Bill Roper: "Maybe an Impossible Bar" Set For a New MMOG

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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Bill Roper: "Maybe an Impossible Bar" Set For a New MMOG



Champions Online producer and veteran designer Bill Roper spoke with The Escapist about the launch of Cryptic Studios' superhero MMOG, and admitted that launching a new game in the MMOG industry is pretty damn difficult - but it can be worth it, too.

Bill Roper may be best known to gamers for his work on timeless Blizzard classics like Diablo II and StarCraft, but these days he's hard at work as the Executive Producer of Cryptic Studios' Champions Online, which hit shelves earlier this month. He found time to chat with The Escapist about how the launch had been going - what's it like to launch a new MMOG into a space with dozens of established games?

It's pretty darn difficult, admits Roper: "Certainly, I think that there's a very, very high bar if you're making a (quote/unquote) MMO right now. Maybe an impossible bar." Ignoring launch issues that affect every MMOG from the biggest blockbusters to the smallest boutique titles, a new MMOG is invariably compared to anything that is big and popular with hundreds of thousands of long-time subscribers and years of development under its belt.

[blockquote]This is unfortunate for developers and publishers and players. A new game will come out and get automatically compared to something that has been out for three/four/five years and had tons of development. Wrath of the Lich King came out and introduced the "phasing" concept to WoW, and we've had people tell us that they thought Champions "was fail" because it didn't use phasing. But WoW has been out for almost five years now, and Champions came out twenty-one days ago![/blockquote]

So what's a new MMOG and its development team to do? If most games are "fire and forget" akin to Hollywood films, Roper compared the launch of a new Massive game to the pilot of a new TV show. Since it's only the second or third episode, it isn't quite fair to blame a show for not having six seasons' worth of history and character interactions under its belt, is it? But that doesn't mean that a viewer can't still like the concept and think that they want to be part of the experience: "'Am I on board? Do I want to be part of this world evolving?' Do you like the world, do you like the core game mechanics, are you on board to be with this development team? Do you believe in the developers, are you seeing that they're being responsive and interacting with the community?"

This isn't to say that everything is against the developers of a new MMOG, though. "The biggest bonus we have as developers is the fact that online gameplay is not only accepted but expected in a bunch of games now," says Roper - and sooner or later, the lines of 'what defines an MMO' will continue to blur. Moving forward, Roper thinks, we'll see more developers saying, "[H]ere's a really interesting and fun game, that's also played by a bunch of people online," rather than necessarily worrying about the trappings of what makes an MMOG.

As for Champions itself? It's had its launch hiccups, but Roper is rather enthusiastic about the game's success, saying that not only are subscriptions constantly on the rise, but that "the overwhelming majority of people that have gotten subscriptions play every night. Our numbers of unique logins are ridiculously close to the number of people that bought the game!"

Roper says that he's been "incredibly happy and impressed" by the hard work of the team under him, and while they have more time to play Star Trek Online and offer inter-office feedback these days, the work continues - but more importantly, the communication continues with the community.

That communication, Roper thinks, is critical above all else: "The biggest thing I'm happiest with is that we're incredibly responsive to the community. We talk to them, we let them know what's going on, and we move to address stuff ... We want players to see that we've been working hard, but we've also got lots of stuff in the pipeline. Communication with our community is a key. When there are launch troubles, you have to be assuring the playerbase, 'Yep, we're working through this stuff.'"

To read the full interview with Bill Roper, including his thoughts on the game's recent balance changes, why he isn't worried about Aion, and what hypothetical MMOGs he thinks would sell like hotcakes (hint: Fallout), head on over to our sister site WarCry [http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6574-Bill-Roper-Talks-Champions-Launch].

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Asehujiko

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Perhaps they would have more success if they didn't have to compete with 2 things at once by releasing it within weeks of another mmo every time. WAR and AOC killed each other with it, Darkfail and whatever that other "ZOMG HRADCOER PEEVEEPEE" was called killed each other with it and these guys and Aion are also competing.
 

Crimsane

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Roper's point about communication is very true. If the community feels abandoned, they'll gladly return the favor.

Anyway, I'm going to give it a few months before I even try, and see if the word on the street is still that the game's worth the time and money. Learned my lesson with Hellgate, where word of mouth was "this game's pretty sweet" at launch, but quickly turned into "not as advertised - don't bother" a short while later.
 

