Grasping At Immorality: A Tale of Two Games

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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Grasping At Immorality: A Tale of Two Games

In terms of moral choices, how does Modern Warfare 2 compare to Far Cry 2?

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Xvito

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That was an interesting read. And yes, I did find the morality of your missions in Far Cry 2 somewhat disturbing, but I also found the story in that game too enthralling to stop playing. The conversations with The Jackal that are scattered on tapes throughout the world, giving his view of the morality of war, are just fantastic.

Compared to Far Cry 2; Modern Warfare 2 is just a little kid craving attention...

Also, you killed people in the first Modern Warfare as well. It doesn't really matter if they are civilians or not, it's still despicable. (Except for the fact that it is a game)
 

MGlBlaze

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Yet compare that single scene - which is, I would hope, ultimately a look at the tangled web of higher causes - to the entirety of Far Cry 2, a game in which running people down and setting them on fire is something you do while driving yourself to other areas of the game, where you'll do the really bad stuff. Far Cry 2 is one of the most utterly amoral games I've ever played, yet it rated nary a wagging finger from anyone except dissatisfied game critics. Can someone explain this to me?

I'm not so dense as to suggest that there aren't obvious differences: Modern Warfare 2 was destined to be a behemoth from the moment it was announced, while Far Cry 2 was never going to be more than a run-of-the-mill shooter cashing in on the limited fame of its popular PC predecessor. And maybe there are some real-world prejudices at work here too, which is a nice way of saying that nobody gives a shit what happens in Africa as long as it stays in Africa. But in the end, isn't it just a little hypocritical - or even a lot - to get so worked up over a game that dares to portray complex heroism, yet not even notice one that turns us into unrepentant monsters?
Well, you asked for an explaination, so I'll offer my own perspective;

There is such an uproar over the scene in Modern Warfare 2 because 90% of the human race are inconsistent, hypocritical, ill-informed, stubborn, ignorant, easily-swayed creatures that often form biased opinions in one way or another for anything and everything in sight. Fanboys and Fan-Haters take these to the extremes, but it's present to smaller degrees (not by much smaller sometimes) in everyone.

There isn't any one reason I can pin down on exactly why the scene in MW2 was supposedly so much worse, but it may be due to the fact that far fewer people cared about FC2 than MW2, so FC2 mostly passed under the radar, and since MW2 got so much more hype and attention, suddenly that OPTIONAL scene is much worse. Q.E.D. for many humans being ill-informed, inconsistent and hypocritical. Stubborn and ignorant, too, since they seem to not care it's optional.

Not to mention the Africa-versus-Russia thing you mentioned, which in and of ITSELF has unfortunate implications.

I didn't see much controversy over the CoD4 nuke, either, for some strange reason. Or the part where you are seeing through the eyes of the guy about to get executed.

That's my two cents on it, anyway.
 

dududf

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Everyone goes apeshit when a extremely popular games has something potentially offensive to some.

Why? Because it's BIG , and POPULAR no one cares that a kinda cruddy game has something bad in it, but a BIG NAME title having something bad in it ? OoooOooh Boy the attention whores at Fox news, and various religous groups( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96145-U-K-Religious-Leaders-Hate-On-Modern-Warfare-2 ) trying to look on the "Moral High ground" will use it as a way to draw attention to themselves, honestly I don't think they give 2 shits about the scene in the game but by pretending they do so people will people watch.

Hard to explain just TRYING to say that they are hopping on the hate bandwagon for popularity because for what ever reason they have.

Anywho, interesting read good as usual.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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I say keep pushing envelopes when it comes to developing a good story and screw what the "screaming and outrage = profit" news organizations and parents say.. especially parents because they're the ones ignoring age restrictions.

Again, its an example of games being held to a different standard than other things like moves: In the movie "chinatown", the bad guys win! The bad guy is a realistate tycoon that is creating droughts in southern california and ruining farmers so he can buy the land cheap and control it, he also is searching for his daughter, whom he knocked up, and eventually kill for trying to run away with their incesty offspring, allowing him to keep his incestous grandchild to continue his pervy sex... and this is considered one of the best movies ever made!

So although I hate activision and EA, I encourage all developers to keep trying new things, and screw everyone else.
 

MGlBlaze

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Nurb said:
I say keep pushing envelopes when it comes to developing a good story and screw what the "screaming and outrage = profit" news organizations and parents say.. especially parents because they're the ones ignoring age restrictions.

Again, its an example of games being held to a different standard than other things like moves: In the movie "chinatown", the bad guys win! The bad guy is a realistate tycoon that is creating droughts in southern california and ruining farmers so he can buy the land cheap and control it, he also is searching for his daughter, whom he knocked up, and eventually kill for trying to run away with their incesty offspring, allowing him to keep his incestous grandchild to continue his pervy sex... and this is considered one of the best movies ever made!

So although I hate activision and EA, I encourage all developers to keep trying new things, and screw everyone else.
Pretty much this, too.

Also, that movie sounds seriousely messed up, but at the same time it provides a good example of just how hypocritical and full of double-standards people are so much of the time. I don't think I've ever heard of a game even remotely that messed up, but I think we all know what might happen if it was planned.

