47% of Australian Gamers Are Female

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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47% of Australian Gamers Are Female


The survey also pegs the average age of Australian gamers at 32 years old.

The Interactive Games and Entertainment Association (IGEA) in Australia recently ran a survey of 1220 households, and 3398 individuals about gaming, and has discovered some information about Australia's gaming habits. Most interestingly is the fact that despite the game-playing market traditionally being viewed as one dominated by men, 47% of survey participants who classified themselves as "gamers" were female.

Further statistics show that 65% of Australians play games regularly, and the average age of those gamers is 32, killing yet another myth that "video games are for children." In fact, only 20% of people who called themselves gamers were in the 1-15 year-old age group.

As for what games these gamers are playing, the most popular choice was "social network games" (such as Facebook's Farmville) at 24%, followed by "online role-playing games" (such as Blizzard's World of Warcraft) at 15%. Gamers typically play video games every day for around an hour.

As for gaming families, gaming Mums are more likely to play on a PC, while gaming Dads are more likely to break out the Xbox or PlayStation. 86% of parents who game, game with their children.

And as for why these gamers game, "fun," was the top reason for PC and console gamers, "passing time," for mobile gamers, "keeping the mind active" for older adult gamers and "social interaction" for yonger adult gamers.

Be sure to check out the full list of statistics here [http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Digital-Australia-2014-Key-Findings.pdf].

What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.

After all, I drive a car, but i'm the furthest from what you would call a "car enthusiast."

Source: Digital Australia [http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Digital-Australia-2014-Key-Findings.pdf]

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marurder

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Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
This. This is exactly the problem with 'gamers' that feel they are the 'real' gamers. (I refer to the OP). I think it is a good thing that people feel it socially acceptable to refer to themselves as gamers whether the OP's attitude may accept it or not. I have mentioned in earlier posts before that some 'gamers' (those that may subscribe strongly to the 'culture' are a little phobic or distrustful of newcomers).

By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.

I mean, America likes dividing itself up more and more and that leads to various forms of media and culture to be attacked by other interest groups vying for power. Just look at FOX. But by making gaming a household value (fun) it become mainstream and therefor acceptable. You may want to attack the report for not differentiating between 'hardcore' gamer and someone that plays games. But I think that is just divisive.

This report is good as it can be used to help propel and shape better laws (classification) and assist budding developers to make more games for markets (globally even) that haven't been tapped that much.
 

Legion

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marurder said:
Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
This. This is exactly the problem with 'gamers' that feel they are the 'real' gamers. (I refer to the OP). I think it is a good thing that people feel it socially acceptable to refer to themselves as gamers whether the OP's attitude may accept it or not. I have mentioned in earlier posts before that some 'gamers' (those that may subscribe strongly to the 'culture' are a little phobic or distrustful of newcomers).

By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.

I mean, America likes dividing itself up more and more and that leads to various forms of media and culture to be attacked by other interest groups vying for power. Just look at FOX. But by making gaming a household value (fun) it become mainstream and therefor acceptable. You may want to attack the report for not differentiating between 'hardcore' gamer and someone that plays games. But I think that is just divisive.

This report is good as it can be used to help propel and shape better laws (classification) and assist budding developers to make more games for markets (globally even) that haven't been tapped that much.
Except it can't because it is far too vague.

Most gamers are 32 years old. That means nothing if you don't know what kinds of games they are playing. For a triple A developer whose experience is in first person shooters, if those 32 year olds are only playing Bejewelled, then the report is absolutely worthless.

The need to "divide" is so that the statistics have enough detail to actually provide data to work off of. Game development is itself divided. Studios usually focus on only a couple of genres, they don't all of them. So they need to know who is playing their kind to determine who to aim it at.

For triple A developers to start aiming towards other markets than heterosexual, Caucasian males, they need to specifically see the kind of percentage of people (age/sex/ethnicity) who are playing the kind of games that they make.

If 81% of gamers were Indian 81 year old Grandmothers playing Candy Crush, that'd mean nothing for a company such as Activision who mostly create first person shooters on consoles, when trying to determine who to market their games for.

It works the other way around of course. Phone games are not aimed at the typical players of COD or WOW, because those are generally speaking not the kind of people who make up the majority of their current consumer base.

To use an example most people will know of. Take MLP for instance. The fact of the matter is that a large amount of people watching it are adult males. But how many of those adult males are the kind who will go out and by the merchandise or watch it on television when it airs?

By not looking into the specifics of how much they are into it, and simply going "Well most viewers are adult males" the logical response would be to start aiming the show at those adult males.

Which doesn't make any sense at all.

From a social perspective, yes, the whole hardcore/casual thing is rather pointless. But from a development point, it is essential to know who is playing what, why, how and how much.

The industry do not see gaming the same way we do. A lot of people often seem to forget that. Their bottom line is money and who will give them the most. So it doesn't matter who plays the most games, it's who will play their games the most.
 

Drummodino

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Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.

Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
 

josemlopes

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marurder said:
Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
I think it has more to do with target audiences, like from those 47% how many of them play from an Xbox/PS3/PC (not facebook)? If you develop facebook games you wont target the 30 year old male audience by doing a game they like (open world RPG for example) and if you do Xbox/PS3/PC games you arent going to do a game that targets the people that mostly only play on facebook or cellphone.

So for what this is trying to show it does matter a lot what these people are actually playing.
 

Adzma

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Drummodino said:
Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
Bingo. If you want to see what the demographics are for Australian women who fit into the "hardcore" category would be, just go to PAX. Last year it was about a 90% male to 10% female ratio.
 

Aerosteam

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What exactly was this survey meant to do? All I got from it was lots of people who aren't young males play social network and mobile games, with my response being "no shit".
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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"Gamers" is an umbrella term meaning anyone who plays (computer) games. Like any genus, there are species; Casual, hardcore, etc.

People who play Farmville a few minutes everyday have the right to call themselves a gamer as much as someone who plays Halo for 8 hours.
 

Steven Bogos

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what i took away from this is that 2/3rds of the population play games and its not limited to one gender and that it tends to be a family thing when the parents are gamers. thats awesome news. sure certain games are going to appeal more to males, you dont find many femles playing 80's style, counter based tactical wargames on the pc but in the end it doesnt matter.
 

Kahani

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Steven Bogos said:
killing yet another myth
I don't think anything here can really be described as "killing a myth", given that the results are exactly the same as every other survey that has been done on the subject.
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp
http://www.esrb.org/about/video-game-industry-statistics.jsp

As for who counts as a "gamer", it depends very much on why you're interested in the question. Obviously if you're trying to market "Blooddeath 12: The Shootening", you're not going to care about the kind of people who only play Facebook cow-clickers. But if you're more interested in simply knowing who might be part of the potential audience for games in general, it's quite useful to know that the audience is, in fact, pretty much everyone. While no game is ever going to appeal to everyone, the more it's reinforced that games are not only played by teenage boys, the more likely people who aren't teenage boys are to have games made for them.
 

Karadalis

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See the problem with all this is that 47 % might sound impressive at first... but if a good chunk of these 47% consists of women playing facebook games and mobile games then there is still no female market for tripple A games.

Thats the reason why male protagonists are so abundant, because tripple A titles are aparantly mostly bought by the male audience. Mind you thats just a theory but it would explain why female protagonists never really cought on in the big budget games market.

The publishers do know their audiences very well, to well perhaps... and we all know how afraid the big publishers are with taking risks. But atleast it explains their train of thought.

They are not mysoginistic or sexist because they have an agenda... they are chicken shits that dont want to risk alienating their rather fickle core audience from wich they know will definatly buy their games if they pander to them.
 

Galen Marek

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Just because they don't play triple A games doesn't mean they aren't a gamer.
This data is actually pretty valuable to Triple A publishers. It tells them to change their business model and target audience and where they produce their games, which they are doing. Go figure.
 

Karadalis

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Galen Marek said:
Just because they don't play triple A games doesn't mean they aren't a gamer.
This data is actually pretty valuable to Triple A publishers. It tells them to change their business model and target audience and where they produce their games, which they are doing. Go figure.
A) No it doesnt mean they arent gamers, it just means they have a different taste.

B) Big publishers allready have entire divisions targeting the facebook games and mobile games market. How do you think the latest iteration of Dungeon keeper came to be? Yeah... thats what you get when big publishers target new markets... lives great aint it?

C) Point B doesnt mean that suddenly they will abandone the "traditional" triple A market. EA is not going to give up Bioware in leu for the facebook generation. On the other hand its unrealistic to ask for more female centric tripple A titles when most female gamers arent necesary interested in tripple A games.

A statistic of the % of female gamers who are invested in the big budged games market would be much more helpfull then such a generalized number that encompasses everything from the soccer mom playing Wii sports to the IT girl playing flappy bird on her mobile.
 

Steven Bogos

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24% of gamers play social network games (i.e. Facebook games). Vast majority, say 20% of that 24%, are almost certainly female. So 20% of the total percentage of 'gamers' are female and playing Farmville.

Combine this with the '47% female gamers' statistic.

I'll willing to bet that out of that 47% female gamers, a significant amount are extreme-casual i.e. consider themselves gamers because they play Angry Birds. It's not outlandish to presume that 20% of them are playing what gamers wouldn't even consider to be real games.

That leaves an actual 27% to be playing what are considered actual games, and I'd bet quite a lot of those are very casual in the manner in which they play (i.e. 1 hour every weekend of Zelda or whatever). Again, not outlandish to consider than 10% or so probably don't game seriously in any way.

Which leaves us with 17% of this 47% being actual gamers in this sense:



Which is about what I figured. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can tell you that half the gaming population is not female.

Of course, you can apply the same methodology to male gamers, but I think in the case of men, most of them play more serious games than Farmville.
 

OldNewNewOld

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marurder said:
Because the people who play smartphone games aren't even similar to the people who buy games for their consoles or PC?
Because they like different things and if developer tried to get them on board they would have to completely ruin the games for the other? Because those people are the reason why we got Dungeon Keeper mobile and that it has mostly 5 star reviews?

And most importantly, this is bad because people will use this as an argument why developer should change the current games to pander to the non-existing consumer base.

Whether you like it or not, there is a huge difference between real gamer and those who occasionally play a smartphone game.
Or are you telling me that a person who buy a post stamp once in the blue moon to send a letter is a stamp collector? Someone who watches a movie on TV once every few weeks is a moviegoer? Someone who read 3 books in their life is a bookworm? Someone who took a photography with his phone is a photographer? I'm not a cook for making myself a sandwich, nor am I a gourmand for eating breakfast, launch and dinner.

There is a huge difference between people who take a hobby seriously and people who do it once every now and then. The industry should be well aware of those people and they should know that they shouldn't give up on the other, more serious consumer base just to get few more bux because they will lose the other.

They play farmvile? Good for them. But don't come telling me who game X should change because "47% of all gamer are females". The statistic is fundamentally flawed. Or are you telling me that 100% of all people are gourmands?
 
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In fact, only 20% of people who called themselves gamers were in the 1-15 year-old age group.
I really have to wonder how many 1 year olds self identify as gamers? And how do the people taking the survey translate? Parents around the world would love to be let in on that little secret, I'm sure.
 

Erttheking

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BiH-Kira said:
marurder said:
Because those people are the reason why we got Dungeon Keeper mobile and that it has mostly 5 star reviews?
No, EA being slimey assholes is the reason it has 5 stars. It has a five star rating on google because only ratings of five stars go there.

OT: You know, before I even clicked on this article I said to myself that there would just be accusations of them all being mobile gamers. Seriously, the internet is starting to feel like a boring routine.
 

Canadish

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erttheking said:
BiH-Kira said:
marurder said:
Because those people are the reason why we got Dungeon Keeper mobile and that it has mostly 5 star reviews?
No, EA being slimey assholes is the reason it has 5 stars. It has a five star rating on google because only ratings of five stars go there.

OT: You know, before I even clicked on this article I said to myself that there would just be accusations of them all being mobile gamers. Seriously, the internet is starting to feel like a boring routine.
To be fair, the study is lacking in any detailed classification. I'm just glad to see folks here showing critical thinking and not just accepting the statistics as presented. "Gamer" is too broad a term and the fact it's the hot, trendy thing at the moment makes me even more skeptical.

It's the men as well, I'd be curious to know how many of those participants just play mobile games/the Marios when they visit cousin Billy's house, regardless of gender.
 

Madmonk12345

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The reason why women play more mobile games? Facebook games?

Because it turns out that con men aren't picky. They'll take anyone, unlike the actual gaming community and modern games designed as they are. Facebook games are often far more progressive than modern games on the market; the only problem is that they're designed to steal your money.
 

havoc33

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Almost every girl I know is a gamer if you want to be technical about it. But only TWO of them ever buy and play AAA titles. For the rest it's all simple mobile games, or the Sims, that's it. Even my gf who can enjoy the casual round of Mario Kart or whatever, would never ever buy a console herself and look for the latest AAA title (this is by her own admission btw).
 

ron1n

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Yosharian said:
Which leaves us with 17% of this 47% being actual gamers in this sense:

The irony being dodger doesn't actually play all that much. You ever seen her on the podcast? Has no clue what's going on.

