Whispers of The Old Gods's Rogue and Paladin Legendaries Revealed

[Steven Bogos]

Whispers of The Old Gods's Rogue and Paladin Legendaries Revealed

"Ragnaros, Lightlord" is a hilarious "anti-corruption" version of the classic Ragnaros card.

Blizzard still continues its (painfully) slow reveal of cards for it's upcoming Hearthstone expansion pack: Whispers of The Old Gods [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167003-Hearthstone-Whispers-of-The-Old-Gods-Cards-Revealed#&gid=gallery_6081&pid=1], this time giving us a glimpse at two more class legendaries that are quite unique.

Here are all of the cards that have been revealed since we last checked in [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167003-Hearthstone-Whispers-of-The-Old-Gods-Cards-Revealed#&gid=gallery_6081&pid=7]:

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If you're wondering what these "toxin" cards that Xaril gives you are, here's a full list of them. They are very similar to the "spare parts" cards that were ubiquitous with the Goblins vs. Gnomes expansion.

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If you're looking at some of those cards, particulary "Ragnaros, Lightlord" and thinking "But what about my lore?!?!" Senior Game Designer Ben Brode explained to IGN [http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/28/ign-reveals-a-new-legendary-hearthstone-card] that Hearthstone takes place in a kind of "what-if" universe, and the team thought it would be fun to "anti-corrupt" some classically evil cards.

"Imagine a world where Ragnaros says 'Live Insect' at the end of your turn and heals you instead of dealing 8 damage to your opponent! This is a better world is it not?"

Source: Blizzard [www.battle.net]

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[09philj]

Infest is the best of these.

 

[Steven Bogos]

Infest is the best of these.

Agreed. Can see infest + unleash the hounds being an amazing hand-refilling combo for hunters.

 

[MCerberus]

Infest is the best of these.

Agreed. Can see infest + unleash the hounds being an amazing hand-refilling combo for hunters.

And if my usual luck holds out, I'd get value boars while every hunter I play gets elekks and highmanes.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Oh yeah. I can already feel it. Rival killing my infested 1,2-cost only so King Krush can drop from it.

 

[ArkhamJester]

Welp, out with the antique healbot, in with the cult apothecary

 

[Abomination]

Holy crap that new Ragnaros card is... horrible.

8 cost lightwell with 8/8 stats. A regular Ragnaros would be better in at least 95%+ of encounters.

Maybe if it was 1 mana less.

I can see it being a nice tanky minion that heals itself (on occasion) but since the target of the heal is always random its primary benefit is unreliable.

 

[rcs619]

Holy crap that new Ragnaros card is... horrible.

8 cost lightwell with 8/8 stats. A regular Ragnaros would be better in at least 95%+ of encounters.

Maybe if it was 1 mana less.

I can see it being a nice tanky minion that heals itself (on occasion) but since the target of the heal is always random its primary benefit is unreliable.

I actually think Ragnaros the Lightlord is pretty good. He's basically the antique healbot's effect every turn, and due to the wording on his card his heal can't whiff on a full-health character. On top of that he can actually attack. Really neat card, especially if they nerf Big Game Hunter like everyone is expecting.

Tiron into Lightlord is a scary potential curve.

Infest, Cult Apothecary and the rogue legendary are all legitimately good though. Some pretty cool stuff this expansion so far.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Holy crap that new Ragnaros card is... horrible.

8 cost lightwell with 8/8 stats. A regular Ragnaros would be better in at least 95%+ of encounters.

Maybe if it was 1 mana less.

I can see it being a nice tanky minion that heals itself (on occasion) but since the target of the heal is always random its primary benefit is unreliable.

While it's not particularly amazing, it's still way better than Tentacles for Arms and especially Boogeymonster. Kvaldir Raider is better than the Boogeymonster. I really don't know what they were thinking when they made that. Lightlord you slam on an empty board, heal for 8, and then threaten any of your opponent's minions. Besides, if you're facing aggro, it's possible that they won't even trade with your minions. I could see it being a fairly common situation where your hero is the only character on your side of the field that's damaged.

