40k: Anti-Tau Riptide Tactics? Is there even one?

JaceArveduin

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So... The barrier of entry into this stuff is rather high... Think anyone would let me play if I used little army men as proxies? xD

Rather off-topic, but I'm curious *shrug*
 

direkiller

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few options:
get something into close combat with it
1 . Get anyting into close combat with it, 100points of gardsmen will tie it up for the entire game. Low number of attacks and almost always hitting on 5s means even with low Leadership it's very unlikey to make anything run.


2. Run more vehicals. vs a land raider it's will have to novacharge more and use it on the S9 blast. It can't use the S7 3 shot mode, and with the S8 it's unlikely to do anything. Even with Rinos you can march up the bord and kick the shit out of the Tau.

3. Drop pod in Thunder hammer storm shield terminators, 3+ invuln will tank the blast, and can kill it.
Even if you don't go directly after the Riptide with them, they will happily murder everything in the tau army in CC.


If none of them are options you may have to resort to hose rules.
 

L. Declis

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JaceArveduin said:
So... The barrier of entry into this stuff is rather high... Think anyone would let me play if I used little army men as proxies? xD

Rather off-topic, but I'm curious *shrug*
Here is the thing; Warhammer 40k is a somewhat crap game, as far as games go. If you want a small, cheap, well balanced and tight game, there are so many alternatives to consider.

No, you play Warhammer for the spectacle. The look. The background fluff. The game is simply a set of rules that lets you play with your very expensive little men.

As such, using little army men really does drop the ball.

HOWEVER...

If you're playing with friends, I can put down money that ONE of them has a spare army you can borrow and learn with and play with, to see if you like it. If you go into any gaming store, I can nearly promise they will have a demo game kinda thing.

The barrier is high, yes, but there are ways around that. For example, you can pick up a starter set for about £75, and sell half of it to make it about £40 total (and you get the rules and a small, working army). Grab a £25 paint and glue set, and a £30 Army Rulebook, and that's all you NEED to play with friends. You can borrow other things from them while you grow your army slowly and you'll get going in enough time.

But bringing a baggie of those dollar for 50 army men, you can, but you'd be missing the entire point of 40k. You'd be better looking into a small skirmish game like Infinity.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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JaceArveduin said:
So... The barrier of entry into this stuff is rather high... Think anyone would let me play if I used little army men as proxies? xD

Rather off-topic, but I'm curious *shrug*

The barrier is high, yes, but there are ways around that. For example, you can pick up a starter set for about £75, and sell half of it to make it about £40 total (and you get the rules and a small, working army). Grab a £25 paint and glue set, and a £30 Army Rulebook, and that's all you NEED to play with friends. You can borrow other things from them while you grow your army slowly and you'll get going in enough time.
Or, if you want to play as chaos, rather than selling them, you can just paint the loyalist marines up like they just started listening to heavy metal and use them in a chaos army with the chaos models you get, so you basically double the size of your army. Might have to do a couple of "this counts as" regarding the odd weapon (IIRC chaos can't have assault cannons) unless you want to do some converting. Some of the models are very Dark Angels specific, but seeing as a good number of them fell to chaos during the Horus Heresyabsolutely nothing happened at all, you can still justify it fluff wise if that's the sort of thing you care about.

You don't even need a £25 paint set if you want to be a real cheapass. 1 500ml can of Hycote matt black car paint, then a pot of Citadel white, black, boltgun metal (or whatever they call it these days) and red. Bam! Black Legion motherfuckers! Or early Dark Angels.

Also, Ebay.
 

Malty Milk Whistle

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Best way i've dealt with them (as a crons player, so those ap3 pieplates hurt) is to simply wreck the pathfinder squads (or whatever's providing the markerlights) as a first priority, and after that they become a lot less damaging. Still hard to kill, but the absurd amounts of points needed to make a riptide effective kinda hamstrings them. One of my friends (running a bloody ravenguard list, they're the epitome of not-that-good-really) managed to hamstring the local tau player by taking out the small smatterings of pathfinders on turn one (using cheap flamer bike squads or flamering landspeeders) then turn 2~3 rev up board with black knights and landspeeders to kill anything vaguely dangerous ,such as broadsides or the guys crisis commander. He left the Riptide until fairly late in the game, as due to the abundance of cover saves in a biker army (and lack of ability on the Tau's part to remove them without markerlights) it really couldn't do that much.}

EDIT: The thunderwolves have AP2, or is that me being stupid? a buncha frost axes and thundershields should be enough if you take out markerlights.

