308: First Kisses (And Deaths-By-Molester)

Chuck Wendig

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First Kisses (And Deaths-By-Molester)

Good stories live in the complexities and corollaries born of more nuanced moral choices. Sometimes, you just have to get in the car with the child molester.

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Dark Harbinger

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Apr 8, 2011
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That is amazing. Is Alter-Ego available to play online? I'd love to give it a go.

It'd be interesting to see if I could follow the footsteps of Pink from The Wall. ^^
 

Tuqui

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Mar 2, 2011
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Amazing read, and amazing game alter ego is. Keep up the great work, that game me a 10 mins read that will give me a day to think.
 

TheKruzdawg

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Apr 28, 2010
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That level of detail for choices sounds amazing! If Alter Ego were available anywhere, I would definitely want to pick it up after reading this. Times like this is when I lament the fact that I'm too young to have experienced games like this and missed out on other early console games because my parents didn't buy me a system until the Playstation.

If there was a game out there now that featured a system like this would definitely make an impact on gaming as a whole and could even help give gaming some better credibility to those who seem to want to bash it at every turn.
 

Sjakie

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Feb 17, 2010
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I wish gamedevelopers would pick up on these kind of moral dilemma's. The newer RPG's get dumbed down into action-RPG's. Still fun, but it is less RPG and more action. Gray choices are way more interesting then the black and white ones.
The Witcher 2 does bring back this way of choosing and it gets positive reviews for it. So there is hope for the future.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Chuck Wendig said:
Also during infancy, I'm confronted with another baby who gets his face too close to mine. One of my options is to punch him. So, I think, "Screw it, I'm going to beat king hell out of this other baby," if only to see what the game does with that choice. The answer? Surprisingly, while my Gentleness stat goes down, my Physical stat goes up. I just got rewarded for playing Baby Fight Club.
And that's the ticket.

Yes, we generally assume that punching a baby is wrong... but the game doesn't tell you that, does it? The game simply provides you the reasonable outcomes of that behavior--you're less gentle, but you're stronger. It's up to you to decide whether that's a good thing or not.

I'm put in the mind of comic books, and specifically those old "comic book pricing guides." "Super Duper Comics #1? That's worth $11-ty billion." There were even guidelines as to what constituted mint versus near mint condition. It always came back to a "Says who?" problem. Just like every kid learned when they went to a comic shop and tried to sell that "$100 comic." The price guide is bunk. Each person decides for themselves how much that particular comic is worth to them. If I'm not willing to pay you $100 for that issue, it's not worth $100 (to me).

In most games these days, that's how morality works. Somewhere in the game's story (and code) is a little pricing guide. It tells you that behavior X is worth Y positive (or negative) morality points and it tells you that more morality points is better. Often, we don't enjoy these systems because they leave us with a subconscious, "Says who?"

Players must be allowed (and even challenged) to assign their own value to actions. Rather than behavior X being worth any amount of morality points, behavior X leads to outcome Y and unintended consequence Z, to be revealed later. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad. Maybe Y outweighs Z, maybe it doesn't. Maybe some people loved Y, while others hated it, and their opinions toward me reflect that... but maybe I'm okay with that trade-off, and I feel I've come out on top.

When we take the morality out of the moral choice system, at least in the overly-direct way, we start to get into real choices. We can start crafting moral dilemmas. And unless both options are equally enticing, there's no "dilemma."

One good thing that Fallout: New Vegas did is separate karma from reputation. Stealing things gave you bad karma... but you only lost reputation if you got caught by the people you were stealing from. And stealing for another faction? Sure, it was negative karma, but it was positive reputation for them. In a sense, morality is decided by whether or not what you did benefited a particular group. If it did, they could look the other way.

Morality had more than two options. You could be seen as a hero by one group, and a villain by another. And if you were heroic through villainous means (like stealing), some folks might mention the fact that you're a bit of a jerk... but they'll still work with you, without trusting you completely. The system could have gone a lot further with this, but it was already on the right track.

Alter Ego sounds like excellent study material for anyone looking into making a "choice-consequence" system, which is far more meaningful than a "morality" system anyway.
 

Knusper

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Sep 10, 2010
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I just gave it a go and managed to drink cleaning fluid, cause digestive problems, burn the house down and get burns on 30% of my body and get killed by aforementioned stranger all in about 20 minutes. This seems like a pretty cool game.
 

chuckwendig

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Jun 29, 2010
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First:

You can play it: http://www.playalterego.com/

Second:

As a sidenote, in my bio you'll note I mention "unborn progeny," who was scheduled to be born tomorrow. He decided to be two weeks early, so, not so much with the "unborn." :)

Now, time for him to play his own personal game of ALTER EGO.

-- c.
 

ItsAChiaotzu

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ARGH. I got tortured and killed after running away! My physical stat was 100! How the fuck did he catch me? Not cool, game.
 

Formica Archonis

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Chuck Wendig said:
First Kisses (And Deaths-By-Molester)
And how did I know this'd be about Alter Ego? Really novel game, I have to say. And yes, I think we ALL got killed by the molester at least once just to see if the game had the guts to do it. (The last option before you die IIRC even breaks the fourth wall and calls you out on this.)

The hell of it was it taught me a lesson in being observant - they tell you the plate number at the very START of the encounter, before it's obvious what he intends. Then if you do the sane thing and run away, you're asked to recall it for the police.

I couldn't do it. I'd read the damn thing not a minute before real-time and I couldn't even guess it off a multiple-choice list of five(?) similar options because it hadn't seemed important. Was quite the lesson for me in paying a bit more attention to the mundane.
 