This in itself is another type of person again who tends to be into geek culture/games/manga/sci-fi/comics etc. They exude the stereotypical 'gamer' look but don't actually play all that much other than casual stuff or some WoW/3DS stuff.

In my experience the most full on (in terms of hours and involvement) 'gamers' are nearly always just more normal everyday kind of people minus any excessive geek paraphernalia.

Really though, I just wish we could get past the whole 'gamer' tag all together. I mean, the medium is as common as film or television now, and we don't call people who watch tv 'watchers' so why 'gamers'?
 

Steven Bogos

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ron1n said:
Yosharian said:
Which leaves us with 17% of this 47% being actual gamers in this sense:

The irony being dodger doesn't actually play all that much. You ever seen her on the podcast? Has no clue what's going on.
Well I don't know Dodger personally but she seems like the real deal to me. She plays real games on her channel. I'm aware that there are girls who pretend to be gamers but I don't think Dodger is one of those.

Main reason I used Dodger as an example was that she was easy to google. You could put in place of that pic any girl who actually plays real games.

erttheking said:
OT: You know, before I even clicked on this article I said to myself that there would just be accusations of them all being mobile gamers. Seriously, the internet is starting to feel like a boring routine.
When internet media stops posting 'studies' that 'show' half the gamer population is female, I'll stop posting rebuttals.
 

Erttheking

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Canadish said:
erttheking said:
BiH-Kira said:
marurder said:
Because those people are the reason why we got Dungeon Keeper mobile and that it has mostly 5 star reviews?
No, EA being slimey assholes is the reason it has 5 stars. It has a five star rating on google because only ratings of five stars go there.

OT: You know, before I even clicked on this article I said to myself that there would just be accusations of them all being mobile gamers. Seriously, the internet is starting to feel like a boring routine.
To be fair, the study is lacking in any detailed classification. I'm just glad to see folks here showing critical thinking and not just accepting the statistics as presented. "Gamer" is too broad a term and the fact it's the hot, trendy thing at the moment makes me even more skeptical.

It's the men as well, I'd be curious to know how many of those participants just play mobile games/the Marios when they visit cousin Billy's house, regardless of gender.
Fair point. I'm just getting tired of everything that goes on the internet being as predictable as clockwork. Argument about sexism here, Americans are stupid there, bashing the latest AAA game in the middle then it all starts over again.
 

Erttheking

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Yosharian said:
erttheking said:
OT: You know, before I even clicked on this article I said to myself that there would just be accusations of them all being mobile gamers. Seriously, the internet is starting to feel like a boring routine.
When internet media stops posting 'studies' that 'show' half the gamer population is female, I'll stop posting rebuttals.
To be fair, you actually followed up your argument with reasoning as opposed to just basing your argument on stereotypes.
 

iseko

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I try to be mature (-ish) on the internet but statements like these I find very hard to believe. The immediate response that popped into my head when I saw the title was: Tits or gtfo!

Back OT: Nope, Nope nope nope nope nope. If they added a survey of type of games and or hours per week I could start pulling some facts from this survey. I've already read the replies above and I saw people reacting to the OP's "gamers" thing. Meaning that they don't really refer to actual gamers, they only call themselves that.

To people who disagree: sorry but you are wrong. Playing angry birds on your smartphone does not make you a gamer. Just as making a tornado in a bottle does not make you a scientist! There are arbitrary lines that define someone as a gamer but really, angry birds is not it. I wonder how many of the female gamers just play farmsville and then go: I'm such a gamer. I reply: no you're not. You know why? You refer to COD as: the one with all the guns. And Mass effect as: star wars? And strangely starcraft: also star wars?

If you cannot bring forth a very limited description of modern AAA games then you are not a gamer. That is where I draw my line. You don't even have to play them (personally for me COD can go fuck itself) but you need to know what they are.
 

ron1n

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Yosharian said:
Well I don't know Dodger personally but she seems like the real deal to me. She plays real games on her channel. I'm aware that there are girls who pretend to be gamers but I don't think Dodger is one of those.

Main reason I used Dodger as an example was that she was easy to google. You could put in place of that pic any girl who actually plays real games.
Not saying she doesn't play, just saying that despite appearances, people like her don't really fit into the small percentage of girls that play a ton. Which in the case of these studies, is the only real meaningful statistic.

It's like a lot of things though. You'll see some person wearing a band tee with the 'metal' look when in reality they often only listen to like 2-4 mainstream metal bands and aren't really into it otherwise.

It's not 'faking' it's more just a case of people who identify with the look and culture more than the actual pass time, which is fine.
 

CardinalPiggles

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A little more information is needed I think. What is the average age of female gamers and what is the average age of male gamers? For example.

But most of it is common sense too. I mean we all know mobile games are largely just time wasters for people, and we all know people play games for fun.

Steven Bogos said:
After all, I drive a car, but i'm the furthest from what you would call a "car enthusiast."
In fairness, you're still a driver, the same as someone who plays games is a gamer.
 

saltyanon

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Galen Marek said:
Just because they don't play triple A games doesn't mean they aren't a gamer.
This data is actually pretty valuable to Triple A publishers. It tells them to change their business model and target audience and where they produce their games, which they are doing. Go figure.
Yes! Time to market Spunkgargleweewee 2015 to females playing nothing but bejeweled and candy crush!
 

Steven Bogos

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CardinalPiggles said:
A little more information is needed I think. What is the average age of female gamers and what is the average age of male gamers? For example.

But most of it is common sense too. I mean we all know mobile games are largely just time wasters for people, and we all know people play games for fun.

Steven Bogos said:
After all, I drive a car, but i'm the furthest from what you would call a "car enthusiast."
In fairness, you're still a driver, the same as someone who plays games is a gamer.
I never said that people who play casual/facebook games aren't gamers. I said they they may not be "gaming enthusiasts"
 

AstaresPanda

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Im sure this is somthing we've all known as what the mass media portrays most groups to be. But these 30 year olds are the gamers who grew up with it all at the start, who made it popular to break into the mainstream and not just be for kids, its as normal as TV is so i dont know why that stereotype of games are for kids despite having adult ratings on them and adult themes and story lines more these days. oR is the world really just ran by old closed minded assholes.
 

Steven Bogos

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marurder said:
Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
This. This is exactly the problem with 'gamers' that feel they are the 'real' gamers. (I refer to the OP). I think it is a good thing that people feel it socially acceptable to refer to themselves as gamers whether the OP's attitude may accept it or not. I have mentioned in earlier posts before that some 'gamers' (those that may subscribe strongly to the 'culture' are a little phobic or distrustful of newcomers).
Hey there, friend! I never tried to claim that I was a 'real' gamer or that people who only play facebook/casual games are not 'real' gamers, i simple stated that they, and I quote, may not "subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" do"

I even provided the example of driving a car. I am a "driver", but I am not a "driving enthusiast" and I don't subscribe to driving culture (read car websites, watch competitive racing, go to car shows) as much as said enthusiasts.

I honestly don't know how I can make myself more clearer. Help me out here, bro.
 

Adeptus Aspartem

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Meh, someone that lables himself as a "gamer" is more to me, than just someone how durdles around on his cellphone for 5min waiting on the bus.

Gettin' a free bungee-jump/skydive on your birthday doesn't make you an extreme sports nut. Jogging once a week doesn't make you an athlete. Playing for 5min doesn't make you a "gamer" in the sense of a hobbyist.
I know that's an unpopular opinion nowadays, but that's just how it is to me.
 

RJ 17

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Not for nothing but...haven't they already done studies that say that the gamer population world-wide is just about a 50-50 split between guys and girls?
 

smithy_2045

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Geez, people are awfully caustic towards these self-identified gamers for somehow not being real gamers, whatever that means.
 

Trishbot

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There is a difference between a gamer and a games enthusiast.

Games are games, even the crummy ones. As a gamer myself, I'd probably rather play Bejeweled or Angry Birds over something like, say, Duke Nukem Forever or Superman 64...

Not everyone has to play Dark Souls to be a gamer.
 

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ron1n said:
It's like a lot of things though. You'll see some person wearing a band tee with the 'metal' look when in reality they often only listen to like 2-4 mainstream metal bands and aren't really into it otherwise.

It's not 'faking' it's more just a case of people who identify with the look and culture more than the actual pass time, which is fine.
Would you call such a person a "metalhead"? Would it make you a $DEMOGRAPHIC_CATEGORY-ist to suggest that such a person is not a metalhead, even if they photograph themselves in that outfit with the caption "I am *such* a metalhead!!"?

CardinalPiggles said:
In fairness, you're still a driver, the same as someone who plays games is a gamer.
Worth noting that until fairly recently, "gamer" was more analogous with "movie buff" than "moviegoer", only really changing in anyone's minds as geeky subcultures became the new trendy thing. That is to say that just a few years ago, calling someone who only plays solitaire on their work PC during their lunch break "not a gamer" would not have been a problem to anyone, now it's whatever-that-person-is-ism to even suggest it.
 

Ratty

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Jan 21, 2014
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Oh hey, it's this discussion again. Most women who play games play casual/mobile games, therefore they're not "real gamers". Never mind that in this day and age that's probably true of men to.

We really need to move into a more descriptive term for enthusiasts. Like "movie buff" or at least an analogue for "couch potato" :p
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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Women who play smartphone games are very much real gamers. Hell you try topping some of those scores. Holy hell! I played the entirety of what I assume is the original Angry Birds (Because I believe in getting to know something that I prefer to hate) And I enjoyed it enough to beat every core level and a few of the bonus area levels completely and entirely.

And I said, wow, that was kind of fun.

Then tried some of the star wars stuff, and said, wow, this is getting kind crap.

Yet it keeps attracting a much wider female audience.

Now let's assume an unrealistic statistic. That all 24% of farmville players were all women. And that the 15% online role playing crowd was also all female. That leaves literally 8% of female gamers being console players or PC gamers.

Now this assumes a ton of course, but let's face it, while social network games, and MMOs have female presence of female characters in some factor or another, most of the characters found in these games are not characters, but rather avatars representations of self, not actual characters in and of themselves.

I asked a couple of female video game players what it would take to get them to play a zombie game like Resident Evil, or an FPS like CoD or Halo.

Female playable characters "with" So not just female playable characters, but an added bonus, well developed character and story.

Sounds reasonable. Except the last time I played a game like that was an RPG. I've played many a zombie game, and many a FPS, but a well developed story for a zombie game or FPS not so much. Even with a playable female character in the Dead Rising series, would not a well developed story or character be present. Capcom, I love ya, but your story telling is really meh.

Assuming what I have gleaned off female gamers I have talked to, to be true, they want something that pretty much male gamers don't even have from their characters, to get them into games they currently are not interested in, and RPG's seem to fall completely off their radars at times despite having that story and background they seem to be craving, and often the representation they are looking for as well.

But yeah, women who play games like Angry Birds, they're gamers. I've seen those scores. Yes, they're gamers.

What we can make to truly appeal to them to get them to buy into the other genres is a whole different beast.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
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When I saw the link, I was wondering how many posts until someone tried to bring up the issue of 'real gamers." To my surprise, it was the article itself.

Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.
Women might not be as forthcoming about their habits for a number of reasons. There's a social stigma against women gaming, and there's one from within gaming, too. There's harassment, antipathy, resentment and outright anger at girls being allowed in the treehouse. A large number of women say they actively hide their gender because of the way gaming treats them.

You see all these on The Escapist: testimonials of women who have at the least been told they don't fit and at most have been harassed the to point they hide their identities.

It's also been posted here many times that the most popular games with women tend to be the same games men play. Anecdotally, The Escapist population would back that up.

Maybe the question shouldn't be "where are all the females?" but "why do we expect them to be open when the males behave like hateful, childish dicks around them?"

I'm surprised there are so many women gamers, but only for the same reason I'm surprised there are so many gay Republicans, not because you don't personally see them around.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
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Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.

Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
I know a few female gamers and no they don't play casual games. These are people that play L4D2, C&C, Warcraft 3, etc etc with the rest of us. Part of the reason I always found this whole "there's no such thing as a female gamer" so bloody strange. Glad to see the stats showing our group isn't the only one.

Zachary Amaranth said:
Women might not be as forthcoming about their habits for a number of reasons. There's a social stigma against women gaming, and there's one from within gaming, too. There's harassment, antipathy, resentment and outright anger at girls being allowed in the treehouse. A large number of women say they actively hide their gender because of the way gaming treats them.
Interesting and sadly quite true point (at least in the general internet community). It's utterly stupid for a form of media to not only be seen as male only but to also harass and bully those that do have an interest in it. Think how stupid it'd be if only men watched movies, only women read books and only kids could listen to music.
 

VanQ

Casual Plebeian
Oct 23, 2009
2,729
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As someone that usually plays 50-60 hours of games a week. If I was ever part of one of these studies and they asked "Do you call yourself a gamer?" I'd probably tell them "Fuck no, games are shit." Not for any reason other than that the gamer label has an unsavory image to it that I don't identify with it.

I have a job, I enjoy the sunlight and I shave my beard daily. And 90% of all games these days are pretty shit and the number is getting higher.
 