If I sound like i'm repeating myself with the insistence on taking out the bloody markerlights, is because there's not much more things in 40k that satisfy me more than wrecking those damn blue scouting sods.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Jun 5, 2013
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Okay so some of you have probably wondered what a basic army I use looks like. This is a basic 1000 pt Wolf army. At the local GW we're allowed about 10pts grace over/under.

HQ:
Rune Priest - Mastery Lvl2, Helm of Durfast, Runic Armor, Warlord - 130pts
Rune Priest - Mastery Lvl2, Rune Stave, Runic Armor - 120Pts

Troops:
Grey Hunters - 9 total. 8 extra chainswords, 1 meltagun, Wolf standard. Wolf Pack Leader w/ power fist/combimelta - 294 w/Rhino
-Rhino: Extra Armor, Hunter-Killer Missile - 55pts

Grey Hunters - 9 total. 8 extra chainswords, 1 plasma gun. Wolf Pack Leader w/ power fist/combiplasma -274 w/rhino
-Rhino: Extra Armor, Hunter-Killed Missile - 55pts

Fast Attack:
ThunderWolf Calvary - 3 Total. Pack leader w/ power fist/storm shield. 1 Rider with power sword, 1 Rider with power axe. - 190pts

Grand total: 1008

This whole army was tabled by turn 3. I don't have the list from my friend, but I remember he had bare bones fire warrior squads and a bunch of elites/heavies and path finders with their 36' range markerlights. Also his HQ was a cadre fire blade with basically rocks and sticks.

First turn Stealth Team infiltrated and popped a Rhino with their fusion guns. A hammerhead used marker lights to ignore the heavy cover of the 2nd Rhino and blasted it apart with its rail gun. A 2nd hammer head used its ion blaster(no marker lights, but rolled direct hit) on the 1st Hunter Squad, lost 5 guys and 1 wound on the Priest. The Riptide used its ion blaster to finish the squad off, Priest as well. A broadside used the remaining marker lights to hammer the Thunder wolves, killing 1 and injuring a 2nd.
My turn rolled around, charged up through cover with the Thunder Wolves but not quiet in range for charging the Riptide. Grey Hunter squad and remaining rune priest(warlord) advanced into cover and claiming an objective and took shots at the broadside. Took 1 wound off.
Tau 2nd turn, everything targets the thunder wolves. They're blasted apart entirely.
My 2nd turn comes and using Fury of the Wolf Spirits (Geri), my plasma gun and combi-plasma and bolters, finally destroyed the broadside.
3rd turn Tau, two Hammer Heads and the Riptide destroy my remaining Wolves. Game ends.

And that's a pretty standard game when it comes to the Riptides. Absurd range and fire power for its cost. 5 pt ion blaster, so I'm not entirely sure what everyone means by price heavy. Just 100% completely out of range of anything I have. It was basically a shooting gallery, but as far as I can tell reading blogs/forums, any game with a riptide is a shooting gallery.
 

direkiller

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Zykon TheLich said:
Citadel white, black, boltgun metal (or whatever they call it these days) and red. Bam! Black Legion motherfuckers! Or early Dark Angels.
They are named White Scar, Abaddon Black, Leadbelcher, Wazdakka Red now
.
Because people could not figure out there factions/Leaders color scheem I guess.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart
Daka is atleast nice enough to give a chart for the Crayola esk names now.
 

JaceArveduin

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Zykon TheLich said:
You don't even need a £25 paint set if you want to be a real cheapass. 1 500ml can of Hycote matt black car paint, then a pot of Citadel white, black, boltgun metal (or whatever they call it these days) and red. Bam! Black Legion motherfuckers! Or early Dark Angels.