Edit: also, regular Rag isn't particularly good against aggro. Who cares if it deal 8 damage if it's only crashing that damage into a 3/2.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I actually think Ragnaros the Lightlord is pretty good. He's basically the antique healbot's effect every turn, and due to the wording on his card his heal can't whiff on a full-health character. On top of that he can actually attack. Really neat card, especially if they nerf Big Game Hunter like everyone is expecting.

Tiron into Lightlord is a scary potential curve.

If you're managing to get a Tirion to stick on the board for long enough to put Lightlord behind it you've probably won the game anyway. Nobody is leaving a Tirion up beyond the turn it drops if they can help it.

Ultimately I can only think of a couple of very marginal edge cases where I'd prefer Ragnaros Lightlord over normal Rag, which is a very poor way to justify taking a card. The appeal of Rag is (and always has been) that its a hugely and immediately impactful 8-mana drop which simultaneously gets you a random 8 damage hitting SOMETHING on your opponent's board and a pretty damn chunky 8/8 body which absolutely demands an immediate response. Best case scenario is that you detonate one of your opponent's minions and then they have to burn a lot of smaller minions and spells in order to get rid of it. Worst case scenario is that your opponent uses BGH or something on it, but that means you've forced out a strong piece of removal and you still have your 8 damage that you've done to something (usually enough to kill whatever it hits or more than 1/4 damage to their face).

Its nearly always a trade-up in value and its very fast for a control card since it does the damage immediately (which is why, back in ye olden days of the beta, Ragnaros was the single most recommended control-based legendary craft for a new player; ahead of Ysera which was also highly recommended but is a massively slower card to play; though Pagle was always pretty highly recommended too).

A quick glance across the board notes that damage is often rated as more valuable than heals. Its why Priest's hero power is a directed 2 heal for 2 mana whilst the Mage's hero power is a directed 1 damage for 2 mana. See also Elven Archer vs Voodoo Doctor; both 1 mana cards yet Voodoo Doctor is not only a 2 heal (compared to the Archer's 1 damage) but its also a 2/1 compared to a 1/1. Admittedly both are still rubbish cards.

Lightlord is just too niche and too expensive for what is actually a fairly meh effect. Its a very difficult card to fit into a deck because of what you're going to have to justify leaving out to make it fit. You could MAYBE use it in some kind of ultra slow, extreme control/fatigue deck as a way of prolonging your existence though.

 

[rcs619]

If you're managing to get a Tirion to stick on the board for long enough to put Lightlord behind it you've probably won the game anyway. Nobody is leaving a Tirion up beyond the turn it drops if they can help it.

Ultimately I can only think of a couple of very marginal edge cases where I'd prefer Ragnaros Lightlord over normal Rag, which is a very poor way to justify taking a card.

I think the main difference is that Rag the Firelord is a huge threat that can sometimes, with luck on your side, win a game if you're already ahead. Rag the Lightlord though, he's got the potential to save a game that you're maybe not doing as well in. Lightlord is a huge body that they need to address, who doesn't get nullified by spamming the board with tiny things. Also, he can actually be buffed as well, something you can't actually do to regular Rag.

Its nearly always a trade-up in value and its very fast for a control card since it does the damage immediately (which is why, back in ye olden days of the beta, Ragnaros was the single most recommended control-based legendary craft for a new player; ahead of Ysera which was also highly recommended but is a massively slower card to play; though Pagle was always pretty highly recommended too).

I really hope the heavily-hinted at BGH nerf fixes that some. I'm so sick of *every* big minion being required to have some sort of huge, immediate benefit to even be considered playable. It really limits what you can actually do with your card design. Every class has plenty of big-guy removal at this point now anyway.

In a world where BGH is nerfed, I think Lightlord is a perfectly adequate legendary. Solid body, and his effect is potentially very powerful. If he tops up your hero's health, he can begin to self-sustain his own health too. Kill something, then immediately heal himself back to full as long as you manage your board right.

Lightlord is just too niche and too expensive for what is actually a fairly meh effect. Its a very difficult card to fit into a deck because of what you're going to have to justify leaving out to make it fit. You could MAYBE use it in some kind of ultra slow, extreme control/fatigue deck as a way of prolonging your existence though.

