127: High-Def Battleground

[Kyle Orland]

High-Def Battleground

"The slow performance has led some to question how invested Microsoft really is in the high-definition disc battle. 'I think the player was done to show a commitment to HD DVD, but it isn't really strategic to the Xbox, because you can't play games off it,' Enderle said. 'The HD DVD player is a one-time sale of a piece of hardware. It's kind of like selling a joystick - they like selling joysticks, but if they had their druthers they'd rather sell a couple games, because that's pure profit.'"

Kyle Orland reports from the movie format front.


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[MichaelAB]

I think that the HD DVD format is going to win out, eventually. Mainly because the average person is stupid. "I have a HDTV, so I must need a HD DVD player. Give me one of those." I have found that betting on quality does not beat betting on stupid. Betamax and 8 tracks were higher quality formats, but the market chose the other option.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Could have more stats and more info on perceived issues concerning disc space and gaming.

Blu Ray/HDVD
BR is having a interesting time Sony has sold off its animation studio and sold off the BD+ protection system to Macro vision which is probably a good thing looking at their record of moronic DRM, HDVD has sold alil over 700K players and maintains a solid but meek (40% of sales) on the movie market, BR has sold alil over 2.5M players counting the PS3 2M of unit sales which only half of which can be counted as a full movie player but even so they are only selling 2 to 1 of movies and now a 3 to 1 for the holidays which is kind of low for the number of players sold, even so there is no end in sight there are rumors of Warner jumping to BR but it would take 2 or 3 large studios jumping to put the death nails in either format.

With HDVD gaining a 51GB disc that should run on 80% of all players size is no longer a issues since Sony is no longer heading BD+ one doesn?t have to worry about Sony mishandling the protection so now size and OTT DRM is a non issue it now comes down to price and word of mouth.

And yes BR dose have 100GB, 200GB and higher disc capacities but these have not left the labs and are faced with tons of issues to make it a viable consumer disc by the time they are done getting these ready for the consumer market something else will come along better and cheaper.

At first I loved BR for the space but not at the price they want, HDVD seems to have a clearer setup going but as things are now ne is better off getting a 700$ dual format player.

Sources
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12069.cfm
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12012.cfm
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/nielsen-videoscan-high-def-market-share-for-week-ending-december/
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360
MS seems to be wanting to release a 360 with HDVD in it, and in 2-4 years I can see every 360 having one because the 360 is having space issues not only on its locked HDD but disc space as well, hopefully by then MS will have its act together and have the 360 fixed it still have drive and hardware issues.
For me a new premium is not worth more than 300$ because of the issues the 360 has, get my a unit with 65NM GPU and CPU and a HDVD drive and 120GB HDD and I will be happy to pay 400 for it.

HD DVD add-ons are going cheaper than 179
http://www.google.com/products?q=MICROSOFT+XBOX+360+HD+DVD+-cover+-skin+-face+-pack+-wire&btnG=Search&hl=en&show=dd&scoring=p&brand=microsoft&lnk=brsugg

The main problem with the PS3 is direction they made it as the ultimate game/media system yet have had to hack features and screw around because they did not have a clear foresight on price, for the PS3 it would have been better to launch 1 unit at 400$ the 60GB would have done well at 400 and not the ridicules 599 price tag they set, the same can be said now only they have launched a lite PS3 thoroughly raped by mindless suits who have dishonored and damaged the brand, because of all the back tracking and dcking around I will not spend more than 300 on a PS3, if I can find a 60GB unit I would go as high as 400.

 

[FunkyJ]

Gizmodo have had quite a few stories on the HD DVD lately, including this one where they discuss MS being much more involved in the format than is described here...

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2007/12/the_state_of_hd_dvd.html

 

[Copter400]

I just don't care about Blu-Ray or HD DVD. I don't have the bio-mechanical eyes neccesary to tell the difference between a plasma screen and the TV I'm using now.

 

[Virgil]

I think that the HD DVD format is going to win out, eventually. Mainly because the average person is stupid.

While Blu-Ray does have technological advantages, particularly in capacity, it's not the outright superior format otherwise (unlike Betamax). Either format provides the same A/V quality as the other, mastering quality being equal, making technical comparisons of the physical media about as useful to the average end user as comparing horsepower between a Lamborghini and Ferrari.

I find Blu-Ray less appealing as a consumer product because of their fractured standard and the additional layer of DRM they've added over HD-DVD. I'd go for it as a storage product over HD-DVD though.

At first I loved BR for the space but not at the price they want, HDVD seems to have a clearer setup going but as things are now ne is better off getting a 700$ dual format player.

Honestly, given the exorbitant price required for a dual-format player, at this point I'd say you're still better off waiting, picking just one (based on what you own and/or what movies you want), or buying one of each. Having a $700 player break would not only cost more to replace, you'd be down two media libraries instead of just one.

I just don't care about Blu-Ray or HD DVD. I don't have the bio-mechanical eyes neccesary to tell the difference between a plasma screen and the TV I'm using now.

Based on my experience with the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive (it was a gift), although there is definitely a difference in image quality, I've actually found that the audio is the biggest beneficiary of upgrading. I'm sure Blu-Ray is similar, as they have virtually the same A/V quality. That and the general user experience, which is much more standardized (and better performing) than that of DVDs.

I would only buy an HD-DVD for an action/effects or similarly epic movie though, DVDs are just too cost-efficient otherwise.

 

[John Funk]

DVD -> HD Format is hardly the jump VHS -> DVD was, and I think the "format war" really reflects that. The average mass consumer simply doesn't care.

Compared to VHS, DVD offered a huge wealth of options in addition to superior picture quality. Automatic scene skip, bonus content, different audio tracks / subtitle options, no rewinding involved... more than just being prettier, it was hugely more convenient. For the most part, HD formats simply offer a nicer picture.

Plus, you could still watch DVDs on an older television set; all you needed was a cheap little gadget that would convert the ... three color-coded cable... signal into a, uh, screwy plug signal (the names of which escape me at the moment). I used to work at a high-volume Gamestop in a lower income area, and we had people asking us for those all the time. With that, all you needed was a DVD player and you were in business.

Not only are HD formats / players more expensive, you need a completely new TV to really appreciate them, and seeing as most HDTVs aren't exactly cheap, that's another hurdle. Super Mario Galaxy looked fine on my friend's small, cheap TV. Transformers in HD wouldn't.

HD requires a much bigger and costlier commitment than DVD did, and that's why I really can't see this format war being all that decisive in this round of console gaming except amongst the early adopter techie crowd and those with the money to burn.

 

[Arbre]

50 Gb is enough.

And it should be considered, for devs, that instead of spending millions in teams of 30 artists, they may also look out for procedural texturing technologies, like ProFX [http://www.profxengine.com], which can fill up most of your decors with good enough looking textures, full of details [http://www.profxengine.com/index.php?PAGE=GALLERY.RENDERS].
See, that engine was used to provide Unreal Engine 3 level of detail for a game that ended being less than 50 Mb for Live Arcade. The texture data itself only represented 280 Kb in Roboblitz.
It's a middleware. How much do you think it can really cost, notably in light of those devlopment budgets which reach $10-15 million?