Movitz

New member
Jan 30, 2013
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Ah, but are they *face contorts into a disgusted look* casual gamers or *lights up a smoke all cool an' shit* HARDCORE!?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
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Schadrach said:
Worth noting that until fairly recently, "gamer" was more analogous with "movie buff" than "moviegoer", only really changing in anyone's minds as geeky subcultures became the new trendy thing. That is to say that just a few years ago, calling someone who only plays solitaire on their work PC during their lunch break "not a gamer" would not have been a problem to anyone, now it's whatever-that-person-is-ism to even suggest it.
When I was growing up, people who played a video game for five minutes were called a gamer without controversy. The concept of a "casual gamer" would have been ridiculous. The pushback seems to be headed back towards where it started in the first place. People complaining that a word is being culturally appropriated after they culturally appropriated it are really strange.

Ratty said:
Oh hey, it's this discussion again. Most women who play games play casual/mobile games, therefore they're not "real gamers". Never mind that in this day and age that's probably true of men to.
But that's different because ponies.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Stupid survey.

I'm not some hardcore gamer and I honestly don't care about who is a gamer and who isn't, nor do I identify myself as a "gamer" eventhough I play a lot of games, but even I can tell that there's a difference between a "gamer" and someone who likes to play games on their mobile phone every once in a while (which is exactly where that ridiculous statistic comes from).
Not every person who plays farmville or angry birds can be called a gamer. That's, in my eyes, an entirely different industry. These sorts of people have absolutely nothing to do with the actual console/PC gaming industry (which spits out games of an entirely different caliber than say... Flappy Bird), and that's why people get "defensive" over this subject.

It's the difference between someone who plays soccer multiple times a week or even daily as a hobby or a profession, and someone who plays football during the break of school because there's nothing better to do.
Would you call the latter a soccer player? Ofcourse not.

This is not about who you are going to call "a gamer", but about statistics that have no substance, because there's no distinction made between these two groups of people.
 

Drummodino

Can't Stop the Bop
Jan 2, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
RicoADF said:
Woah, woah, woah I'm sorry if what I said was offensive or inappropriate, I honestly didn't intend it to be. I genuinely meant it when I said that I would like to meet some female Aussie gamers (IRL, not on sites like these) that play similar games to me, not just mobile/social media games. I was just sharing my personal experience in that I have not met many at all compared to their male counterparts.

I have no problem with females enjoying my hobby, hell I wished more did. None of my close female friends do, whereas many of my male friends do.
 

Tigerlily Warrior

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Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.

Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
I've worked with guys for years who didn't know I gamed regularly until the subject came up.

My suggestion, when you're talking with girls, bring up gaming and see if they bite or get a blank look on their face. I'd say there's a better chance you finding a girl who plays games as you would finding a girl that's a sports junkie. Like other hobbies people think as male-dominated, we're out there, you just have to ask.

I will admit, I have girl-gamer friends online I've played with for years but not one girlfriend in the area who games like I do. But then again, I don't really talk about it, so I'm in the same boat.
 

Jamash

Top Todger
Jun 25, 2008
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5410

In a Gamefaqs poll of 38691 people, just 7.58% claimed to be female.

Broken down for Australia, 8.09% were female, which is a lot less than the 47% this poll is claiming.

There's quite a big contrast between the results of the two polls, so I wonder which source is more accurate and shows truer representation of the Games industry as a whole.

Is the industry already on the right course with it's male centric AAA games, or does it need to start focusing on more Social Media apps and family friendly activites?

I think both polls are heavily skewed towards showing the results based on the types of people they target, so it stands to reason that a poll from a old gaming website would show a male dominated results, while a poll of households that includes Facebook games at the most popular gaming genre would show a stronger female presence.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
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Drummodino said:
Woah, woah, woah I'm sorry if what I said was offensive or inappropriate, I honestly didn't intend it to be. I genuinely meant it when I said that I would like to meet some female Aussie gamers (IRL, not on sites like these) that play similar games to me, not just mobile/social media games. I was just sharing my personal experience in that I have not met many at all compared to their male counterparts.

I have no problem with females enjoying my hobby, hell I wished more did. None of my close female friends do, whereas many of my male friends do.
I don't know about Zachary but I didn't take your post as offensive, just surprised you don't know any. Guess it's the luck of the draw as to weather you meet a woman willing to admit she plays games.
 

Drummodino

Can't Stop the Bop
Jan 2, 2011
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Tigerlily Warrior said:
My suggestion, when you're talking with girls, bring up gaming and see if they bite or get a blank look on their face. I'd say there's a better chance you finding a girl who plays games as you would finding a girl that's a sports junkie. Like other hobbies people think as male-dominated, we're out there, you just have to ask.
I have tried talking about games with girls before and I usually get the blank face reaction, or they try and shift the conversation to another topic. Apart from the one girl I mentioned in my post, the most I ever found was a girl who played Plants vs Zombies. I guess I'm just unlucky, but I've never had a problem finding a guy to discuss gaming with.

RicoADF said:
I don't know about Zachary but I didn't take your post as offensive, just surprised you don't know any. Guess it's the luck of the draw as to weather you meet a woman willing to admit she plays games.
Ah, my apologies for the confusion. I was just afraid you'd interpreted my post as being anti-women gamers.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
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Drummodino said:
Woah, woah, woah I'm sorry if what I said was offensive or inappropriate, I honestly didn't intend it to be. I genuinely meant it when I said that I would like to meet some female Aussie gamers (IRL, not on sites like these) that play similar games to me, not just mobile/social media games. I was just sharing my personal experience in that I have not met many at all compared to their male counterparts.

I have no problem with females enjoying my hobby, hell I wished more did. None of my close female friends do, whereas many of my male friends do.
I was merely pointing to the factors that may be in play. There's no reason to infer specific offense here. I mean, I find the overall treatment to be offensive, but that's neither here nor there.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
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Jamash said:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5410

In a Gamefaqs poll of 38691 people, just 7.58% claimed to be female.

Broken down for Australia, 8.09% were female, which is a lot less than the 47% this poll is claiming.
Ahhh, GameFAQs, the height of polling accuracy. I mean, seriously, even their own site takes issue with the polling results.
 

Cybylt

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Aug 13, 2009
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Ratty said:
Oh hey, it's this discussion again. Most women who play games play casual/mobile games, therefore they're not "real gamers". Never mind that in this day and age that's probably true of men to.

We really need to move into a more descriptive term for enthusiasts. Like "movie buff" or at least an analogue for "couch potato" :p
To be fair, the men who fit into the casual market alone would also not be called "real gamers" by the same people saying that of the women.

It's a problem of definition as to a lot of people on websites like this "gamer" implies someone to be a fully into the hobby as opposed to the meaning it's taken on for surveys like this which are about as effective in demographic research as asking "do you watch television?"
 

Jamash

Top Todger
Jun 25, 2008
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Jamash said:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5410

In a Gamefaqs poll of 38691 people, just 7.58% claimed to be female.

Broken down for Australia, 8.09% were female, which is a lot less than the 47% this poll is claiming.
Ahhh, GameFAQs, the height of polling accuracy. I mean, seriously, even their own site takes issue with the polling results.
How inaccurate can a simple binary poll be?

I know there's no required proof and technically you could have some people claiming to be female when they're male, or some females claiming to be males, and I know that technically you could use proxies to cast more than one vote, but do you really think that this is what happened in this case?
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.

Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
I know a decent amount of gamer girls around here, and honestly, most gamer girls I know don't like to make their gamer-habits public because asshats tend to be sexist asshats towards them and do the bullshit 'Hurr durr yurr nurrt a ruul gumurr' as opposed to actually interacting with them like a real human being.

Hell, I've gone over to a female friends house and been surprised by the fact that she owned a 360 and all the COD games - she just never spoke about it because she'd always get challenged about her interest in the series, wheras with guys they'd be considered a 'gamer' just by playing it.

So, you know, they do exist and are more common than you'd think - they just don't show it because assholes abound.

Yosharian said:
24% of gamers play social network games (i.e. Facebook games). Vast majority, say 20% of that 24%, are almost certainly female. So 20% of the total percentage of 'gamers' are female and playing Farmville.

Combine this with the '47% female gamers' statistic.

I'll willing to bet that out of that 47% female gamers, a significant amount are extreme-casual i.e. consider themselves gamers because they play Angry Birds. It's not outlandish to presume that 20% of them are playing what gamers wouldn't even consider to be real games.

That leaves an actual 27% to be playing what are considered actual games, and I'd bet quite a lot of those are very casual in the manner in which they play (i.e. 1 hour every weekend of Zelda or whatever). Again, not outlandish to consider than 10% or so probably don't game seriously in any way.

Which leaves us with 17% of this 47% being actual gamers in this sense:



Which is about what I figured. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can tell you that half the gaming population is not female.

Of course, you can apply the same methodology to male gamers, but I think in the case of men, most of them play more serious games than Farmville.
The question here is, what constitutes a gamer? Time put into the game? Complexity of the game? Skill in the game? Do they become a gamer once they do the gamer ritual and sacrifice a Gamecube to the PC Gods?

Other questions include - are you a serious gamer if you only play FIFA or CoD? Lord knows I know some blokes who play CoD but aren't 'Gamers', because they play it in a similar vein as Facebook games; it's a thing to pass the time, but no serious investment in it.

My personal favorite - Are Girl gamers and Guy Gamers being held to the same level of judgement when it comes to 'serious' gaming? As I mentioned in my reply to Drummodino above, my female friend who plays CoD is constantly challenged about her gamerness whenever she slips up and lets idiots know about it, whereas male 'gamers' are often assumed to be gamers because they play 'serious' games extremely casually. Would this be skewing the results in any way, shape or form?

Now, as you said that 47% of female gamers would include people who do just play Facebook games for 5-10 minutes a week, but I would challenge the assumption that you could trim those numbers back to 17% while at the same time making the claim of male gamers being more numerous due to playing more 'serious' games. If anything I'd bump that number up to 25-30%ish (due to the nature of many gamer girls hiding their gamerness) and dock about 15-20% from the Male gamer percentage as well (if we're not including extreme casual gamers).

I'd also throw out the question - are male gamers playing more 'serious' games due to the fact that the industry is focused more on appealing to the male player base than the female player base? If so, should we then stop not classifying casual games as 'games' when they're often played because they appeal to both genders equally instead of throwing around horribly sexist content and alienating one gender entirely?
 

crazy_coug99

Official Representative of WSU
Sep 17, 2012
99
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Setting aside the definition of 'gamer,' I find these findings similar to the US statistics of gamers. Of course I may be mistaken but I wanna say close to 50% of gamers are female and the average age is late 20s to early 30s. Which reflect this article.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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Jamash said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Jamash said:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5410

In a Gamefaqs poll of 38691 people, just 7.58% claimed to be female.

Broken down for Australia, 8.09% were female, which is a lot less than the 47% this poll is claiming.
Ahhh, GameFAQs, the height of polling accuracy. I mean, seriously, even their own site takes issue with the polling results.
How inaccurate can a simple binary poll be?

I know there's no required proof and technically you could have some people claiming to be female when they're male, or some females claiming to be males, and I know that technically you could use proxies to cast more than one vote, but do you really think that this is what happened in this case?
The inaccuracy of the poll is due to the nature of the audience as opposed to the poll itself - the assumption that the audience of GameFAQS somehow perfectly reflects the nature of the gamer population is a flawed assumption too. Also the idea that everyone votes in the GameFAQs polls (been using the site for something like 7 years, never voted once)...

So, you know. There's a lot of inaccuracies with a simple binary poll. Namely, everything influencing the poll itself.
 

Tentaquil

New member
Oct 21, 2011
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I really hope they don't eschew traditional genres of gaming to focus on casual and social gaming. That would suck something fierce.

I feel this poll shouldn't be taken at all seriously, the many flaws and inaccuracies are showing the unreliability of the end results.
 

hazydawn

New member
Jan 11, 2013
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008Zulu said:
"Gamers" is an umbrella term meaning anyone who plays (computer) games. Like any genus, there are species; Casual, hardcore, etc.

People who play Farmville a few minutes everyday have the right to call themselves a gamer as much as someone who plays Halo for 8 hours.
I wouldn't call myself a soccer player if I only played from time to time with my friends. That's basically the same.
If not, a destinction between casual and "hardcore" gamers seems necessary to me. Hypothetically speaking if my mother played Minesweeper an hour every day, would that make her a gamer? Is she a part of game culture? I don't think so. Esentially though the destinction between casual and "hardcore" can be never a clear boundary, just like high and low culture.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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Shanicus said:
The question here is, what constitutes a gamer? Time put into the game? Complexity of the game? Skill in the game? Do they become a gamer once they do the gamer ritual and sacrifice a Gamecube to the PC Gods?
In my opinion: a mixture of those things, and other things.

I agree that that is the question, though.

Shanicus said:
Other questions include - are you a serious gamer if you only play FIFA or CoD? Lord knows I know some blokes who play CoD but aren't 'Gamers', because they play it in a similar vein as Facebook games; it's a thing to pass the time, but no serious investment in it.
Depends on how often you play those games. If you own your own Xbox and you regularly play FIFA, then yeah you're a gamer. If you occasionally play FIFA while at your mate's house but otherwise aren't interested, then no.