Hell, 6 Days In Fallujah faced serious controversy, and compared to that movie, 6DIF is pretty much preschool-oriented.

On that note, I still hope Atomic Games finds a new publisher for that game... Probably won't happen though...
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well I suspect two things:

#1: Right now we have a strong pro-censorship goverment that is attempting to jump all over gaming. Whether people want to believe it or not, consider that the "Hot Coffee" fiasco had people from both parties involved but perhaps the biggest ring leader was Hillary Clinton (look it up). Hillary is now in a federal cabinet position.

The changing wind in the US (going from making noise to more definate pressure) has of course emboldened other nations as well. Australia and Germany for example have tightened their laws on video games, largely I feel because it's not like anyone can point any fingers with the most free country in the world moving towards the same things.

Basically it IS stupid, but Modern Warfare is the bad boy of the moment that gets attention.

Besides which, right and wrong CAN be matters of perspective. To put things into context, while your character in Far Cry is doing some things considered conventionally bad, it can (and has been) argued that outside intervention through helping to maintain water pipelines, provide medicine, etc... simply creates more problems within an overpopulated part of the world. The idea being that if we were to say let Africans die by the millions due to disease, poverty, drought, etc... eventually the population would reduce itself over a few generations as "Cruel" as it would be, but the reduced population would be fitting within what the resources of the region could support and sheer survival would probably deal with a lot of the other issues in the region such as factional violence.

I don't articulate it well, but over the years I've read some rather pessimistic analysis of when doing the right thing can actually be the wrong thing. Especially when you look at discussions of human overpopulation, and how fighting some of the symtoms simply drag things out and make them worse over a period of time.

Of course not being a shooter fan, I haven't played much "Far Cry" so I could be wrong as to the attitude and some of what is being said. I'm just guessing. Personally if I had to pick examples of "bad" they would be the various sandbox crime games (which HAVE gotten complaints). In those games it pretty much says flat out your the bad guy, and half the "fun" of the game is to randomly commit acts of violence and terrorism to see how the world reacts.


#2: I wouldn't be surprised if Infinity Ward is actually responsible for a lot of this at the same time and is intentionally baiting/feeding the media somehow. It after all gets attention for the game. The very fact that any sane person looking at this in the context of gaming realizes it's fairly mild as far as such things go, is part of why I suspect it was set off intentionally as part of a marketing campaign.

After all consider a lot of gamers enjoy the potential to be bad and seeing things "push the envelope". Hence discussions on the level of content in "Fallout" through the years, and talk about "what you can do" in various sandbox games.

Truthfully, any rational person would have gone after Prototype earlier this year if they were looking for a victim. You can say more about that game being "just plain wrong" than you can about Modern Warfare 2 where the protaganist is at least serving the greater good.

For example in Prototype the game gives you an achievement for rapidly killing people, and encourages you to eat innocents for more power. It also sends crossed messages (as people like Yahtzee have even commented on) where despite killing people left and right the protaganist still makes pretensions of somehow being the good guy. The scene Yahtzee painted in his review of the protaganist running people over on sidewalks using a tank and going "gorsh, I seriously hope I'm doing the right thing" was 100% accurate.

In Prototype your NOT a CIA agent your a bloody sociopath's personality adopted by a murderous virus.

... and honestly I'm cool with Prototype. I mean to me it has the whole "Godzilla" thing going for it (and honestly, nobody watching those movies is actually cheering for the military or the poor squishy people getting crushed as the two monstrosities do battle).


So in short for those who read this far, it's both political, and probably a matter of the company poking the politicians to get some free press. I'd suspect the contreversy has a lot to do with the number of units they have moved.
 

Cousin_IT

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A difference, perhaps, is that while Far Cry 2 spends the whole game making you place as an amoral gun for hire, able & willing to kill anyone for any reason; MW2 has a single, isolated & seperated sequence in an otherwise James Bondesque action-fantasy setting where there is no question over who is good & who is bad.

This isn't like the scene everyone goes apeshite in favour for in the first game, where you are unexpectedly forced to experience a soldier dying from massive radiation poisoning, surrounded by the charred remains of his dead comrades. The airport scene is indirectly relevant to the game experience as a whole (otherwise it wouldn't be skippable), indeed to the point its not unlike that random airplane mission at the end of the first MW game. Sure, it reminds you the bad guy is the bad guy, but since he's already a sadistic nutter with less gray areas then Ernst Stavro Blofeld, I don't see why presenting players with an example of his madness helps. Theres no question that he is an exaggerated mad bad guy, so why is this scene necessary to remind us?

Cynically, I also wouldn't be surprised if the footage of these scene was purposely leaked by an employee of either Activision or Infinity Ward, precisely because controversy boosts sales. Certainly the fact that it was always designed as a separate & totally skippable scene suggests they a) knew it would be very controversial & b) the fact its separate & skippable perhaps suggests controversy was a motivator for keeping it.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Explanation: Like "sex" or "naked", the words "Modern Warfare" trebles the number of times an article is going to be read.