KeyMaster45

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Jun 16, 2008
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I approached Champions with a very cautious attitude, after all Cryptic was the developer of City of Heroes and I was somewhat unimpressed with it after about lvl 22. Yes, I'm a hardcore WoW junkie, but Champions online just stunned me when I sat down to play it. It took everything that was great about city of heroes and built on it, and it took most of the things that were bad about city of heroes and improved on it. I say most because Millennium does still feel very "facade" like, and the lack of their area music looping attributes greatly to it.

While I did eventually lose interest in it before my first 30 days were up I can say I greatly enjoyed my time playing it and will most likely pick it up again in the future.
 

WhiteTiger225

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Asehujiko said:
Perhaps they would have more success if they didn't have to compete with 2 things at once by releasing it within weeks of another mmo every time. WAR and AOC killed each other with it, Darkfail and whatever that other "ZOMG HRADCOER PEEVEEPEE" was called killed each other with it and these guys and Aion are also competing.
I think it's less that. And it's more retards "Taking for granted". The people that are still just jumping into an MMORPG thats been out for YEARS and thinking this is how grand it was from day 1 are retarded and need to be sterilized so they cannot reproduce and ruin the gene pool further. That said, I am sure the CoH fanbase will jump on the chance for Champions, and given enough online footage of "Lul I pwn dis dungon n dis n00b" videos, the attention will grow.
 

Asehujiko

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WhiteTiger225 said:
Asehujiko said:
Perhaps they would have more success if they didn't have to compete with 2 things at once by releasing it within weeks of another mmo every time. WAR and AOC killed each other with it, Darkfail and whatever that other "ZOMG HRADCOER PEEVEEPEE" was called killed each other with it and these guys and Aion are also competing.
I think it's less that. And it's more retards "Taking for granted". The people that are still just jumping into an MMORPG thats been out for YEARS and thinking this is how grand it was from day 1 are retarded and need to be sterilized so they cannot reproduce and ruin the gene pool further. That said, I am sure the CoH fanbase will jump on the chance for Champions, and given enough online footage of "Lul I pwn dis dungon n dis n00b" videos, the attention will grow.
So everybody who would rather have fun instead of throw money at something that may or may not become fun at some point in the future needs to be purged? That makes just as little sense as releasing your game within a short timeframe of your direct competitor.
 

WhiteTiger225

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Asehujiko said:
WhiteTiger225 said:
Asehujiko said:
Perhaps they would have more success if they didn't have to compete with 2 things at once by releasing it within weeks of another mmo every time. WAR and AOC killed each other with it, Darkfail and whatever that other "ZOMG HRADCOER PEEVEEPEE" was called killed each other with it and these guys and Aion are also competing.
I think it's less that. And it's more retards "Taking for granted". The people that are still just jumping into an MMORPG thats been out for YEARS and thinking this is how grand it was from day 1 are retarded and need to be sterilized so they cannot reproduce and ruin the gene pool further. That said, I am sure the CoH fanbase will jump on the chance for Champions, and given enough online footage of "Lul I pwn dis dungon n dis n00b" videos, the attention will grow.
So everybody who would rather have fun instead of throw money at something that may or may not become fun at some point in the future needs to be purged? That makes just as little sense as releasing your game within a short timeframe of your direct competitor.
*looks through his post* nope.. nope I am not seeing that at all. Maybe you are reading it using the "Liberal's Misquoting Encyclopedia" but that is not what I am saying in normal english. What I am saying is the idiots who were quoted as saying "Champions doesn't have phasing n00b!" as their reason for not playing are taking for granted a mechanic that was released only after years of further developement after the initial release. And especially the people who jump in, and act like WoW started off with all these amazing features, races, dungeons, landscapes, etc instead of realizing that MMOs half the time are released at 30-45% completion and actually finish adding shit as they go so they can make money to help pay the server costs so that they can finish the game up, fix bugs, etc with actual feedback, and with money to get the servers started and keep them running while doing this.

To put it this way.. you are making a very pretty metal making machine. To finish making it to the prettyness you want it to be and to work perfectly, you are going to need 100,000 pieces of metal. You have 150,000 pieces of metal, and to start this machine (In this metaphore this includes advertising as well) it costs around 90,000 metal pieces. Instead of finishing it and then failing to start it all because you lack resources, you start the baby chugging within working parameters, and start finishing the tweaking and prettyfying of it while it starts a small, but steadily increasing flow of metal pieces for you to use.