Also, Ebay.
L. Declis said:
But bringing a baggie of those dollar for 50 army men, you can, but you'd be missing the entire point of 40k. You'd be better looking into a small skirmish game like Infinity.
Thanks for the replies! The main thing is that I spend most of my hobby money on Magic, and I don't actually know anyone that plays 40K...

I also really suck at arts n craft. Badly. This was more of a test to see if the reaction is a "would they glare at me until I leave" kinda thing. Along with being inspired by a story I heard about some guy making his 40K proxies MLP figurines. God that thread was a riot, lol
 

xaszatm

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Silentpony said:
Okay so some of you have probably wondered what a basic army I use looks like. This is a basic 1000 pt Wolf army. At the local GW we're allowed about 10pts grace over/under.

HQ:
Rune Priest - Mastery Lvl2, Helm of Durfast, Runic Armor, Warlord - 130pts
Rune Priest - Mastery Lvl2, Rune Stave, Runic Armor - 120Pts

Troops:
Grey Hunters - 9 total. 8 extra chainswords, 1 meltagun, Wolf standard. Wolf Pack Leader w/ power fist/combimelta - 294 w/Rhino
-Rhino: Extra Armor, Hunter-Killer Missile - 55pts

Grey Hunters - 9 total. 8 extra chainswords, 1 plasma gun. Wolf Pack Leader w/ power fist/combiplasma -274 w/rhino
-Rhino: Extra Armor, Hunter-Killed Missile - 55pts

Fast Attack:
ThunderWolf Calvary - 3 Total. Pack leader w/ power fist/storm shield. 1 Rider with power sword, 1 Rider with power axe. - 190pts

Grand total: 1008

This whole army was tabled by turn 3. I don't have the list from my friend, but I remember he had bare bones fire warrior squads and a bunch of elites/heavies and path finders with their 36' range markerlights. Also his HQ was a cadre fire blade with basically rocks and sticks.

First turn Stealth Team infiltrated and popped a Rhino with their fusion guns. A hammerhead used marker lights to ignore the heavy cover of the 2nd Rhino and blasted it apart with its rail gun. A 2nd hammer head used its ion blaster(no marker lights, but rolled direct hit) on the 1st Hunter Squad, lost 5 guys and 1 wound on the Priest. The Riptide used its ion blaster to finish the squad off, Priest as well. A broadside used the remaining marker lights to hammer the Thunder wolves, killing 1 and injuring a 2nd.
My turn rolled around, charged up through cover with the Thunder Wolves but not quiet in range for charging the Riptide. Grey Hunter squad and remaining rune priest(warlord) advanced into cover and claiming an objective and took shots at the broadside. Took 1 wound off.
Tau 2nd turn, everything targets the thunder wolves. They're blasted apart entirely.
My 2nd turn comes and using Fury of the Wolf Spirits (Geri), my plasma gun and combi-plasma and bolters, finally destroyed the broadside.
3rd turn Tau, two Hammer Heads and the Riptide destroy my remaining Wolves. Game ends.

And that's a pretty standard game when it comes to the Riptides. Absurd range and fire power for its cost. 5 pt ion blaster, so I'm not entirely sure what everyone means by price heavy. Just 100% completely out of range of anything I have. It was basically a shooting gallery, but as far as I can tell reading blogs/forums, any game with a riptide is a shooting gallery.
Oh, that's why you're losing. That army list really sucks. You made Assault-Focused army in an era where Shooting Trumps Assault and you don't have enough units to make the losses you will incur not matter. Furthermore, you are placing far too much trust on your troops, who will lose to any non-troop unit. Having only three units on the battlefield is a death sentence. Yes, any army with a Riptide is a shooting gallery but usually there are enough threats to make a Riptide have to choose targets. Here? He has more units than yours and can just fire where he pleases. More units will usually trump having better equipped ones.

Plus, you're playing 1000 points. Playing that low makes the already unbalanced game even more so.

