, even if the 2D Mario games stop, they're only a small part of the Mario franchise--there's still the 3D platformers, the sports games, the RPGs, the random spin-offs (like Mario Party), and the sub-franchises under other characters (Luigi, Yoshi, Wario, etc).

 

[SupahEwok]

"Whatever happens next, that emperor is probably not going to be able to continue ruling from where he left off any time soon. Everyone's seen how all his tricks work."

The problem is that we HAVEN'T seen how all his tricks work.

Nintendo can always come up with new power-ups, new enemies, new mechanics, new terrain types, etc etc that aren't in Super Mario Maker. They can also make 'stylized' 2D platformers--that is, like traditional games of the series but with some huge, main twist--like Yoshi's Woolly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn.

The other advantage of an actual Nintendo Mario game is that you KNOW it's a collection of good levels, whereas with a huge collection of publicly-made levels you need to steal with Sturgeon's Law.

And of course, even if the 2D Mario games stop, they're only a small part of the Mario franchise--there's still the 3D platformers, the sports games, the RPGs, the random spin-offs (like Mario Party), and the sub-franchises under other characters (Luigi, Yoshi, Wario, etc).

I was coming in to say basically this, and then a new thought struck me.

What if, when releasing new 2D Mario platformers, Nintendo releases whatever new mechanics the games have as DLC for Mario Maker? Maybe some sort of bundle deal, like the DLC is half off or free if you buy the game they come from. Seems to me to be a pretty profitable venture.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

"Whatever happens next, that emperor is probably not going to be able to continue ruling from where he left off any time soon. Everyone's seen how all his tricks work."

The problem is that we HAVEN'T seen how all his tricks work.

Nintendo can always come up with new power-ups, new enemies, new mechanics, new terrain types, etc etc that aren't in Super Mario Maker. They can also make 'stylized' 2D platformers--that is, like traditional games of the series but with some huge, main twist--like Yoshi's Woolly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn.

The other advantage of an actual Nintendo Mario game is that you KNOW it's a collection of good levels, whereas with a huge collection of publicly-made levels you need to steal with Sturgeon's Law.

And of course, even if the 2D Mario games stop, they're only a small part of the Mario franchise--there's still the 3D platformers, the sports games, the RPGs, the random spin-offs (like Mario Party), and the sub-franchises under other characters (Luigi, Yoshi, Wario, etc).

I was coming in to say basically this, and then a new thought struck me.

What if, when releasing new 2D Mario platformers, Nintendo releases whatever new mechanics the games have as DLC for Mario Maker? Maybe some sort of bundle deal, like the DLC is half off or free if you buy the game they come from. Seems to me to be a pretty profitable venture.

Heh. More like the DLC would be free if you buy the game, activate the Amiibo for the game (if you can find it) and have the amiibo card deck.

But yeah, cynicism aside, that does sound like a great idea.

 

[Fappy]

Thing is, there is no cohesion to any of the creations in Mario Maker. Because levels are all self contained you can't really make a complete Mario experience in the game. When trying to place rewards in a level for finding a secret or going the hardmode path, you can only really reward players with a shortcut to the end. There is nothing short of x3 1ups you can take with you between stages.

Not to mention the fact that 99% of Mario Maker levels are utter trash or auto plays. Something tells me Nintendo just made this game to prove to people we still need seasoned game designers to put our world's together. There are great levels out there but you really need to dig deep to find them.

 

[Covarr]

I feel like, whether they intended to or not, Nintendo has forced their own hand here. There's nothing preventing them from making more 2D Mario games, but they absolutely need to feel fresh. The franchise used to innovate, to add new features, to take different approaches to level design, to change its art and music styles, and generally make each new Mario game feel like a unique product despite being the same at their core. The NSMB games, on the other hand, have all felt stagnant in comparison. I mean, sure, New Super Mario Bros. U was a good game, but everything about it felt like an expansion pack to New Super Mario Bros. Wii, which in turn felt like an expansion pack to New Super Mario Bros. But now, they don't have that option anymore. The next 2D Mario game has to have its own identity. It's the only way it can compete with Super Mario Maker.

P.S. Thanks

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

What if, when releasing new 2D Mario platformers, Nintendo releases whatever new mechanics the games have as DLC for Mario Maker? Maybe some sort of bundle deal, like the DLC is half off or free if you buy the game they come from. Seems to me to be a pretty profitable venture.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this:

Not that I want to imply that Super Mario Maker is anything remotely close to releasing the source code for any of the games it incorporates, but even so, any future official 2D Mario platformers are going to be automatically kneecapped by two immediate questions - couldn't this have been made in Super Mario Maker, and why should we buy it when we can continue playing the theoretically infinite content provided by the community?