My point was, it seems most idiots don't understand this process when it comes to making online games that take a large budget and instead look to games that have been out years and gotten past this stage (Somewhat) and go "Well this is better then that", and at that, using a recently added function in the comparison. Which makes me ask... "What kept you playing before then?"
 

phoenix352

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sadly i wont ever play this game or any other mmo based on a monthly fee subscription thing....
 

DRADIS C0ntact

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phoenix352 said:
sadly i wont ever play this game or any other mmo based on a monthly fee subscription thing....
Monthly subscription MMO's are better deals than other games when you compare the amount of playtime you get out of them. $15 bucks a month for a game that I can easily spend 20 or more hours a week playing...that's 80 hours of gameplay for $15 dollars. Compare that to a new shooter that costs $60 and only lasts 10 hours, if that.
 

phoenix352

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DRADIS C0ntact said:
phoenix352 said:
sadly i wont ever play this game or any other mmo based on a monthly fee subscription thing....
Monthly subscription MMO's are better deals than other games when you compare the amount of playtime you get out of them. $15 bucks a month for a game that I can easily spend 20 or more hours a week playing...that's 80 hours of gameplay for $15 dollars. Compare that to a new shooter that costs $60 and only lasts 10 hours, if that.
might be a better deal but a shooter with 10 hours usualy comes with a 2 year guarantee of having online multilayer servers for free... i played cod4 for 2 and a half years...

and i dont like having my play time restricted by something like a monthly fee... it gives the game a feel that if your not playing a lot of hours your wasting your money...and at that point the game just becomes like a second job sucks the fun out of it for me....
 

TsunamiWombat

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DRADIS C0ntact said:
phoenix352 said:
sadly i wont ever play this game or any other mmo based on a monthly fee subscription thing....
Monthly subscription MMO's are better deals than other games when you compare the amount of playtime you get out of them. $15 bucks a month for a game that I can easily spend 20 or more hours a week playing...that's 80 hours of gameplay for $15 dollars. Compare that to a new shooter that costs $60 and only lasts 10 hours, if that.
Correction, they're good deal when you don't have to pay $50 upfront for the game as well. $50 + 15 = $65 startup cost, + 15 every month...

Even lower that to 40, and thats a much better value.
 

DRADIS C0ntact

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phoenix352 said:
DRADIS C0ntact said:
phoenix352 said:
sadly i wont ever play this game or any other mmo based on a monthly fee subscription thing....
Monthly subscription MMO's are better deals than other games when you compare the amount of playtime you get out of them. $15 bucks a month for a game that I can easily spend 20 or more hours a week playing...that's 80 hours of gameplay for $15 dollars. Compare that to a new shooter that costs $60 and only lasts 10 hours, if that.
might be a better deal but a shooter with 10 hours usualy comes with a 2 year guarantee of having online multilayer servers for free... i played cod4 for 2 and a half years...

and i dont like having my play time restricted by something like a monthly fee... it gives the game a feel that if your not playing a lot of hours your wasting your money...and at that point the game just becomes like a second job sucks the fun out of it for me....
Yeah that's true, MMOs require a large time investment to really feel like you're getting your money's worth out of it. So if you know you'll have a month where you won't be able to play very much, it may indeed seem like a waste of money. But you can always cancel your subscription for that month and renew it later on when you get more time. Your characters are not deleted if you cancel.
 

Bretty

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I wish them the best.

But I think the hardest thing for Devs to realise is that most people that play MMOs today started with WoW. Therefore most the people playing their games will most probably have a biased if not rediculous expectation of what their game will offer.

Unfortunately, this is just the way it is. It is also the reason I think the best an MMO can hope to acheive is to stay just in profit and keep going. Nothing will be better than WoW, unless they make a WoW 2. I also think the demographics of an MMO player is getting younger and younger so patience and fanboyism is only going to get worse as time goes on.

FYI, I play WAR, well did, and before that WoW for 4+ years. Too many people have left that game now, shame really, much more fun than WoW. I am sticking with SP games from now on, I just dont have the time to be competitive in MMOs.
 