Scionical

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Jun 29, 2010
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It amazes me the simplicity of morality in most games, and I get why some games do it - they want to make it cut and dry to lure the instant gratification crowd to replay. That's why some games let you flip-flop right before the end. It kind of bugs me, but I just chalk it up to my own personal tastes vs. the will of the majority. Sure, I like the scent of bovine taint. That doesn't man anyone else should.

With that said, it would be nice if there were more "niche" games that cover the morality spectrum. The closest things I have found to them in modern games are the Japanese dating/hentai games, and I just feel dirty for even thinking about them.
 

RJ Dalton

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Aug 13, 2009
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Man, I was going to write an essay on this very subject. Now it's redundant. Thanks a lot.

It's a good article, though.
 

Elf Defiler Korgan

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Apr 15, 2009
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Good work, simplicity has come about through games. It is disturbing and why I avoid so many new titles and stick to good pen and paper games and their groups.
 

Tzekelkan

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I played the game a while ago, on Extra Creditz' recommendation. It was awesome, as I spent a 4-hour session (instead of studying for an exam) living my life. I remember managing to be pretty fit and smart during my youth, but I lost it as I got older. I finally died old, while playing baseball with my children (grandchildren?). I had jumped to catch the ball, caught it spectacuarly in mid-air while simultaneously having a heart-attack and dieing with a smile on my face.

I was amazed. It was great.
 

plugav

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Wow, looks like an amazing game. I just spent an hour playing it instead of writing a paper that's due tomorrow. Which seems like a rather unfortunate moral choice in itself.
 

Sartan0

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Apr 5, 2010
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Wow, I had heard of this back in the day but had not tried it. Fun game and rather different.
 

Lord_Kristof

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Sep 24, 2010
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I had this idea for a cRPG morality mechanic which is basically copied (but somewhat simplified) from The World of Darkness P&P RPG. There's a set of Virtues and Vices there (the Vices are basically the Seven Deadly Sins), so I thought, "Why not have some choices in the game give you points in a given Virtue or Vice, not in a general Good or Evil direction?". It would be hard to get quite right, but it would be very awesome. Especially if these choices would be abstracted as to not be a point value, but rather an intensity of a colour, perhaps? Like, if my "aura" has a lot of red overtones, that means I've been quite Angry recently. But at the same time, I may be a very Just person. See, not black & white anymore?

cRPGs have a lot to learn from P&P RPGs. There's another system which works similarly, seen in the King Arthur Pendragon RPG, where you play a Knight and have a set of Good and Evil traits. Raising one decreses the other and vice versa. That's cool as well, because I may be playing a very Calm and Just person, but at the same time be Lustful and Proud.

And in the end, you get to choose one of the ending depending on two or three of your dominating traits.

I can totally see this working out, if only somebody decided to try and do it! That would be a proper RPG...
 

BloodSquirrel

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Dastardly said:
I'm put in the mind of comic books, and specifically those old "comic book pricing guides." "Super Duper Comics #1? That's worth $11-ty billion." There were even guidelines as to what constituted mint versus near mint condition. It always came back to a "Says who?" problem. Just like every kid learned when they went to a comic shop and tried to sell that "$100 comic." The price guide is bunk. Each person decides for themselves how much that particular comic is worth to them. If I'm not willing to pay you $100 for that issue, it's not worth $100 (to me).
Actually, no. The personal value to each person is subjective, but there is a market value based on supply and demand. I might not care much about Action Comics #1, but it's definitely worth more than $100, seeing as I could easily re-sell it for much, much more than that. A comic book shop, being precisely in that business, is going to buy your comic or not based on what he thinks it will go for to the highest bidder, not what he personally thinks of the comic.

The problem with the "comic book pricing guides" was probably just that they weren't very accurate, especially since only old, rare comics are actually worth serious money. In fact, I'd wager that it was printed primarily as a tool to get little kids to buy comics for more than they were worth.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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BloodSquirrel said:
Actually, no. The personal value to each person is subjective, but there is a market value based on supply and demand. I might not care much about Action Comics #1, but it's definitely worth more than $100, seeing as I could easily re-sell it for much, much more than that. A comic book shop, being precisely in that business, is going to buy your comic or not based on what he thinks it will go for to the highest bidder, not what he personally thinks of the comic.

The problem with the "comic book pricing guides" was probably just that they weren't very accurate, especially since only old, rare comics are actually worth serious money. In fact, I'd wager that it was printed primarily as a tool to get little kids to buy comics for more than they were worth.
Yes, there is a "market value" based on supply and demand... and that value is subject to the very individual market in which this transaction is taking place. Also, it's subject to the personal assessment of the person with whom you're negotiating.

One store might only offer you $100 for the comic, while another somewhere else offers you $10,000. It's not solely based on personal preference (though a dealer that doesn't like a particular series might underestimate his ability to re-sell it for more), and that's not what I meant by someone deciding "what it's worth to them."

For some people, yes, the trade is based on how they feel about the comic. For others, it's based on what they feel they could get from the comic in another, future transaction. That feeling may be based on a lot of information aside from personal feelings, but it is still very individual.

The idea is that the price in "the guide" doesn't have any authority whatsoever. In the end, the two parties involved in the transaction will reach their own conclusion based on far more individual assessments.

Now, for the section I've bolded: how do you know you could see it for much, much more than that? Could be that all of the people interested in it already have it. Could be that they'd be more willing to just buy a re-print for a normal price, rather than go after an original. Could be that they disagree with your assessment of its condition. There's no guarantee until you find a buyer and get a guarantee from that buyer. That's the point I was making there.

Well, sub-point. The larger point is that we can similarly alter the supposed value of a consequence based on personal beliefs about the weight of that consequence, the weight of the mitigating factors, the perceived benefit (now or later), and many other factors. When the game forces a particular value on us, it reads as artificial. We know it's not our conclusion, so we reject it.