Shanicus said:
My personal favorite - Are Girl gamers and Guy Gamers being held to the same level of judgement when it comes to 'serious' gaming? As I mentioned in my reply to Drummodino above, my female friend who plays CoD is constantly challenged about her gamerness whenever she slips up and lets idiots know about it, whereas male 'gamers' are often assumed to be gamers because they play 'serious' games extremely casually. Would this be skewing the results in any way, shape or form?
Are girl gamers and guy gamers being held to the same level of judgement by society? Girl gamers are 'cute' and 'empowering themselves'. Guy gamers are 'losers', 'manchildren', 'little boys who haven't grown up'. Society likes to look down on male gamers.

So are they held to the same level of judgement when it comes to serious gaming? No. Why would they be? 'Society' is fickle, shallow and narrow-minded.

Shanicus said:
Now, as you said that 47% of female gamers would include people who do just play Facebook games for 5-10 minutes a week, but I would challenge the assumption that you could trim those numbers back to 17% while at the same time making the claim of male gamers being more numerous due to playing more 'serious' games. If anything I'd bump that number up to 25-30%ish (due to the nature of many gamer girls hiding their gamerness) and dock about 15-20% from the Male gamer percentage as well (if we're not including extreme casual gamers).
You're welcome to challenge my assertion but you haven't provided any reasoning as to why I should listen to your challenge.

Dock 15-20% from the male gamer percentage: you're saying that out of the 53% of male gamers included in this survey, 15-20% of that (so 7.5-10% of the total male gaming population) are casual gamers. I think that's possible - I doubt they're playing Facebook games though. Most of them are probably dudebros that dabble in the occasional game of FIFA while at a mate's house.

Shanicus said:
I'd also throw out the question - are male gamers playing more 'serious' games due to the fact that the industry is focused more on appealing to the male player base than the female player base? If so, should we then stop not classifying casual games as 'games' when they're often played because they appeal to both genders equally instead of throwing around horribly sexist content and alienating one gender entirely?
Industry more focused on appealing to male player base
|
therefore
|
Male gamers are playing more serious games
|
therefore
|
Female gamers aren't playing serious games because there are no serious games for them to play

I don't think that logically follows.

A game is a game, and labelling one thing as 'game' and another as 'not-game' is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the claim that 'women are as into gaming as men are', which is what this survey is going to be used as evidence for, and which it is decidedly not evidence of.
 

Trishbot

New member
May 10, 2011
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Tentaquil said:
Trishbot said:
There is a difference between a gamer and a games enthusiast.

Games are games, even the crummy ones. As a gamer myself, I'd probably rather play Bejeweled or Angry Birds over something like, say, Duke Nukem Forever or Superman 64...

Not everyone has to play Dark Souls to be a gamer.
Lemme just edit a few things for you....

Trishbot said:
"There is a difference between a Gamer and a 'games enthusiast'.

Casual Games aren't games, especially the crummy ones, . As a non-gamer myself, I'd probably rather play Bejeweled or Angry Birds over something like, say, Duke Nukem Forever or Superman 64 because I'm a casual.

Everyone has to play Dark Souls to be a gamer.
"
I know you're joking... but....

"Casual games are games (it's in the title), even the crummy ones (they're just crummy games, like Too Human and Aliens: Colonial Marines). As a HARDCORE gamer myself, I have totally played Bejeweled and Angry Birds and enjoyed them more than Duke Nukem Forever or Superman 64, but not as much as I enjoyed Xenoblade Chronicles, Resident Evil Remake, or Ninja Gaiden Black, because even hardcore gamers can play casual games from time to time, just like NASCAR drivers can drive a family minivan around town.

Everyone SHOULD play Dark Souls because it's a great game. But it's not a game for everyone."
 
Apr 5, 2008
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The survey means nothing since the term "gamer" was left up to the survey participant to decide on. It is therefore entirely meaningless since it could mean one of a multitude of different things depending on who was asked. I for example would not classify someone who plays "social network games" or "mobile games" as a gamer. The first of those clocked 24% so the survey is meaningless. These are people who play games certainly, but not all of them are "gamers".
 

Karadalis

New member
Apr 26, 2011
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Could people focus less on this artificial brought up argument of who is and who isnt a gamer please and focus more on where these % numbers actually end up in todays gaming market?

THATS the interesting question.. THATS what we could use more data of.

Who plays what game and for what reasons and more importantly how many female gamers are really interested in the tripple A market.

And the myth about compelling female protagonists?

FAT CHANCE

Those have been presented to the market before and they where all rejected kept for lara and samus.

Also Women who claim that a well developed character would get them to play zombie apocalypse number 578923 just say that to not seem shallow or to hide their lack of interest in the matter.

No masterfully crafted protagonist is gonna make you interested in a zombie shooter if youre not interested in shooting zombies. Same goes for all those zombie survival games that pop up. Look at the last of us for example.

Or dead isle (if it actually had fleshed out characters... whose trailer generated a huge interest in the game, didnt meant that tons of female gamers flocked to the stores to buy their copy. My sister who mainly plays JRPGs like the Tales or alchemist series would never play it. Nor would she play Borderlands 2 or Bioshock infinite because she doesnt care for shooters. Same for strategy games or western RPGs where you dont play other peoples story out but are more of an avatar representation of yourselfe.

So while she is a Gamer by all means she is not part of the tripple A market... cause lets face it.. the only Japanese RPGs you could call tripple A nowadays are the final fantasy games, and we all saw what it did to the poor thing. And in the JRPG market there is a surprisingly wealth of female lead characters.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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The survey should've come with a particular definition for "gamer" rather than let everyone use their own definition. Otherwise what's it supposed to be gauging?
 

Ishigami

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Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys?
Not much as it of little consequence for the part of the industry I care about.

Steven Bogos said:
These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.

After all, I drive a car, but i'm the furthest from what you would call a "car enthusiast."
Pretty much this. I like cars yet I still don?t care about the FIAT Panda?
 

wulfy42

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Jan 29, 2009
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I am a gamer.

I have played games my whole life, starting on the trash 80 and apple II, and even created them for years.

My wife would be considered a gamer by this pole. She is.....but she is a casual gamer who only plays games on her IPAD. I have, in the past, gotten her to play a few games on the Wii....and lightgun games on other systems (Elemental gearbolt being by far her (and my) favorite lightgun game).

She...is in no way....a "gamer" girl though. She has no patience for any game that takes more then 3 seconds to figure out. I couldn't get her to play an RPG or FPS if her life depended on it. Forget about platform games, the remote would be through the window in .2 seconds.

I have heard of these elusive gamer girls. I even know people who have married them (online of course, my town isn't big enough to have any of these exotic creatures). I do have many friends, and have had many many more friends, who are gamers. They are all male. Many of them are now married. None of their wives are gamers. Many of their wives play on facebook or play other casual games. In fact, many women as a whole play on facebook or casual games on IPAD and that is their only source of gaming.

That makes them casual gamers I guess....but not "gamers" as in the kind of people who go to a store and buy a gaming system, buy physical games to put into a system etc.

I wish there was more girls who enjoy gaming. I do know they exist. I have, joking aside (hard to tell humor on the internet I know) actually REALLY have seen some. I remember back in the days when I would play dance dance revolution at arcades (against dinosaurs of course), that there was one or two female players as well. It was always shocking to see them. I think I saw 1 female player at a Guitar hero competition I participated in as well. I will say that the numbers are skewed to extremes where I live....with well over 99% of gamers (as in...xbox/ps oweners/players...not even hardcore but invested in gaming as a hobby and not just as a time waster)...are male.

Now, that being said, I have seen many females SELLING games at game stores. In theory, they played games. One would at least imagine that is the case. But as far as finding actual female gamers in real life? I have not had much luck. I have always been jelous of those who have found someone of the opposite sex that enjoys their favorite hobby as well. I used to put alot of effort into finding games both me and my wife could play (Elebits on the Wii, Light gun games, bejewled...and the original plants vs zombies..which I count as a real game that she really enjoyed!). I gave up a few years ago after we got ipads as she went down a dark rabbit hole of casual games and was lost to me. I just look for new casual "candy crush, peggle etc" type games for her occasionally and throw them into her cage to keep her happy (The cage being her Ipad which has taken over her life..and not just from casual games, she's always tweeting, posting on facebook, watching youtube etc on there).

All that aside, I have always found Australian girls extremely attractive (no, my wife isn't Australian, but she also isn't on this website) so if 47% of them really played games, then perhaps Australia is actually heaven? If we kill enough enemies in games do we get sent to Australia where 7 Australian gamer girls see to our every need in between gaming sessions? Perhaps we should start a new religion?
 

BoogieManFL

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Apr 14, 2008
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To me there are 3 kinds of "Gamers"

Social network game players / Phone game app players
Gamers who play very few or only one genre of games, such as MMOs or sports games.
Then the hardcore gamers who play a wide variety of different genres


I bet a lot of the people who were polled are in group 1. Sure they *could* be called gamers, but there is a big difference in the Farmville/Free Game/Phone Game players, and those who buy/play a wide variety of games.

But all in all, I'll say you're a gamer if that is typically your favorite activity to do in your free time before most other things.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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smithy_2045 said:
Geez, people are awfully caustic towards these self-identified gamers for somehow not being real gamers, whatever that means.
Yeah, I agree with this... I've played 200+ hours of "Skyrim" and I don't count myself as a "gamer" by the definitions applied by most people here.

Personally I think it's great that we're seeing a wider audience of people who take part in the videogaming industry with different tastes and needs. It encourages the publishers to diversify, and gives the creators impetus to use ideas that maybe they wouldn't have thought would sell before now.

Now it's true that we also have the negative side of it, exemplified in the likes of "Dungeon Keeper Mobile". But here's the thing - I don't know anybody who's bought it or played it. Obviously some people DO buy into this crap, otherwise they wouldn't keep selling it; but you'd hope that once they've been "burned" once or twice they'd "get wise". I would prefer to believe that the majority of my fellow bipeds are not so damn stupid that they don't learn from this stuff.

What I'm more worried about is that they come to believe that ALL games are cynical cash-extractors. We could be teaching a huge subset of people that games are just the tools of con-artists. That would not be good.

EDIT: And by BoogieMan's definitions, above, I'd be in subset #2. I play games as a hobby but tend to stick to my favorite genres. And I rarely buy new games, especially AAA ones.
 

Robert Marrs

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Mar 26, 2013
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Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.

Obviously this survey included a lot of casual smartphone/social media gamers. If we were to just include "hardcore" gamers (for lack of a better term), I think the results would be very different.
The results would be very different. This is why the "well half of gamers are women" statistic that people throw around when they want to make a point needs to be evaluated by anyone who wants to use it. Women do make up about half of gamers WHEN you include smartphone games. Pretty much every human with a smartphone plays some sort of game on it. I think its safe to say the numbers would be closer to 75% male 25% female just based on my 17 years playing video games and interacting with many different people but even that is probably being generous.

I don't know why people are so obsessed with trying to prove its a level playing field because it simply is not. Actually I know exactly why people are so obsessed with it. Because anytime there are more men than women in a group its seen as sexist or exclusionary and there is a push to try and change it. You have to draw up the illusion that the target demographic is much more diverse than it really is in hopes that major developers will adjust the way they make games to meet the needs of that market.

People for some reason fail to realize that large companies like that do their research and probably have a more accurate description of their target audience than anyone here. So if anything they will see that shift first and games will change as a result. That is really the only thing that will change gaming diversity and representation in the long run. Not brow-beating and social shaming but ACTUAL demographic shifts. If it really was 50/50 the games we get would represent that. Ultimately its just another failed tactic of the politically correct, social justice warrior crowd, trying to change things (in some ways for the better I must admit) by lying, shaming and shutting down conversation with accusations of misogyny anytime someone challenges it.

TLDR: NO company is going to ignore 50% of their market share. No amount of internalized misogyny is going to convince EA that its ok to only make $500,000 instead of $1,000,000. If 50% of gamers NOT including facebook and mobile games (which is an entirely different market) were women there would be a massive shift in diversity when it comes to AAA titles. The fact that this has not happened should tell anyone who enjoys a nice dose of logic in their day that without the mobile and social market the demographic would be an overwhelming majority of males.
 

EndlessSporadic

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smithy_2045 said:
Geez, people are awfully caustic towards these self-identified gamers for somehow not being real gamers, whatever that means.
People confuse "real gamer" with "non-casual gamer". Casual gamers are those who play solely on mobile devices.

What percentage of women are non-casual gamers? That is somewhere around 20%.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
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Now that these studies are opened up to iOS/Android games and the like as well as for people who have ever played solitaire, the studies mean almost nothing to me. Break them up into gaming genres and platform and I'd value the results much more.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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Robert Marrs said:
Ultimately its just another failed tactic of the politically correct, social justice warrior crowd, trying to change things (in some ways for the better I must admit) by lying, shaming and shutting down conversation with accusations of misogyny anytime someone challenges it.
WHAAAAT??!!!

Where the heck is this even COMING from?

When has ANYBODY ever made an accusation like that?

It's a damn survey guys. It's not the militant feminist's movement to spoil videogames, if there ever was such a thing, which there probably wasn't, because with the amount of young white male petulance I'm seeing in this thread, who the hell would WANT to be associated with you? Right now I don't.