Considering that Paladin seems to be losing its curve, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a slower archetype come around. They won't just be able to play the best minion per-cost on curve anymore. Chow, shieldbot, muster, shredder, belcher, and boom are all going away, and they're also losing their best secret in the form of avenge.

Losing Old Murk-Eye means that Anyfinadin is likely gone too, unless something new is introduced.

Paladin is going to need to go in a whole different direction as a class.

My money is on dragon-paladin finally being a thing. Especially with that new nightmare dragon they revealed. Dragon Consort into Nightmare Dragon + Some kind of buff is a nasty progression of things.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I really hope the heavily-hinted at BGH nerf fixes that some. I'm so sick of *every* big minion being required to have some sort of huge, immediate benefit to even be considered playable. It really limits what you can actually do with your card design. Every class has plenty of big-guy removal at this point now anyway.

In a world where BGH is nerfed, I think Lightlord is a perfectly adequate legendary. Solid body, and his effect is potentially very powerful. If he tops up your hero's health, he can begin to self-sustain his own health too. Kill something, then immediately heal himself back to full as long as you manage your board right.

The issue was never really just BGH though. There's just generally a huge amount of removal in Hearthstone. I mean I've been playing Priest since beta. Right now I'm running a midrange Priest deck and I have three counters to a Ragnaros the Lightlord in this alone in Lightbomb, Shadow Word: Death and Entomb. The issue is that a smart player is always going to preserve hard removal in anticipation of something huge unless they're in a dire situation. So a lot of the time someone is going to have a way to deal with an 8/8. Which means if it doesn't have an immediate and huge impact on the board you're going to be in trouble playing it in the first place. Its why Gruul is such an awful card. Its enormously expensive and NOBODY is leaving a Gruul up for more than one turn if they can help it at all and it does basically nothing except eat a removal if you can't make it last at least that one turn.

You have to basically expect any huge attack card being immediately countered, not just by BGH. Ysera is stickier than a lot of 'big' cards because of her annoying attack value and her enormous health but even she gets removed almost immediately most of the time; plus people sometimes let her stay on the board because its cheaper to whittle her down with minions than blow ultra-important removal (since she only has 4 attack). In contrast I can't remember the last time I saw a Boom last more than the turn he was dropped because 7 attack is nothing to joke about.

My money is on dragon-paladin finally being a thing. Especially with that new nightmare dragon they revealed. Dragon Consort into Nightmare Dragon + Some kind of buff is a nasty progression of things.

People have been citing the uprising of Dragonadin for ages now. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[rcs619]

The issue was never really just BGH though. There's just generally a huge amount of removal in Hearthstone. I mean I've been playing Priest since beta. Right now I'm running a midrange Priest deck and I have three counters to a Ragnaros the Lightlord in this alone in Lightbomb, Shadow Word: Death and Entomb.

That's fair, and also why BGH is no longer really needed. Every class has tons of hard removal, and that removal tends to be passive by and large. My issue with BGH is that he's far too much of a swing-turn. You outright kill a dude, and you get a decentish body on the field. BGH was just something you threw one of into a lot of the decks in the game because he's so good.

Man, losing lightbomb is gonna suck. Oh well, at least they gave us entomb in LOE.

I'm mostly a control player myself. Control priest, pretty much every kind of warlock except the ones that run Leeroy, anyfinadin, and so on. So, I'm really excited for this next expansion. They're taking away a lot of the worst power-creep offenders, and seem to be slowing the game down some. They want it to slow down some anyway, going by the cards they're printing.

And to be fair, I'm not saying Ragnaros the Lightlord will be the best legendary ever, but I could see a world where he sees some play and is situationally powerful. Not like any of the other paladin legendaries are worth a damn besides Tyrion.

I think a lot of the new cards will wind up better than a lot of people expect. It's just going to be a different game once GvG and Naxx rotate out. The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think people may be wrong about Tentacles for Arms. It's basically shadowform for warrior, except they don't lose their hero power. As many turns as control warrior just armors up and passes, that kind of repetitive damage could actually be handy.

People have been citing the uprising of Dragonadin for ages now. I'll believe it when I see it.

Here's hoping. Between dragon priest maybe making a comeback, or dragodin finally becoming a thing, there's gotta be at least one good dragon deck in this new meta.