Because if they don't provide the tools, you know damn well that the community will kludge something together to make it happen in Mario Maker. I'm still amazed when I remember Trials Files and how people turned a 2D motorcycle game into pinball, a 3d shooter, Marble Madness, and a ton of other great things that have nothing to do with the original concept. Anything in a future Mario game will be reverse-engineered, shared on forums, and become part of Mario Maker, officially or not.

Sure, the level selection is lousy now, but given some time the kiddies will forget about it and the fanatics will start building wonders.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nintendo could also be looking for creativity. MediaMolecule did the same thing with Little Big Planet. Someone created things that even Media Molecule didn't think was possible and they ended up hiring him to work on games.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Here's the thing, Yahtzee might be entirely correct. Miyamoto said this back in September,

?Doing this now at the 30th anniversary [of Super Mario Bros.] is really putting some more of that creativity into the players. But at the same time, we as the developers feel that it?s time for us to move in a new direction, and we?re preparing to work on the future of Super Mario from here on.?

So it might very well be the end of 2D Mario games as we know it.

 

[Jorpho]

All you need to do is look at Yoshi's New Island and you can see that 2D platforming is dead at Nintendo. That thing is a sickly corpse. I can't imagine Woolly World fares much better.

But I suspect some form of Mario Maker containing Super Mario Bros 2 is inevitable. The game is just too popular ? after all, they lead with that one in the Super Mario Advance series.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Another way they could raise the stakes would be to foray into a new genre. We have platforming, racing and RPG. Is a Mario shooter/strategy/stealth/survival iteration completely out of the question? How far can you move before Mario stops being Mario?

 

[09philj]

Now we have Mario Maker, that actually frees Nintendo to try something more experimental with the 2D Mario form. Take the core mechanic of "Mario runs and jumps on monsters and over obstacles" and do something else. There'll be loads of backroom boys at the Big N with some bizarre idea that just might work.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Now we have Mario Maker, that actually frees Nintendo to try something more experimental with the 2D Mario form. Take the core mechanic of "Mario runs and jumps on monsters and over obstacles" and do something else. There'll be loads of backroom boys at the Big N with some bizarre idea that just might work.

When was the last time in recent history that Nintendo applied "bizarre ideas" on their flagship franchises such as Mario or Pokemon, 3D notwithstanding?

 

[Silvanus]

When was the last time in recent history that Nintendo applied "bizarre ideas" on their flagship franchises such as Mario or Pokemon, 3D notwithstanding?

Pokemon Contests/ Super Contests; Super Training; Super Mario Sunshine; Super Mario Maker itself; most of what's happened in the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi series, particularly Bowser's Inside Story; Wind Waker (or indeed, any 3D Zelda since OoT has been drastically different both mechanically and stylistically to the ones before). To expand on what 09philj said: they've already been providing a fair number of courses in both 2D and 3D Mario which don't boil down to avoiding obstacles, and rely on other approaches to the mechanics.

They may rely overmuch on a relatively small stable of franchises (that, I'd agree with), but the notion that they don't innovate within those franchises is silliness. They do so more than the vast majority of other developers.

But I suspect some form of Mario Maker containing Super Mario Bros 2 is inevitable. The game is just too popular ? after all, they lead with that one in the Super Mario Advance series.

Yep, though back then, they did not have nearly as sophisticated data-gathering methods. As far as I know, the mechanics of SMB2 are actually pretty unpopular, and I'd be surprised if we saw a SMB2 mode in SMM before we saw expansion of the existing modes (Koopalings!).

 

[Thanatos2k]

I'm not sure Mario will ever die at this point. Once you reach a certain level of household name-ness you can never truly die; you just go dormant for a few years at a time, wait for the nostalgia to rebuild and then pick up where you left off

Sonic is the opposite example. A household name that keeps going, but is dead to all who really cared about it.

 

[Jorpho]

Another way they could raise the stakes would be to foray into a new genre. We have platforming, racing and RPG. Is a Mario shooter/strategy/stealth/survival iteration completely out of the question? How far can you move before Mario stops being Mario?

Did you forget about Yoshi's Safari? Of course you did.

Yep, though back then, they did not have nearly as sophisticated data-gathering methods. As far as I know, the mechanics of SMB2 are actually pretty unpopular, and I'd be surprised if we saw a SMB2 mode in SMM before we saw expansion of the existing modes (Koopalings!).

Oh, I think they knew what they were doing. (There are also indications [https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_Advance_4:_Super_Mario_Bros._3/Unused_Objects] that more of the mechanics might have made their way into the e-card levels of SMA4.) But you're probably right about the Koopalings; they've been beating those to death.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Another way they could raise the stakes would be to foray into a new genre. We have platforming, racing and RPG. Is a Mario shooter/strategy/stealth/survival iteration completely out of the question? How far can you move before Mario stops being Mario?

Did you forget about Yoshi's Safari? Of course you did.

So what you're saying is they really have nowhere to go?