"Ultimately its just another failed tactic of the politically correct, social justice warrior crowd, trying to change things (in some ways for the better I must admit) by lying, shaming and shutting down conversation with accusations of misogyny anytime someone challenges it."

Look, from most of the rest of your comment you seem like a pretty reasonable guy (I'm assuming you are a guy here). So just... read back over what you just wrote in that last paragraph. And read that again, will you, and tell me how it comes off as anything other than the paranoid ramblings of a spoilt, entitled personality? As do many of the comments in this thread. Sorry to pick on you, but as an example of the kind of casual delusional thinking that goes on here... well, that's it, isn't it?

Holy crap guys, it's like we live in a parallel universe or something.

I've been playing games for twenty years and have yet to see a single instance of "accusations of misogyny shutting down conversation", except those mentioned on web forums apparently dominated by men / boys with some severe cases of persecution mania that, as far as I can tell, aren't based on anything that's actually happened in real life, or even in the mass media.

"Shutting down conversation"? We should be so damn lucky. There is a very real subset of misogynist gamers out there, and unfortunately - going on what's happened to certain female journalists and developers - they aren't shutting up any time soon.

I mean, just read some of the comments in this thread and try and justify to me how any conversation is being "shut down". Seems to me it's carrying on just fine!

And while we're on the subject: "The politically correct social justice warrior crowd"? Holy crap. There are actually people who take it for granted that that's a "thing"?

The worst part is that we DO have problems to deal with. While some publishers apparently think so little of us that they market "mature" games with the label: "Your mom's going to hate this!" there are entire sub-sections of media that will call for sensationalist outcry every time it's revealed that a murderer played "Call of Duty" when he wasn't, well, murdering people.

What's needed to tackle these problems is a sensible, rational, empathetic response that recognises what the other side's thinking / feeling, realises WHY they're thinking / feeling it, and is able to find a solution that works to everyone's advantage. Instead we have this.

I posted that even though I played games, I didn't want to call myself a "gamer". I didn't want to be labelled that way. This is why.

Sorry for the rant, but the amount of empty-headed rage here that seems to be accepted as "the norm" just depresses me.

It's a damn survey. It's not "Mein Kampf".
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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marurder said:
By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.

I mean, America likes dividing itself up more and more and that leads to various forms of media and culture to be attacked by other interest groups vying for power. Just look at FOX. But by making gaming a household value (fun) it become mainstream and therefor acceptable. You may want to attack the report for not differentiating between 'hardcore' gamer and someone that plays games. But I think that is just divisive.
I've had the most fun playing 90s RPGs like Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment or Gothic, Adventures like Monkey Island or Simon the Sorcerer as well as Fast-paced FPS (Jedi Knight, Quake 3, Soldier of Fortune) and hard Platformers of the Nintendo variety.

And while there are still games that I enjoy or like a lot nowadays I do not derive much "fun" out of the latest cutscene press-a-button fests that go for games nowadays, Indie Walking Simulators and even less from Free2Pay Mobile games or "Social network" games which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

What possible reason would I have for wanting gaming to become "more mainstrem" if it just means they are going to produce a lot more of that and instead try to ignore what I usually derive "fun" out of? It's like saying just because I like The Godfather and The Man With No Name trilogy or because I like watching Game of Thrones and House of Cards I should be embracing Michael Bay blockbusters and RomComs or TV shows like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars or because I enjoy classical music I should embrace Justin Bieber because he is going to make music "more mainstream".

That way of thinking is all kinds of fucked up, I have nothing to gain from gaming "becoming more mainstream" and an awful lot to lose for instance by EA taking franchises I like, like Dungeon Keeper and Sim City and turning them into whatever those things were. Gaming becoming "mainstream" and "acceptable" is the exact opposite to my definition of "fun".

This is also why I abhor the whole "gamer culture" thing, because the only thing I have in commong with some of these other people is that I consume a kind of vaguely related entertainment product.

seditary said:
Why don't any of these studies aim to gather useful specific information.
Institutions like the ESA and IGDA and similar are industry mouthpieces, they have something to gain from depicting their field as wide, lucrative and diverse. Publishers and game developers usually have their own analysis and statistics of their customer base that they don't share with everyone.
 

Eri

The Light of Dawn
Feb 21, 2009
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Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
 

SwagLordYoloson

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Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents. In contrast there were at least a dozen men I'd call serious gamers, and many more FIFA/COD etc players.
Not hard to find them at least from my experience, most girls in my university course are gamers, and most of my coworkers game including the women. All up I couldn't count all the female gamers I know because I am sure I would be forgetting some. That is at least the culture I have found in my IT course and Software development industry. Not that anyone really has time to game more than a few hours a day when they have a full time job and are studying in the off time.

I'd say that the only 'serious gamers' I know left are those that dropped out of university to 'go pro' at DOTA 2.

Just my experience in Brisbane.
 

Jenvas1306

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I breathe but Im not an air enthusiast...

People who play games frequently are gamers, get the eff over it!

No it doesnt matter that they dont suit the stereotype of a gamer.
No it doesnt matter that they are over 30.
No it doesnt matter what games they play.
No they dont need to focus on details of their favorite games to make up tests for others to prove they are gamers.
And for effs sake, no it doesnt matter what genitals they have.

Would you, who, in this scenario, goes for a jogg every morning, scoff at someone who is just this single time going for a walk when you meet them in the park?
No, you wouldnt care, you would just do your thing for your reasons.
 

Robert Marrs

New member
Mar 26, 2013
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TheMadDoctorsCat said:
Robert Marrs said:
Ultimately its just another failed tactic of the politically correct, social justice warrior crowd, trying to change things (in some ways for the better I must admit) by lying, shaming and shutting down conversation with accusations of misogyny anytime someone challenges it.
WHAAAAT??!!!

Where the heck is this even COMING from?

When has ANYBODY ever made an accusation like that?

It's a damn survey guys. It's not the militant feminist's movement to spoil videogames, if there ever was such a thing, which there probably wasn't, because with the amount of young white male petulance I'm seeing in this thread, who the hell would WANT to be associated with you? Right now I don't.

"Ultimately its just another failed tactic of the politically correct, social justice warrior crowd, trying to change things (in some ways for the better I must admit) by lying, shaming and shutting down conversation with accusations of misogyny anytime someone challenges it."

Look, from most of the rest of your comment you seem like a pretty reasonable guy (I'm assuming you are a guy here). So just... read back over what you just wrote in that last paragraph. And read that again, will you, and tell me how it comes off as anything other than the paranoid ramblings of a spoilt, entitled personality? As do many of the comments in this thread. Sorry to pick on you, but as an example of the kind of casual delusional thinking that goes on here... well, that's it, isn't it?

Holy crap guys, it's like we live in a parallel universe or something.

I've been playing games for twenty years and have yet to see a single instance of "accusations of misogyny shutting down conversation", except those mentioned on web forums apparently dominated by men / boys with some severe cases of persecution mania that, as far as I can tell, aren't based on anything that's actually happened in real life, or even in the mass media.

"Shutting down conversation"? We should be so damn lucky. There is a very real subset of misogynist gamers out there, and unfortunately - going on what's happened to certain female journalists and developers - they aren't shutting up any time soon.

I mean, just read some of the comments in this thread and try and justify to me how any conversation is being "shut down". Seems to me it's carrying on just fine!

And while we're on the subject: "The politically correct social justice warrior crowd"? Holy crap. There are actually people who take it for granted that that's a "thing"?

The worst part is that we DO have problems to deal with. While some publishers apparently think so little of us that they market "mature" games with the label: "Your mom's going to hate this!" there are entire sub-sections of media that will call for sensationalist outcry every time it's revealed that a murderer played "Call of Duty" when he wasn't, well, murdering people.

What's needed to tackle these problems is a sensible, rational, empathetic response that recognises what the other side's thinking / feeling, realises WHY they're thinking / feeling it, and is able to find a solution that works to everyone's advantage. Instead we have this.

I posted that even though I played games, I didn't want to call myself a "gamer". I didn't want to be labelled that way. This is why.

Sorry for the rant, but the amount of empty-headed rage here that seems to be accepted as "the norm" just depresses me.

It's a damn survey. It's not "Mein Kampf".
I think we have some error in communication which is really my fault. I'm not directly accusing THIS survey of being some feminist ploy to take away our precious games. I was drawing the correlation between peoples obsession with everything being "equal" to the point of absurdity and the people who are guaranteed to use surveys like this to further their political agenda. Its not the survey that is bad or even the results.

It is the people who will use the survey and its results as a political soapbox when if you actually dissect the survey you find it in no way supports the points those kinds of people will try to make. If you try to explain that to people usually you are met with snark and underhanded accusations of being some basement dwelling neckbeard who hates women. There are people on both sides of the fence who DO want to shut down the discussion. The problem is one side is easily dismissed as trolls or ACTUAL misogynists while the other side gets to use the guise of moral high ground to shut people up. Meanwhile the rational people who just want to discuss problems without trying to inject political ideology are lost in the crowd. There is no neutral ground to discuss problems that we have and both sides are to blame.
 

Jenvas1306

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Eri said:
Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
why doesnt it make the person a gamer? is farmville not a game?
what if that person has 500+ hours on those games?

so what makes a person a gamer?
 

fohfuu

New member
Aug 3, 2013
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I read the Escapist every day, and I only play entry level stuff (visual novels, portal, mobile games etc.). Does that somehow make me more of a gamer than my mum, who spends several hours a day playing Bejewelled/Papa Pear/Witch Saga or whatever? Maybe. My brother plays League as pretty much a full-time job now, but he doesn't keep as up to date with gamer culture and news as me. Am I more of a gamer than him? Probably not.
I believe that if you are immersed in any set of games and the culture that surrounds the games you play, you are a gamer, whether that's the Flappy Bird fanatic or the teenagers who play COD, but hey, that's just my opinion.
I know this is my first post, by the way, but I only made an account to take tests and used the site for about a year before that :p
 

Eri

The Light of Dawn
Feb 21, 2009
3,626
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0
Jenvas1306 said:
Eri said:
Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
why doesnt it make the person a gamer? is farmville not a game?
what if that person has 500+ hours on those games?

so what makes a person a gamer?
I've taken over 500 photos on my phone, that doesn't make photography my hobby.
 

Jenvas1306

New member
May 1, 2012
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Eri said:
Jenvas1306 said:
Eri said:
Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
why doesnt it make the person a gamer? is farmville not a game?
what if that person has 500+ hours on those games?

so what makes a person a gamer?
I've taken over 500 photos on my phone, that doesn't make photography my hobby.
if you take that number of photos in a rather short time span, it kinda makes it your hobby
 

fozzy360

I endorse Jurassic Park
Oct 20, 2009
688
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0
BoogieManFL said:
To me there are 3 kinds of "Gamers"

Social network game players / Phone game app players
Gamers who play very few or only one genre of games, such as MMOs or sports games.
Then the hardcore gamers who play a wide variety of different genres
I was basically just about to post this.

I don't think two categories of gamers exists any longer. It should be:

Casual
Mainstream
Hardcore

That's a spectrum that is way more agreeable that simply having the first and the last. Now you can label those who play purely the mobile and casual stuff, those who play mostly popular franchises like COD or madden yet still dabble here and there in other titles, and the core crowd who's always been and always will be the core crowd.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Dec 6, 2009
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iseko said:
To people who disagree: sorry but you are wrong.
Well that's just, like, your opinion man.

Playing angry birds on your smartphone does not make you a gamer. Just as making a tornado in a bottle does not make you a scientist! There are arbitrary lines that define someone as a gamer but really, angry birds is not it. I wonder how many of the female gamers just play farmsville and then go: I'm such a gamer. I reply: no you're not. You know why? You refer to COD as: the one with all the guns. And Mass effect as: star wars? And strangely starcraft: also star wars?

If you cannot bring forth a very limited description of modern AAA games then you are not a gamer.
Angry Birds is every bit a goddamn game. People who play Angry Birds and other such smartphone games with enough regularity have every right to call themselves 'gamers'. People who play games that are not AAA have every right to call themselves gamers. I don't know why you thought you were granted custodian of the title of 'gamer', but you aren't.
 

BlindChance

Librarian
Sep 8, 2009
442
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Page 16 is the one on the report you want to read to debunk the wider claims.

Men persistently play longer hour sessions more times per week. The group who play the longest sessions are men aged 16-25, who play in 2.5 hour sessions on average. The group who play the most frequently are boys aged 11-15, who play once every 1.7(ish) days, in 2.2(ish) hour sessions.

By contrast? Women 16-25? Play in 1.6 hour sessions every 2.4 days (again, ish) while girls aged 11-15 play about every 2.3(ish) days, only in sessions of 1.25ish hours.

The Digital Australia report is, as it stands, a puff piece aimed at attempting to improve videogame legislation in Australia by defying stereotypes of gamers. The problem is that it's true lies, damn lies and statistics. And y'know what? Until this year, I got that. We had no R18+ rating. And hell, even now the R18+ rating remains awfully instituted. But it's time to stop with the puff pieces, because they let the industry off the hook.