Reduce your troops to 5 each and get rid of the extra chainswords. Grey Hunters are useless buffed for combat against any real assault army and your troops should be able to tie up tie unit asides from the Riptide with ease. Also, get rid of extra armour on your Rhinos, you're far more likely to be Hull Pointed to death than need to roll for a immobilized fix. Put Dozer Blades instead or not given how few points you have to work with. Hunter-Killer Missiles I would not recommend as they have only one use and there is no situation where they will be of much use. Maybe if you have the spare points, but I'd still not recommend it. I'd also change your Pack Leader, there is no reason why he should be carrying a Power Fist and a Combi-Plasma

Take only 1 Rune Priest. You do not have enough units on the table right now and you're going against an army that excels against low armor saves but low wounds. You need more units, not a few buffed ones. They have enough fire power to bypass any buff you give.

Ax the Thunderwolf Cavalry. The Thunderwolf Cavalry is pretty useless in most armies but here it's just a giant point sink. None of your wolves are going to be able to face your opponents in time. Especially against the Tau. At this low points level, they are useless against the Tau and most other things for that matter.

At this point, I have eliminated over half of your points. Here a some better options for you to replace those points.

HQ: Ax both Rune Priests and make a Wolf Lord Kill Model. A Wolf Lord on a bike with a Power Fist and a Storm Shield costs only 165 points and against the Riptide will utterly destroy it. This is only if you really want a unit solely dedicated for killing the Riptide but it's still an option should you wish to take it.

Troops: Instead of what you have, take either 5 Blood Claws or 5 Grey Hunters with the following setup: 2 normal marines, 1 meltagun marine, 1 power weapon marine, 1 Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta and Power Sword, one Rhino with Dozer Blades. The total comes up with 160 points for the Blood Claws or 170 points for the Grey Hunters. The only difference between the two units is that Grey Hunters have BS and WS 4 while Blood Claws are BS and WS 3 so it's up to you to decide which unit is better

Elites: Take 10 Wolf Scouts, give everyone Sniper Rifles. This costs 150 points. Don't bother with Camo Cloaks as pathfinders will make it a waste of points. After Infiltrating and Scouting, Snipe any unit you don't like. It's probably either going to be heavily damaged, leaving it easy fodder for the rest or straight up kill it. This unit's gonna die the next enemy turn so either have multiple Scouts or pray you get the first turn. A gamble, to be sure, but it is satisfying to pull off.

Elites #2: 3 Wolf Guard Terminators, equipped with a Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer. 144 points. It's another gamble so take more than one unit of this or pray to the gods your Shield holds through. Don't use these against Braodsides because Overwatch will destroy the Terminators, but any other unit taken to close combat by these guys will crumble.

Fast Attack #1: Stormwolf with twin-linked multi-meltas. 235 Points. Take this. Now laugh at the Tau as they struggle to kill this thing. As long as the Broadsides are attacked, this one unit will rain destruction on your enemies. This also can be taken as a dedicated transport for most units, though unless you have enough units on the battlefield, I'd take it by itself.

Fast Attack #2: Fenrisian Wolves. At 8 points each, use quantity over quality here. Having three charging units forces the Tau to focus fire on these Wolves over your other units because they can tie the units up in close combat. Use these as a screen so that your actual Assault units arrive unscathed.

Fast Attack #3: Stormfang Gunship with Two twin-linked multi-meltas. 240 points. See Stormwolf above. Note that this is a Fast Attack slot only and cannot be used as a dedicated transport.

Heavy Support #1: Long Fangs. 4 Long Fangs with Lascannons and 1 Long Fang Ancient. 155 Points. The Tau don't have units where you need a blast weapon. Take Lascannons and use them to snipe the enemy units.

Heavy Support #2: Predator. Three Lascannons. 140 Points. Another option to take in order to snipe the Tau's low armoured units.

With these options, you should easily have 5-7 units on the battlefield, all of which can take on the Tau on more even turns. Your main weakness was that you had far too few units on the battlefield, even considering that you are a Space Marine list. With this, you should have a better time against the Tau.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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So, with what I just said, here's a better army against the Tau and most other armies in genearl

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armour. Equipped with a Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, and Melta Bombs 135 Points

Troops: 2 5-Man Blood Claws Units. 2 Normal, 1 Power Weapon, 1 Meltagun, 1 Wolf Leader with Combi-Melta and Power Weapon on Rhino with Dozer Blade. 160 Points each

Elites: 3 Wolf Guard Terminators. Each with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. 144 Points.