It doesn't really matter what your opinion on it is anymore, just as long as you have an opinion, people will read it. It's like Britney Spears, custom-built to stay in the headlines.

What makes MW that bit more worrying is the warnings; the casual slaughter in Far Cry is no worse than the casual slaughter in L4D, TF2 or anything else.

But MewTwo says "ooh, this is quite nasty, you don't want to play this if you can't handle it."; and bingo, we have people clamouring to, pardon my French, skullfuck civilians.

As a testament, take a look at the new armoured zombies on L4D2. The only way to take them down is putting a shot into their spine, at which point the entrails flap away to reveal a torn spine. That's far more disturbing than anything I've seen up to date, and it's because that little line between reality and fantasy is crossed. As such, I'm delaying my purchase until I can deal with it.

At no point does Far Cry ever make you feel as though the goons are even human; they're just pixellated targets. MewTwo sets you up at the start to blow holes in real life innocents.

That's where the line is, imho.
 

Otterpoet

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Prototype bothered me on a deeper level than Far Cry 2.

FC2 - effectively - is a remake of Heart of Darkness in Africa with the Jackal standing in for Col. Kurtz. If you actually listen to his justifications - as unsettling as they are - they do make some fevered sense in this ugly, embittered world. And at the end [spoiler alert], you do have the opportunity to 'redeem' yourself. That is the essense of a tragic hero... redemption. And let's get it out in the open... the people you are cutting down are mercs, soldiers, and bandits... not exactly innocents.

In Prototype, you're carving up and consuming humans for the hell of it. I once caught myself grabbing some innocent as a quick snack, just in case I took damage. "Lunch," escaped my lips before a wave of guilt struck me. As I played, I felt my moral compass go south and drop into the ninth level of Hell. And there was an insidiousness to it, as well... a slow descent I recognized, but did not resist. By the end, you aren't redeemed. You're just a thug that gained revenge for personal purposes. A monster and nothing more.

And was there even a whimper about that in the media? Nope.

And yet MW2 gets nailed to the cross for showing a sequence that you're more than likely to see in any given season of 24... which, ironically, is produced by Fox.
 

300lb. Samoan

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Well done, thank you for finding such a good frame for the hypocrisy of this entire controversy. Modern Warfare 2 isn't going anywhere with its terrorism scene that could possibly be worse than most of the history of violent video gaming. People are just hanging their political hats on a hot trend. I think the set up of that scene has the potential to be really engaging and offer a true sense of moral weight to the story - I'm hoping just as you are that it plays around the entanglements of higher motivations.
 

MasterSqueak

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Explanation: Like "sex" or "naked", the words "Modern Warfare" trebles the number of times an article is going to be read.

It doesn't really matter what your opinion on it is anymore, just as long as you have an opinion, people will read it. It's like Britney Spears, custom-built to stay in the headlines.

What makes MW that bit more worrying is the warnings; the casual slaughter in Far Cry is no worse than the casual slaughter in L4D, TF2 or anything else.

But MewTwo says "ooh, this is quite nasty, you don't want to play this if you can't handle it."; and bingo, we have people clamouring to, pardon my French, skullfuck civilians.

As a testament, take a look at the new armoured zombies on L4D2. The only way to take them down is putting a shot into their spine, at which point the entrails flap away to reveal a torn spine. That's far more disturbing than anything I've seen up to date, and it's because that little line between reality and fantasy is crossed. As such, I'm delaying my purchase until I can deal with it.

At no point does Far Cry ever make you feel as though the goons are even human; they're just pixellated targets. MewTwo sets you up at the start to blow holes in real life innocents.

That's where the line is, imho.
MewTwo takes place in real life?

And how is a spine disturbing? "Oh look, a zombie who has probably torn apart at least one helpless innocent. *Blam* OH MY GOD I SHOT HIS SPINE OUT! I'M A MONSTER!"

You want disturbing in L4D2? Look at the spitter's face.
 

Silk_Sk

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Frankly, I'm amazed Prototype hasn't raised any eyebrows either. The words "civilian massacre" just do not do the game justice.
 

silentsentinel

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When I found this article to be a comparison between MW2 and Far Cry 2, I started foaming at the mouth. Then I realized that the comparison was in the context of morality, and the foaming subsided.

I hate Far Cry 2.
 

Tharticus

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Dec 10, 2008
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Hmm... this is a interesting article. Unfortunately, video games has been treading on dark theme territory and showing it too. It sucks that the media portrays most video games as a murder simulator.

I can also remember the controversial game "Six Days in Fallujah" and it was hailed down by massive controversy by people's perceptive. If movies allowed war movies that relate to real events, why not video games? FPS as murder simulators? What a bunch of poppycock.
 

Nmil-ek

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As much as I would like to believe it was just overlooked there may be the undertone of shooting dirt poor black people is not quite as contiverisial for the media pandering as white civilians.
 

Warstratigier

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So simply put don't make a big fuss when something not so big as far cry 2 despite the numerous amoral things is out but then make a world-wide racket out of a game that is worth giving a #@!$ over even if its just one thing. Is it just me, or is there really another side of the coin to these sort of "moralistic" people here?