Credge

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I've got some stuff to get off of my chest about CO. But before I do, let me sing it's praises in list format.

1. The gameplay is smooth.

2. The skills are fun with most being useful.

3. PVE, for the most part, is incredible fun.

On to what I'm upset about right now.

Currently one of my characters (level 30) is without content to do. I've done every quest in my level range, gone back and done quests, and I'm just flat without content. I can grind, do PVP (I'll get to this in a minute), or do group quests. The problem is that none of these things are actually fun.

So, where did this problem occur? Well, those four to five quests I missed in my mid 20's resulted in my having a massive content gap. It doesn't help that there is actually a gap in content in this level range as well. I imagine once I hit 31, in about a week, I'll have a hand full of quests to do and then I'll be questless again, having to resort in the game thing.

My other big complaint in this game is PVP. It's a blast. It's great fun. But then a group of five people decide to group up, all with characters who have knock downs, knock backs, holds, invulnerability, heals, and teleport and just ruin the fun. It's not fun. Period.

Even going up against one of these people is dumb. Great. You stand there holding block with invulnerability on. I do (BLOCK) damage. Fantastic. Oh, whats this? You shotgunned me and it knocked me back? Cute. Oh, you used iron lariat to knock me towards you right after I got up? Incredible. Oh, you charged up a force blast while I was flying through the air resulting in me being knocked away again? Stellar.

Repeat this about 75% of the time and you've got a typical day PVP'ng in CO. Whenever you don't go against people like that, it's a blast. Games are typically close.

The FFA arenas are boring. You'll spend some time killing a guy when, right before he dies, somebody flies by spamming tap abilities to take your kill resulting in you having low health and power, the enemy getting the kill, and the guy who stole your kill has full health. Or, they'll teleport away. Doing it over. And over. And over. And you can't do anything. Why? I dunno, ask Roper.

The PVP in this game would be an absolute blast if they could figure out a way to actually make teleport non-broken. As it stands though, the majority of people have teleport.
 

CymTyr

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I sort of agree with Roper. Far, far, far too many people compare new mmos to WoW, with no validity or good reason.

WoW's been out 5 years now, that's a lot of time to continually develop content and polish bugs (it still has new bugs with every new patch btw).

I play Aion and fortunately the number of people who troll (purposely, mind you) saying WoW is so much better or that it's the first (yes some of the trolls actually say WoW was the first mmo just to get a reaction) are fairly limited on my server.

With any new mmo you have to not really listen to the playerbase the first month, unless they're reporting broken stuff. ~25% of that playerbase just wants WoW with a new skin. I wish more mmo devs would realize this and only pay attention to the people actually trying to help make their game better. A good mmo will lose roughly 25% of its initial box sales after the first month, gain 50-75% of those back via word-of-mouth, and continually grow with its own audience. I know this probably doesn't sound like it makes sense, but there are sooo many WoW players just looking for a quick fix, that you have to factor in most of them will just go back to WoW.

It's happened with every mmo that's come out in the past few years, I don't see why CO and Aion will be different.
-Cym
 

gekidoslair

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Aug 24, 2009
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"what mmo would sell like hotcakes"...

um...you mean, something like Fallen Earth? An MMO that doesn't pander to the WoW kiddies and is ACTUALLY, of all things, FUN. Not only that but you actually DO STUFF and the gameplay actually requires a bit of skill to succeed.

What a novelty. Oh and the crafting system is awesome.

http://www.fallenearth.com
 

Miral

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Jun 6, 2008
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DRADIS C0ntact said:
Yeah that's true, MMOs require a large time investment to really feel like you're getting your money's worth out of it. So if you know you'll have a month where you won't be able to play very much, it may indeed seem like a waste of money. But you can always cancel your subscription for that month and renew it later on when you get more time. Your characters are not deleted if you cancel.
I'd be happier if MMOs here offered additional payment plans similar to (what I've heard are) those available in Asian countries -- instead of paying a fixed amount per month for however many hours you can squeeze into playing, charge a fixed (but much smaller) amount per gameplay hour actually used. They still get the money up front (because they're sold in packages of X hours) but then that could last you for several months if you can't / don't want to play as often. If you don't play the game for a year, you don't pay anything extra, and you don't even have to go to the hassle of cancelling.

Some of us don't have 20 hours a week spare.