Fast Attack: 3 5-Wolf Fenrisian Wolves units. 40 Points each

Heavy Support: 2 Predators. Each with 3 Lascannons. 140 points each.

Your total comes to 999 points. You also have 8 units on the field. (HQ goes with the other terminators). You could ax the Wolves and a Predator for a Storm Wolf as well but that would lower the amount of units you have on-field. But this is a good starting point for you. Yes, you will need to buy more units, but you simply have too few units for your army to be of any use. Either you need to shrink the points limit further to 500-750 points so you don't get overwhelmed or buy more units.

EDIT: Another option for you

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armour. Equipped with a Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, and Melta Bombs 135 Points

Troops: 2 5-Man Blood Claws Units. 3 Normal, 1 Meltagun, 1 Wolf Leader with Combi-Melta, Rhino with Dozer Blade. 130 Points each

Elites: 3 Wolf Guard Terminators. Each with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. 144 Points.

Fast Attack: 2 5-Man Skyclaws. 2 Melta Guns. 95 Points each

Heavy Support: 2 Predators. Each with 3 Lascannons. 140 points each.

Total comes to 1009 Points, within the ten-point limit. Blood Claws and Predators can take most units on in a fire fight. With 4 units, interceptor won't be as much as a problem.

Alternatively, if you use drop pods, get them as close as you can to the Riptide. You don't have to worry about mishapping as your Drop Pod automatically move your unit to a safe location. His Large blast is useless as he will hit himself and he's not allowed to do that in the rules.
 

renegade7

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With 1000 point games, there's going to be a huge imbalance in favor of high-cost units. Try upping that to 2500 points so you can field more well-rounded armies.

That said, as an Ork player, I find that avoiding them really is the best I can do until I can get my Goffs into close combat with the other Tau units. You only need to keep comparatively few Ork boyz alive before they get into melee with Tau, and at that point it can't shoot at them. 30 boyz per unit with decent spacing between models to avoid that AP2 large blast.

I've heard range is a good strategy. Space Marines can take Imperial Guard units, right? Maybe a Basilisk with a hunter-killer missile.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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JaceArveduin said:
Thanks for the replies! The main thing is that I spend most of my hobby money on Magic, and I don't actually know anyone that plays 40K...

I also really suck at arts n craft. Badly. This was more of a test to see if the reaction is a "would they glare at me until I leave" kinda thing. Along with being inspired by a story I heard about some guy making his 40K proxies MLP figurines. God that thread was a riot, lol
I can pretty much guarantee that's a "yes". GW won't let you use non GW models in store. They'll loan you a store army once or twice, but after that you'd better be buying something.
 

Dakkagor

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Yeah, have to agree with xaszatm, that army list sucks balls. The problem with small points games is that it condenses the games worst problems and highlights them, while diluting some of the most effective treatments to those problems. I would suggest:

1: stop playing at GW stores. No, seriously, just stop doing it. Go found your own games club at a local pub/youth centre whatever, or find one that is already operating. Play on your kitchen table if you have to. This will allow you to play bigger games, with better terrain. also, playing at a pub allows you to drink alcohol, which vastly improves the playing experience.

2: as alluded to, Terrain is key. You should cover a table in abut 25% terrain MINIMUM that blocks line of sight: this severely hampers static gunline armies and gives you something to hide behind. This isn't possible at a GW store, because they only give you two or three bits of terrain that at best cover 15%-20% of the table.

3: play 2k rather than 1k. This gives you more in your toolbox to deal with that big annoying bastard.

4: Tau hate land raiders. The current dex lacks long range antitank, (which, as a veteran of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th editions, just feels weird to say) and seventh means you need at least str9 AP2 to stop one in its tracks. If he's using Riptides, hes not sinking points into crisis teams packed with melta, which can threaten your tanks.


My new purchase recommendations 1:

My solution would be to play 2000pts, and pack a squad of wolfguard terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields into a Raider. Hare up field, pile out, and smash its kneecaps with glowy doom hammers.