Y'want the proof that the games industry skews the market to boys? The proof is in the lowest age brackets, where play time is most controlled and before the most socialization can kick in.

Males 6-11 and female 6-11 both play frequently, because they both want to and their parents let them. The result is a dead on even 1.9(ish) days between sessions. But the boys play for 1.75 hours. The girls stop after just over half an hour.

1-5? A lot longer between sessions (parents) at roughly 2.5 days between sessions. But now, where the games made are much less gendered? (Think Sesame Street, etc?) The gap all but vanished in play time. Boys just over half an hours, girls just under. It's radically, markedly different.

To me, those numbers are proof the industry does have a problem with marketing to women. It needs to fix it.

(Fixed my numbers there. Males 6-11 and Females 6-11 were listed as 1-6 in both cases.)
 
Mar 26, 2008
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Speaking as a 37 year old Australian male gamer, where the hell are all these female gamers? Whenever I play something online it is an absolute sausage fest (which is what they're probably avoiding anyway). I've noticed lately that when I play Battlefield 4 online that it is more 30 something guys yelling obscenities, rather than pre-pubescent teens screeching.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Feb 7, 2014
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marurder said:
Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
This. This is exactly the problem with 'gamers' that feel they are the 'real' gamers. (I refer to the OP). I think it is a good thing that people feel it socially acceptable to refer to themselves as gamers whether the OP's attitude may accept it or not. I have mentioned in earlier posts before that some 'gamers' (those that may subscribe strongly to the 'culture' are a little phobic or distrustful of newcomers).

By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.

I mean, America likes dividing itself up more and more and that leads to various forms of media and culture to be attacked by other interest groups vying for power. Just look at FOX. But by making gaming a household value (fun) it become mainstream and therefor acceptable. You may want to attack the report for not differentiating between 'hardcore' gamer and someone that plays games. But I think that is just divisive.

This report is good as it can be used to help propel and shape better laws (classification) and assist budding developers to make more games for markets (globally even) that haven't been tapped that much.
well if you play games regularly you are a "gamer" in my book

hell why is video games the only form of entertainment with this stupid label? where are the "moviers" and the "bookers"?



sure theres people who only play casual games or madden and call of duty, just like there are people who only watch action flicks or simple movies and ignores the rest, more thoughtful movies
 

Phantom Kat

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Jenvas1306 said:
Eri said:
Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
why doesnt it make the person a gamer? is farmville not a game?
what if that person has 500+ hours on those games?

so what makes a person a gamer?
Is football not a game? I guess anyone who plays football is a gamer.

The problem with the label "gamer" is that it's become so diluted it no longer has any agreed upon meaning, like "hipster" or "troll".
 

verdant monkai

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"Oh yeah I'm a massive Gamer! I love Angry Birds, Candy Crush and Flappy Bird" comes to mind.

It all depends what your definition of a "Gamer" is. Mine would probably be someone who spends quite a bit of time playing games, plays a wide number of games, owns a console or a gaming PC and is willing to try a wide variety of games.

Not someone who plays on their mobile device when they have five minutes spare.
 

MrFalconfly

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Tentaquil said:
Last post, last post, last post

True PC gamers apply only please
I think you just excluded everyone on the planet from being "true PC gamers" mate.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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hazydawn said:
I wouldn't call myself a soccer player if I only played from time to time with my friends. That's basically the same.
If not, a destinction between casual and "hardcore" gamers seems necessary to me. Hypothetically speaking if my mother played Minesweeper an hour every day, would that make her a gamer? Is she a part of game culture? I don't think so. Esentially though the destinction between casual and "hardcore" can be never a clear boundary, just like high and low culture.
There is a distinction. Hence my genus/species example. Think of it as lions (hardcore gamers) and tigers (casual gamers). Both are of the family Felidae, genus Panthera. The Lion's species is is P. leo and the Tiger is P. tigris. This minor biology lesson was meant to demonstrate that the two are related, but very different. This model can also be applied to us as gamers. We are all gamers, but the difference is lions to tigers.
 

Ihateregistering1

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Sorry, but these things are pretty arbitrary because someone considering themselves a "gamer" is just a title that anyone can bestow upon themselves if they play anything that can be considered an electronic game.

By the definition here, my mom is a gamer because she plays Scrabble with friends on her IPad, but if you ask her if what she's looking forward to more: the release of Dark Souls 2 or Lords of Shadow 2, you'll pretty quickly figure out just how meaningless the title really is.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Based on the general tone of responses in this thread, I'm starting to think hardcore gamers need their own 'Do you even lift' meme.

'Do you even grind', 'Do you even quickscope', 'Do you even make your own PC' all come to mind.
 

MrHide-Patten

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I do think surveys like these lets the AAA market think it can rest easy; "oh 47% are women, well then we shouldn't change a thing because it's doing fine already. Now back to our grizzled 30 something white male protagonist that shoots things."

Whilst the term is completely arbitrary, I would only consider myself a gamer because I make them for a living, it is a fully consuming passion. It's like a mom calling herself a driver because she drives her kids around, every-bodies a fucking driver now, there's no need for a distinction. Games have penetrated society to the same degree as books and films; it's just that not everybody plays the AAA stuff because they have to wrap their head around controls. My sister doesn't like games where you have to control the camera, she can't hack it, I can because I've been playing them my whole life, it's second nature.

So whilst I don't think people should look down on 'gamers' who play games on Facebook or on their phones/tablet, these surveys don't account for much unless they organize the information, rather than giving industry big wigs an excuse not to experiment with different markets.
 
Mar 26, 2008
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MrFalconfly said:
Tentaquil said:
Last post, last post, last post

*snip large image*

True PC gamers apply only please
I think you just excluded everyone on the planet from being "true PC gamers" mate.
The smaller numbers make it easier for them to sit around in a basement and circle jerk. Seriously, why can't people just enjoy games for what they are and not what they're on?
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Basically this exact thread happened a while ago with another study. I said what you would expect me to say. While it's fine for anyone to call themselves whatever they want, it isn't useful information if you're going to bundle people who play casual/social games with people who play games as a hobby. It just isn't the same market. I'm glad there are more females gaming than I expected. It's just I don't know how many of the kind that are interested in gaming beyond passing the time, and I can't discern anything like that from the full page.
 

DarthSka

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I'm willing to believe that statistic, because now thanks to the casual/mobile/social games markets, more people are playing games than ever. However, I do believe that this might not have much bearing on the Triple A or "hardcore" areas of gaming in the market. Anyone who plays a game is a gamer, but the people keeping the AAA market going are ones who I'd refer to as video game enthusiasts, as in people who game for a hobby, not just on the bus to work. People need to realize that a statistic about a medium as a whole does not reflect every subset of that medium. Just because 47% of gamers are women doesn't mean that same number applies to the people who bought Dead Island. A stay at home mom playing Bejeweled isn't really going to be playing a couple of matches of Call of Duty in the evening. And this isn't only exclusive to the gaming market. Moviegoers are about 50-50 in terms of gender, but do you think there was an even amount of men and women going to see The Sex and the City movies? No, I guarantee you that a large majority was female. Now, if game developers try to cater to "female" tastes or try to make games in general more inclusive in the AAA market it may bring the number up there, but considering how some games like Call of Duty and GTA V perform, there might not be much incentive.
 

MaximumTheHormone

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The way these results are trotted out is deliberately misleading.
I don't think anyone is complaining or arguing about women's representation/involvement with social games like farmville.
Pretty much the entire focus of the big internet fight is on triple A (Or similarly budgeted titles) with some believing that women have been slanted by what this market offers despite being an integral part of its audience and others believing this industry simply panders to its fan base and that games that have ventured outside this integral core haven't been successful, scaring off new entrepreneurial developers.
tl;dr
nobody cares who's playing farmville, they care about who's playing the latest triple A titles
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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marurder said:
Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.
This. This is exactly the problem with 'gamers' that feel they are the 'real' gamers. (I refer to the OP). I think it is a good thing that people feel it socially acceptable to refer to themselves as gamers whether the OP's attitude may accept it or not. I have mentioned in earlier posts before that some 'gamers' (those that may subscribe strongly to the 'culture' are a little phobic or distrustful of newcomers).

By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.

I mean, America likes dividing itself up more and more and that leads to various forms of media and culture to be attacked by other interest groups vying for power. Just look at FOX. But by making gaming a household value (fun) it become mainstream and therefor acceptable. You may want to attack the report for not differentiating between 'hardcore' gamer and someone that plays games. But I think that is just divisive.

This report is good as it can be used to help propel and shape better laws (classification) and assist budding developers to make more games for markets (globally even) that haven't been tapped that much.
Yeah but the ''real'' gamers are the ones who drop all the money, which is why companies target them, which is why games are still primarily targeted at adult males. We are the ones who therefore influence the game market and what future releases look like. Not someone who has only ever really played sims and farmville and has to look down at the buttons when they play with a pad. By definition they are gamers sure, valuable from a commercial perspective? no where near what ''hardcores'' are.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Hixy said:
Yeah but the ''real'' gamers are the ones who drop all the money, which is why companies target them, which is why games are still primarily targeted at adult males.
If that's true, why are so many companies targeting the casual/mobile market?
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Yosharian said:
Shanicus said:
My personal favorite - Are Girl gamers and Guy Gamers being held to the same level of judgement when it comes to 'serious' gaming? As I mentioned in my reply to Drummodino above, my female friend who plays CoD is constantly challenged about her gamerness whenever she slips up and lets idiots know about it, whereas male 'gamers' are often assumed to be gamers because they play 'serious' games extremely casually. Would this be skewing the results in any way, shape or form?
Are girl gamers and guy gamers being held to the same level of judgement by society? Girl gamers are 'cute' and 'empowering themselves'. Guy gamers are 'losers', 'manchildren', 'little boys who haven't grown up'. Society likes to look down on male gamers.

So are they held to the same level of judgement when it comes to serious gaming? No. Why would they be? 'Society' is fickle, shallow and narrow-minded.
I wasn't talking about 'society' and it's views on gamers, though. I was talking about how gamers themselves view and judge other gamers (why there is so much discussion around what constitutes a gamer) and the imbalances between what makes men and women 'gamers' - in my experience a dude is a gamer if he's got an Xbox and 3 games whereas female gamers are held to a much higher 'standard' and need a significantly larger amount of evidence to prove that they are a gamer (let alone the fact that they have to 'prove' being a gamer while it's often assumed of a guy...).

Some of the girl gamers I know wouldn't have marked themselves as 'gamers' on this type of survey entirely because dudebros have told them explicitly that they 'aren't a gamer' despite playing Warcraft III on a daily basis, while some of the guys I know would have signed as 'Gamers' because they played that CoD game at a mates house that one time.

Shanicus said:
Now, as you said that 47% of female gamers would include people who do just play Facebook games for 5-10 minutes a week, but I would challenge the assumption that you could trim those numbers back to 17% while at the same time making the claim of male gamers being more numerous due to playing more 'serious' games. If anything I'd bump that number up to 25-30%ish (due to the nature of many gamer girls hiding their gamerness) and dock about 15-20% from the Male gamer percentage as well (if we're not including extreme casual gamers).
You're welcome to challenge my assertion but you haven't provided any reasoning as to why I should listen to your challenge.

Dock 15-20% from the male gamer percentage: you're saying that out of the 53% of male gamers included in this survey, 15-20% of that (so 7.5-10% of the total male gaming population) are casual gamers. I think that's possible - I doubt they're playing Facebook games though. Most of them are probably dudebros that dabble in the occasional game of FIFA while at a mate's house.
The problem I have with your assumption is that it well... assumes a lot about female gamers and their playing habits by cutting 30% off due to either a) playing 'casual' games, b) not playing games often enough and c) not 'seriously' gaming.

Now, we may be operating on different ideas of what constitutes a gamer (I would consider my mother a 'Gamer' because she plays both casual games quite extensively and occasionally fires up the Wii to game), but the fact that you take 20% off for playing casual games makes me question it due to the fact that you can play 'casual' games at a 'serious' level.

Shanicus said:
I'd also throw out the question - are male gamers playing more 'serious' games due to the fact that the industry is focused more on appealing to the male player base than the female player base? If so, should we then stop not classifying casual games as 'games' when they're often played because they appeal to both genders equally instead of throwing around horribly sexist content and alienating one gender entirely?
Industry more focused on appealing to male player base
|
therefore
|
Male gamers are playing more serious games
|
therefore
|
Female gamers aren't playing serious games because there are no serious games for them to play

I don't think that logically follows.

A game is a game, and labelling one thing as 'game' and another as 'not-game' is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the claim that 'women are as into gaming as men are', which is what this survey is going to be used as evidence for, and which it is decidedly not evidence of.
It's more 'Female Gamers aren't playing 'serious' games because they're alienating' than anything else - why I mention the casual game thing.

And if a game is a game, why did you take off 20% of the base number for 'playing what gamers wouldn't even consider to be real games'? That's... contradictory to your own assumption more than anything.