My new purchase recommendations 2:

My other solution would be to play 2000pts, and ally in the following units from the main marine dex: 1 librarian, 1 full sized squad of stern-guard, (with as many combi-gravs as you can afford), with a rhino, one min size squad of scouts with bolters, one whirlwind.

Have The librarian cast invisibility on the squad as they pile out of the rhino, (can only be shot at bs1 as per snap shot, completely nullifying the ion cannon), then double tap the riptide. Use the combi-gravs to pile on wounds, and the hellfire rounds on the basic bolter guys to wound on a 2+ and force multiple armour saves. The scouts are for sitting on objectives in your back field, well out of harms way, and the whirlwind is for getting rid of pathfinders dug into cover. With the Emperors grace and a bit of luck, you can shoot the damn thing clean of the table in one go.

For added fluff hilarity, paint the entire allied force in DEATHWATCH colours:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/e/e8/829_large.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110328151725
 

JaceArveduin

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Zykon TheLich said:
I can pretty much guarantee that's a "yes". GW won't let you use non GW models in store. They'll loan you a store army once or twice, but after that you'd better be buying something.
The closest actual GW store is at least an hour away, so I can't say I'm too worried about that. Though if I ever did somehow manage to find a group that actually played, I probably would ask if I could use one of those army men armies and see how I'd do painting them up. I mean, I'd rather learn to paint on something that costs four for a dollar than one for fifty.

Thanks for the replies!
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Jun 5, 2013
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xaszatm said:
You're lists are kinda' confusing me. It seems like you're doubling down on easily killed units? I guess for canon fodder? But Tau are exceptionally good at killing units at range, and you'll never out shoot Tau. It seems like a lot of those units can be dropped as fairly useless. I mean you're not taking the 2nd mandatory HQ the Wolf codex requires to be a Bound Army, so you won't be capturing or contesting objectives any time soon. So why bother with the Troops at all? 5 Blood Claws or Grey Hunters will be killed in a single turn, basically giving your opponent a VP at a cost of 160pts to you. Also 5 Blood Claws? I've played Wolves a long time. Blood Claws are utterly useless in anything less than 10+ packs.
Same with the Fenrisian Wolves. On the table, they're basically Grots without the firepower. Another easily kill for a single fire warrior squad.
And to be fair, I never really considered the Wolf Scouts. I'm so used to them being too pricey and dying before they kill a single model, much less a whole unit.
I do like the idea of the StormWolf and StormFang gunships. And even the Predators, even if those will only get a single shooting phase at best before a rail-rifle takes it apart.
Why not just do all StormWolf gunships with thunder hammer/storm shield terminators? Maybe throw in a wolf priest or wolf guard battle leader?
From what I've seen of the Tau and their easily access to AP2 weapons, anything less than terminators with storm shields is a complete waste. Scouts, Marines, anything! All seem fairly useless as the Tau have range and firepower on you basically the whole time.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Silentpony said:
xaszatm said:
You're lists are kinda' confusing me. It seems like you're doubling down on easily killed units? I guess for canon fodder? But Tau are exceptionally good at killing units at range, and you'll never out shoot Tau. It seems like a lot of those units can be dropped as fairly useless. I mean you're not taking the 2nd mandatory HQ the Wolf codex requires to be a Bound Army, so you won't be capturing or contesting objectives any time soon. So why bother with the Troops at all? 5 Blood Claws or Grey Hunters will be killed in a single turn, basically giving your opponent a VP at a cost of 160pts to you. Also 5 Blood Claws? I've played Wolves a long time. Blood Claws are utterly useless in anything less than 10+ packs.
Same with the Fenrisian Wolves. On the table, they're basically Grots without the firepower. Another easily kill for a single fire warrior squad.
And to be fair, I never really considered the Wolf Scouts. I'm so used to them being too pricey and dying before they kill a single model, much less a whole unit.
I do like the idea of the StormWolf and StormFang gunships. And even the Predators, even if those will only get a single shooting phase at best before a rail-rifle takes it apart.
Why not just do all StormWolf gunships with thunder hammer/storm shield terminators? Maybe throw in a wolf priest or wolf guard battle leader?
From what I've seen of the Tau and their easily access to AP2 weapons, anything less than terminators with storm shields is a complete waste. Scouts, Marines, anything! All seem fairly useless as the Tau have range and firepower on you basically the whole time.
You're not required to use the Space Wolves Detachment. It's an option to replace the Primary Detachment, sure, but you can still use it. The Space Wolves Detachment isn't going to be useful in 1000 point games, especially if you only have 3 units on the field. So just use the Primary Detachment so you can get rid of the extra required HQ.

I don't play Space Wolves so I was just throwing out suggestions. But I do face Marines armies and the usual go to is either vehicle span (which reduces the number of useful units for the Tau, especially if you can overwhelm them by having more vehicles than they have units) or Deep Strike Span (Interceptor doesn't matter much when there are 5 units dropping at a time). Yes, there shooting is powerful but they aren't unbeatable. At least try having more units and you will have an easier time.
 

Cerberus_2.0

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piscian said:
Paragon Fury said:
There is no defeating the Tau. Join us, and serve the Greater Good.
The alien is not intrinsically evil.
Do not hate him. Pity him his ignorance.
Seek to understand his differences
And acquaint him with his inadequacies.
Only then will he accept his place
in the Greater Good.
- Sio't meditation

Behold the disheveled Tau sympathizer. Despise him!

-The imperial infantryman's uplifting primer, Damocles Gulf Edition.

I have another suggestion that i'd think would really help you out in improving your game.

Swap armies.

Play a game or few against each other playing each other's armies. As the imperial infantryman's uplifting primer decree's, knowing the foe is a vital component to beating them. Perhaps the best way to do so is through playing their army. You'll get an intimate understanding of how the Tau and the riptide work. It's strengths and weaknesses and how it fit's into the Tau strategy.

You'll also gain knowledge of yourself. playing with your opponents army forces you to examine your own army for weaknesses to exploit, and learning how to best your army for yourself will bring into focus what your army list lacks. Having an opponent play your army can also be illuminating, as you might find they'll be able to use what you have to better effect.


The point about having a target rich environment is spot on. Unless you are playing the one killpoints mission, You shouldn't obsess over missing out to the first blood VP. It's a single point in games where playing the objectives usually net you 3VP.

And forcing your opponent to pick targets is crucial when it comes to beating them. Sure a unit of Fenrisan wolves don't look intimidating on paper, but the fact that they can reach melee distance quickly means that at some point they'll need to be delt with. And by softening his infantry with longfangs, wolf scouts, Long range weapons and so on, You'll force him to dedicate more resources to taking them out. The threat of the fenrisan wolves comes in denying him his gunline.

More enemies to fight means more are likely to survive when your opponent tries focusing down on key targets.

I also have a purchase suggesting I can make for you. Whirlwind. 48" range that doesn't need LOD (as it's ordinance barrage) and It's two firing modes are perfect counters to his mainstay infantry. S4 Ap5 large blast that ignores cover for the 5+ armoured pathfinders. And S5 Ap4 for the fire warriors. Armour is only 11 all round as a downside, but you can just be clever and hide in cover for the save or just block the line of sight entirely. and it can stay out of markerlight range.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
Okay I know its kinda old, but I just tried killing the Riptide again. I used ThunderWolves. Of the 4 that I fielded, only 1 survived long enough to get the charge. But he DID get that charge, armed with a power sword and bolt pistol. So I got 6 solid hits, 6 solid wounds and then guess what? 2+ armor. Saved them all. Then the Riptide used a single Smash hit(S10, AP2) to just flatten out my ThunderWolf.

Now ThunderWolves are the preeminent Space Wolf fast attack close combat monster. And everyone is saying the Riptide is terrible at close combat. You guys realize its a Monstrous Creature with Smash, right? I've read other forums and apparently other guys lose Riptides left and right, all the time, every game.

So I gotta ask, what are those guys doing wrong? From my experience vs. what people say should happen, I'm picking up on that the other people must be bad players. I've played maybe 10 matches against Riptides, and I've never once even wounded one, let alone kill it. I know I've said this before, but their high wound, high strength, super mobile, monstrous creature, 2+/5++ killing machine. It seems pretty idiot prof.