From everything I've seen women can get into gaming really easily and do have an interest in gaming itself, it's just the games industry doesn't give two shits because it's easier to make money appealing to the douchebro instead. I can believe that 47% of aussie gamers are chicks because there are a large amount of girls who do actually play games, it's just they either play casual games or just don't talk about it because assholes exist.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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I'd say that what differentiates the type of people who visit websites like this from the dudes that only play Fifa and the women that only play Flappy Bird is that we value and explore video games as an artistic medium. It seems to be increasingly popular to say that the latter type of person is also a "gamer". So what do we call the former? "Game enthusiasts"?

It doesn't take a statistician to see that the vast majority (probably about 90%) of "game enthusiasts" are male. And it doesn't take a market researcher to know that trying to market an "enthusiast" game (say, Dark Souls) to casual gamers is mostly a waste of money. This explains why most "enthusiast" games seem to be marketed towards men - because the audience is and probably always will be predominantly male.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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About half the human population is female.

All gamers are human.

Therefore, about half the gamer population is female.

QED.

Anybody who thinks otherwise is being stupid.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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"Passing time" for mobile gamers.... ITS MORE LIKE WASTING TIME!!!!

(i hope it wasnt already said, i just couldnt read the rest of the posts, TOO many text walls, make your ideas more concise guys...)
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Hixy said:
Yeah but the ''real'' gamers are the ones who drop all the money, which is why companies target them, which is why games are still primarily targeted at adult males.
If that's true, why are so many companies targeting the casual/mobile market?
Because they see there is a buck to be made, and the cost of making a game on the casual platform is an extremely low cost to profit ratio.

This also ignores the fact that the mobile gaming boom is a bubble doomed to pop under the current monetization methods. Just as the console gaming industry is a bubble doomed to pop under it's current monetization methods, and one of the highest success levels in the gaming industry is the PC industry AKA the Steam Distribution method.

The cost, method of distribution, and methods of monetizing on the product are all adding into the bubble popping.

But here let me help you with the mobile game market for a second.

It has quite probably literally a MILLION GAMES. Name 100 good games that can be called true good gaming, versus, just fun little timesinks.

This shouldn't be hard given the scopes of games made on this particular platform.

Now I'll bet I could name a hundred good games, that most people would agree are good, quality games, some would even call masterpieces. I have doubts there are any games on mobile save plants versus zombies and Angry Birds that would be called masterpieces by anyone.

People are flooding to mobile devices because they see a way to make money, and a quick, and easy buck at that. This speaks nothing for the quality of the game, only the ability for which they have a way to make easy money.

If I can develop a game for mobile for a hundred dollars, and make a million dollars off of it, it doesn't matter if I am literally poisoning the gaming market with trash games and the bubble will eventually pop. I conned a hundred thousand suckers out of ten bucks a piece for a 100 dollar game to develop. Who may continue to pay because they want to get further.

Yes women play mobile games. But developers aren't flocking there because they are there to make quality gaming experiences. They are flocking there because it is easy money.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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In contrast to 45% of female gamers in US and the average age being 30 (dropped from 37 btw) i think the results are fairly confirmatory. I however an saddened that the investigation didnt bother to check the disparity between genres and types of games. Its easy to say 47% of gamers are females, but when you look at deeper research you find that social games like farmville are dominated by 80%+ female audience while FPS is dominated by 90% male audiences. there are different types different genders play, and its not wrong. However people will take this study and start shouting that "derp COD must padner to females since half of its audience are females" when they would be blatantly wrong. As was proven by multiple games that failed with trying to make female-only protagonist. Its not as simple as half of gamers are female.

Steven Bogos said:
What do you think of these kinds of surveys? These days, pretty much everyone has a smartphone capable of playing games. Everyone can be a "gamer", but that doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to gaming culture to the same extent that "gaming enthusiasts" (such as those of you with enough interest to read a website such as The Escapist) do.

After all, I drive a car, but i'm the furthest from what you would call a "car enthusiast."
They are gamers. And you are a car driver. They are not "Game enthusiasts" like you are not "Car enthusiast". there is nothing wrong with being "just a gamer" though. The enthusiasts are merely an easy way to label people who actively participate in the community rather than simply being part of it. You dont need to visit this site and read all the news every day like i do to be a gamer. I am as much a gamer as the guy that picks up a console during the weekend and never posts on forums.


marurder said:
By alienating others you only make the gaming culture more divided (as we see this happening more and more) - PS's users fighting XBox, and PC users against all. And the the whole point is to have 'fun'. I think the OP attitudes may be out of touch with real people and maybe too focused on the hardcore gaming community here.
there is no "Gamer culture". just like there is no "movie culture". There are many different communities whose members are gamers, but gamers are not some homogenouse culture. Though i think you attack the OP for being cofused on "hardcore" gamers unfairly. After all, this is the type of gamers that are going to be reading his articles to begin with.


Drummodino said:
Can someone tell me where these female Australian gamers are? I'd love to meet some of them, but they seem a lot less common than us male Aussie gamers. I think I met one female gamer when I lived in a college boarding house out of about 215 residents.
Ive seen studies that tried to adress this. The findings were interesting. Majority of self-identified gamer males put gaming among top 3 priorities in their life, whereas females usually preferred stuff like shopping for clothes before games but still identified themselves as gamers. This lower priority for games may cause them to be less active in meeting other gamers.

Karadalis said:
Mind you thats just a theory but it would explain why female protagonists never really cought on in the big budget games market.

They are not mysoginistic or sexist because they have an agenda... they are chicken shits that dont want to risk alienating their rather fickle core audience from wich they know will definatly buy their games if they pander to them.
not much of a theory. for example this article http://usabilitynews.org/video-games-males-prefer-violence-while-females-prefer-social/ decribe part of it. i dont know the link now but there was an extensive study couple years back posted on the escapist that tried to cypher genders and genres and the genres that AAA industry dominates were dominated by male players. Except RPGs, those had quite a lot of females.

And they tried making games with female protagonists before. they didnt do well financially though. It took very long even for Mirrors Edge to get profitable.

Galen Marek said:
This data is actually pretty valuable to Triple A publishers. It tells them to change their business model and target audience and where they produce their games, which they are doing. Go figure.
No its not. This data is useless for AAA publishers. it shows aboslutely nothing about their audience, only general gaming. They already are targeting the audience that buys their games. Otherwise they wouldnt sell so well.

Yosharian said:
people who turn zelda on for 1 hour are still gamers. different type of gamers, but gamers nonetheless. what we need however is a study that differentiates the types instead of putting them all together. the study we got here is completely useless. Its like saying half of worlds population is female and thinking this means anything other than biology.
There is also a need to remove the problem with self-identification. ive seen people who go "i turned computer on by myself in class today, im such a nerd" NO YOU ARE NOT.

BiH-Kira said:
marurder said:
Whether you like it or not, there is a huge difference between real gamer and those who occasionally play a smartphone game.
Or are you telling me that a person who buy a post stamp once in the blue moon to send a letter is a stamp collector? Someone who watches a movie on TV once every few weeks is a moviegoer? Someone who read 3 books in their life is a bookworm? Someone who took a photography with his phone is a photographer? I'm not a cook for making myself a sandwich, nor am I a gourmand for eating breakfast, launch and dinner.
False equivalence. Let me correct you here:
There is a huge difference between "Hardcore" gamer and a regular gamer.
There is also a difference between stamp collector and stamp user.
Im sure by now you can make a connection.
Us regular gamers are a subspecies of the gamer genus.


ron1n said:
Really though, I just wish we could get past the whole 'gamer' tag all together. I mean, the medium is as common as film or television now, and we don't call people who watch tv 'watchers' so why 'gamers'?
well, to be honest, i do personally identify as tv/movie watcher. and i do watch a lot of them. Minimum 3 movies per week.

iseko said:
To people who disagree: sorry but you are wrong. Playing angry birds on your smartphone does not make you a gamer. Just as making a tornado in a bottle does not make you a scientist! There are arbitrary lines that define someone as a gamer but really, angry birds is not it. I wonder how many of the female gamers just play farmsville and then go: I'm such a gamer. I reply: no you're not. You know why? You refer to COD as: the one with all the guns. And Mass effect as: star wars? And strangely starcraft: also star wars?

If you cannot bring forth a very limited description of modern AAA games then you are not a gamer. That is where I draw my line. You don't even have to play them (personally for me COD can go fuck itself) but you need to know what they are.
You're wrong. See, two can play this game!
If you play games you are a gamer. thats it. There is no other requirement to being a gamer. you may not like it, but that does not matter. that is simple a fact. Gamers are people who play games. Therefore, playing games make you a gamer. Oh and angry birds and farmville are very much games. You do know that NASA made physics engine of angry birds (well they helped anyway). And people can sit for many hours on their farms just like you can sit in your COD. and if you call farmville not a game ill call COD not a game since all you do is press "w" and shoot people. there your playing COD. or better yet, lets pick Counter Strike. essentialy the games mechanics is pressing w and aiming/shooting. yet there are tournaments with millions in prizes. So what makes this game more "Real" than the farmville that is more complex than your COD or CS? the answer is whining of the gamers. Just because you dont think its a real game does not make it true.
Adeptus Aspartem said:
Meh, someone that lables himself as a "gamer" is more to me, than just someone how durdles around on his cellphone for 5min waiting on the bus.

Gettin' a free bungee-jump/skydive on your birthday doesn't make you an extreme sports nut. Jogging once a week doesn't make you an athlete. Playing for 5min doesn't make you a "gamer" in the sense of a hobbyist.
I know that's an unpopular opinion nowadays, but that's just how it is to me.
ah, more false equivalences.
Jogging once a week makes you a jogger. Just like gaming once a week makes you a gamer. Athlete equivalence would be gaming enthusiast.

-----------------More added-------------

SimpleThunda said:
It's the difference between someone who plays soccer multiple times a week or even daily as a hobby or a profession, and someone who plays football during the break of school because there's nothing better to do.
Would you call the latter a soccer player? Ofcourse not.

This is not about who you are going to call "a gamer", but about statistics that have no substance, because there's no distinction made between these two groups of people.
Ofcourse yes, which is why your whole post is incorrect.
ANd if this is about statistics that have no substance ( i agree here) then why did you spent your entire post trying to tell us what is a "Real gamer"?

Jamash said:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5410

In a Gamefaqs poll of 38691 people, just 7.58% claimed to be female.

Broken down for Australia, 8.09% were female, which is a lot less than the 47% this poll is claiming.

There's quite a big contrast between the results of the two polls, so I wonder which source is more accurate and shows truer representation of the Games industry as a whole.
see, the problem is, this poll is that of Gamfaqs users and not of gamers. Not all gamers use gamefaqs, therefore making this pool much less reliable. It is very likely famefaqs ponder to specific audience with its content that skews the results (i use the site myself and it does seem to be very much methodical faqs centric)

Jamash said:
How inaccurate can a simple binary poll be?
Very. Because there is no methodology against population bias. For example go to chinatown and ask what ethnicity people are. Very likely, vast majority with be asian. Now, to assume whole new york is mostly asian based on that would be very inaccurate.

crazy_coug99 said:
Setting aside the definition of 'gamer,' I find these findings similar to the US statistics of gamers. Of course I may be mistaken but I wanna say close to 50% of gamers are female and the average age is late 20s to early 30s. Which reflect this article.
The US statistics is 45% and average age of 30. Yes the findings are close.

Yosharian said:
Depends on how often you play those games. If you own your own Xbox and you regularly play FIFA, then yeah you're a gamer. If you occasionally play FIFA while at your mate's house but otherwise aren't interested, then no.
What if i regullary play travian (think farmville if you dont know what it is). why am i no longer a gamer even if i spend exact same effort as a person you just called a gamer?

Karadalis said:
Those have been presented to the market before and they where all rejected kept for lara and samus.
funny how you singled out two sucesfull female protagonists that are more known about their boob progression between games and "that game character i want to fuck" than the games themselves.

wulfy42 said:
That makes them casual gamers I guess....but not "gamers" as in the kind of people who go to a store and buy a gaming system, buy physical games to put into a system etc.
Congratulations on your post number 666.
Also apparently i am no longer a gamer because i dont buy physical copies of games. Thank you for being allknowing god and deciding for us who is and isnt a gamer.

BoogieManFL said:
To me there are 3 kinds of "Gamers"

Social network game players / Phone game app players
Gamers who play very few or only one genre of games, such as MMOs or sports games.
Then the hardcore gamers who play a wide variety of different genres
And what if i fit in all 3 categories? oh no, your categorizing seems to be wrong.

Eri said:
Playing Farmville or Candy Crush does not make you a gamer. Just like going to a movie doesn't make you a film buff, or taking a photo on your phone means photography is your hobby.
and even more false equivalences.
playing farmville definatelly makes you a gamer. playing candy crush makes you mroe thna that - a supporter of king, but thats another topic. Going to a movie does make you a moviegoer. you know, its in the damn name of the thing. you dont want gamers. you want game enthusiasts to be the only ones playing games, and that is wrong.

Shamanic Rhythm said:
Based on the general tone of responses in this thread, I'm starting to think hardcore gamers need their own 'Do you even lift' meme.

'Do you even grind', 'Do you even quickscope', 'Do you even make your own PC' all come to mind.
all 3 you mention are actually already memes. especialyl the quickscope one.

Ihateregistering1 said:
By the definition here, my mom is a gamer because she plays Scrabble with friends on her IPad, but if you ask her if what she's looking forward to more: the release of Dark Souls 2 or Lords of Shadow 2, you'll pretty quickly figure out just how meaningless the title really is.
i probably rack more hours on my PC than majority here and i spend up to 4 hours every day socializing with gamers on forums like these. yet i am looking for neither of the games you mention and i dont even know what lords of shadow is. Your measurement of gamer is crap.

MaximumTheHormone said:
nobody cares who's playing farmville, they care about who's playing the latest triple A titles
Oh, they care. They care because farmville is more profitable than any AAA game.

Hixy said:
Yeah but the ''real'' gamers are the ones who drop all the money,
if "real" gamers are gamers who drop the most money then the only real gamers are mobile gamers.

ultreos2 said:
Now I'll bet I could name a hundred good games, that most people would agree are good, quality games, some would even call masterpieces. I have doubts there are any games on mobile save plants versus zombies and Angry Birds that would be called masterpieces by anyone.
i couldnt name 100, mainly because i havent even played 100 mobile games to begin with, but there are games other than the two you mention. i would call Hill Climb Racing a masterpiece.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Shanicus said:
I wasn't talking about 'society' and it's views on gamers, though. I was talking about how gamers themselves view and judge other gamers (why there is so much discussion around what constitutes a gamer) and the imbalances between what makes men and women 'gamers' - in my experience a dude is a gamer if he's got an Xbox and 3 games whereas female gamers are held to a much higher 'standard' and need a significantly larger amount of evidence to prove that they are a gamer (let alone the fact that they have to 'prove' being a gamer while it's often assumed of a guy...).
How gamers view themselves is directly affected by how society treats them and views them.

I don't hold girls to a higher standard - if a girl owns an xbox and 3 games and actually plays them regularly, she's a gamer.

I can't think of anyone I know who would accuse such a girl of not being a gamer.

Shanicus said:
Some of the girl gamers I know wouldn't have marked themselves as 'gamers' on this type of survey entirely because dudebros have told them explicitly that they 'aren't a gamer' despite playing Warcraft III on a daily basis, while some of the guys I know would have signed as 'Gamers' because they played that CoD game at a mates house that one time.
Well that's a shame. Like I said, I don't know anyone like that (the dudebros).

Shanicus said:
The problem I have with your assumption is that it well... assumes a lot about female gamers and their playing habits by cutting 30% off due to either a) playing 'casual' games, b) not playing games often enough and c) not 'seriously' gaming.
Of course they are assumptions. But I think they are safe assumptions grounded in reality.

Shanicus said:
Now, we may be operating on different ideas of what constitutes a gamer (I would consider my mother a 'Gamer' because she plays both casual games quite extensively and occasionally fires up the Wii to game), but the fact that you take 20% off for playing casual games makes me question it due to the fact that you can play 'casual' games at a 'serious' level.
The Wii is not a casual gaming system generally, but if all you do is 'play' the fitness game for example, that might not really be gaming. If she plays Zelda or whatever then she's probably a gamer.

The party games don't really count because they're not serious games, and yes I said a game is a game. They're games, obviously, but I don't consider them serious games. The 'game is a game' comment was more about what we should call casual games - they're definitely games, that's all.

Shanicus said:
It's more 'Female Gamers aren't playing 'serious' games because they're alienating' than anything else - why I mention the casual game thing.
Most mainstream games are bound to be alienating - they're made for guys (i.e. the main audience).

Shanicus said:
And if a game is a game, why did you take off 20% of the base number for 'playing what gamers wouldn't even consider to be real games'? That's... contradictory to your own assumption more than anything.
It's not contradictory. The difference is they're both games but one of them is not-serious and the other is serious.

Shanicus said:
From everything I've seen women can get into gaming really easily and do have an interest in gaming itself, it's just the games industry doesn't give two shits because it's easier to make money appealing to the douchebro instead. I can believe that 47% of aussie gamers are chicks because there are a large amount of girls who do actually play games, it's just they either play casual games or just don't talk about it because assholes exist.
Of course the game industry doesn't give two shits - they, unlike many people reading this survey, aren't fooled by the it and know full well that the vast majority of gamers are male. They are bound to make games for the common demographic, because they are primarily interested in making money.

One of the 'gamer chicks' I knew the most was always interested in a variety of games such as Diablo 2, Team Fortress Classic, Dragon Age, etc. In Diablo 2 she played a Hammerdin. In TF2 she played an engineer. She is a gamer.

I can't believe that 47% of females in any country are gamers.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Hixy said:
Yeah but the ''real'' gamers are the ones who drop all the money, which is why companies target them, which is why games are still primarily targeted at adult males.
If that's true, why are so many companies targeting the casual/mobile market?
Just so you are not taking me out of context the point of that post was in reply to someone who said that because it showed 47% of Australian gamers to be female it would help shape future games based on the fact that about half the audience is female. I said that is not true because the lions share of the market for 2014 (50 billion projected) is consoles which I argue is predominantly male. Saying that 47% of gamers are women is fine but if that just means as I said, Farmville and Sims or similar things, you can probably remove them for the most part from that 50 billion of revenue, they probably don't own a console. Which is why AAA titles will still be aimed at males. The projections for mobile games are 17 billion (which I was shocked at I must admit) and growing. However I believe that is based on mobile gaming becoming better developed. Once it gets to the level where it becomes acceptable to ''hardcores'' that too will become male dominated and the releases will reflect that.

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2614915 I would be interested to see more of a breakdown, is it more free to play games or is it people buying games etc..

This opinion is based on my own experience on PC and xbox live (about 8 years of it) far far less than 1% of players I ever interacted with were female. Granted I can't tell you the sex of everyone in every lobby I was ever in but if there are so many, should I not have run into a lot more ??
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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ultreos2 said:
[

Because they see there is a buck to be made, and the cost of making a game on the casual platform is an extremely low cost to profit ratio.
Then your argument doesn't hold up.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
ultreos2 said:
[

Because they see there is a buck to be made, and the cost of making a game on the casual platform is an extremely low cost to profit ratio.
Then your argument doesn't hold up.
Oh? Then tell me why it doesn't? What is your reasoning of this assertion?

Why not name some quality games? Or was that too much?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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ultreos2 said:
What is your reasoning of this assertion?
You're trying to rationalise arbitrary differences.

Since you're the one making the assertion, I don't need to do anything else. The burden of proof was on you, and you failed to meet it.
 

Steven Bogos

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Jan 17, 2013
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Zachary Amaranth said:
ultreos2 said:
What is your reasoning of this assertion?
You're trying to rationalise arbitrary differences.

Since you're the one making the assertion, I don't need to do anything else. The burden of proof was on you, and you failed to meet it.
Ah but you did make an assertion, you asserted that developers were rushing to the mobile device market, in the form of if another statement was true, why are developers rushing to the mobile device market.

And then I stated, it is because they see an opportunity to make a quick buck. I back up this example by speaking of quality. Given the scope and scale and sheer quantity of games on the mobile device platform, if your assertion was true about developers rushing to the new market for anything other then a quick buck, we would have more then a few examples of quality gaming.

Which ones would you like to talk about? Re releases of 16 bit era RPGs from Square Enix which I hear have shoddy controls at best, and I couldn't even get to run on my device. Or the RPG Square Enix made where it had you using Hero's from past 16 Bit Era Games Sprites that you from what I hear, have to pay to even advance in the game in any meaningful way from what I understand?

So if these developers are flocking to greet this booming market for anything other then making a quick buck, you would think to expect some form of similar quality to the console market. There would be more examples of quality games, not just time wasters.

Now don't get me wrong, time wasters have their place, but let's be honest here, I could go into that, re-make solitaire with some new card back designs, come up with a slightly different way to play solitaire, and put it on the market for .99 cents, and depending on when I put it up, and where it showed up on the market at the time of release, and including time of day, and by saying it has a new way to play solitaire, I could potentially get 100k downloads within a day.

And do you know why? Human Mindset. I like Solitaire, this is Solitaire, ooh? It has a new way to play? Ooh? Different card designs? Click, buy.

What? Don't believe me? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tesseractmobile.solitairemulti&hl=en

This has 50k+ Downloads at 2.99. Developers are flocking to this market to make a quick buck. This has nothing to do with the "Evolution of gaming" or pandering to a "New Market" and doing things better for gamers everywhere. This has everything to do with making a quick buck. It's cheap, it makes money for a low investment price, so the risk to reward ratio is there, and best of all, it sells to all the mobile gamers out there using free downloads, and purchasing those nice little "extras"

Look at a game called Monster Warlord. It literally makes millions of dollars. Does it look nice? Yes. Can you advance in the game without putting out any money? Yes. Will you give them Money Because you want that sweet sweet Monster? Yes. Will you realize one day that it is a game you can never become even close to the ranks of top 50 unless you literally drop thousands of dollars to get up to that point, and is a game that you can never really win, and people are only competing with their wallets? You bet! I could go make a Yahoo Club, and create an RPG set of rules, and make a better interactive and meaningful experience then what this game gives people. It suckers you in, it is not meant to be a meaningful experience, you can click a lot of buttons to be sure in different menus, but your options really are only, click buttons. You don't even control the actions of your monsters, you can control the nifty bonus you receive however. Such as your attack Damage is boosted by 5% if this monster is your leader.

But hey if you STILL don't believe me that all they are trying to do is make a quick buck at this point, as opposed to delivering a quality game experience. Take a look at the general markets pricing model for games. You won't be finding too many non free games. You will also find ads in almost every single one of those free games, as well as almost completely necessary items to advance in some instances, and completely necessary items to advance in others.

What's worse? You can spend 200 dollars and still not have the whole games experience.

So you tell me. Is this a quality game experience they are trying to deliver? Or a short sighted grab for cash, with an unreliable monetizing method. Or perhaps, it is a reliable monetizing method because there are just that many idiots out there willing to throw money into the abyss?

Hell it could be genius, but quality? Not so much. You want to know what other companies do these types of tactics? Casinos. Do you really think they're trying to deliver you a quality game? Or are they repackaging it and making it a little more flashy and saying oh look new and improved game? Sure they make it seem better, but their goal is, or rather would be short sighted because it isn't designed to be a quality experience, it's designed to make a buck, and sometimes make people lose everything.

So yes my friend. Developers are flocking to the mobile market. But for no reasons that are good for the gaming community at large.
 

Batou667

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This study really needed a breakdown of the demographics by age and gender to be meaningful (hell, it doesn't even mention whether the average age is the mean or the median). Just pointing out that almost half of gamers are women is meaningless, and that statistic can be abused to make silly arguments like "look, half of your userbase is female, so why aren't half of the characters in CoD female, hmmm?" If it turned out that females only actually make up, say, 5% of the military shooter gamerbase, that'd provide a very different message to the devs/publishers.
 

Wyatt Wilkerson

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Dec 16, 2013
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all this talk about "real gamers" the gaming community should be happy that people are enjoying games i think its good that games are entering the mainstream to the point where anyone can enjoy a game even if its not a game in the sense of what most people consider games the important part is that people can enjoy a game.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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But they ARNT RL GAMURRRRRRRZ?!?!?

*sigh*

We really should stop this, you know.
I refuse to believe that I and the other lovely ladies of the Escapist are unicorns. We're not that rare and we don't sit around playing casual games all day.
If someone plays games, and says they are a gamer- why do we need to jump on them and draw lines?
I have friends who BARELY play games anymore, wouldn't manage to even START Dark Souls, and have very little 'nerd-cred'.
But nobody feels the need to jump on them and demand they `PROVE THEIR WORTH`. It's fine that they identify as gamers.
... They're all guys.

Do we really wonder why ladies hide on online matches? C'mon. Really?
You guys don't know? You're confused?
I don't buy it.

Drummodino said:
Tigerlily Warrior said:
My suggestion, when you're talking with girls, bring up gaming and see if they bite or get a blank look on their face. I'd say there's a better chance you finding a girl who plays games as you would finding a girl that's a sports junkie. Like other hobbies people think as male-dominated, we're out there, you just have to ask.
I have tried talking about games with girls before and I usually get the blank face reaction, or they try and shift the conversation to another topic. Apart from the one girl I mentioned in my post, the most I ever found was a girl who played Plants vs Zombies. I guess I'm just unlucky, but I've never had a problem finding a guy to discuss gaming with.
To be fair, I have done the blank face before.
Usually it's if I've recently had a run in with the Nerd Police and I don't feel like doing the whole `Oh you play? You don't look like it` dance.

But that's only very rarely- really, I'd love it if guys talked to me about games, but they never do. So I would encourage people to bring it up even if you don't think they play. You never know.
When I do talk about games with guys, it's almost always me who brings it up (and then I find out they only play CoD or Madden.... *sigh*).
 

wAriot

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Jan 18, 2013
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My whole family and pretty much all of my friends play games. Me and a couple of my friends are the only ones with actual knowledge of them. Saying "I'm a gamer" is a blank statement that means nothing, because nowadays everyone is.

We need a new word for "real gamers", since that expression is so unwelcome. Not everyone that watches movies is a cinephile. Not everyone that reads books is a bibliophile. Not everyone that owns a car is a car enthusiast.

Wyatt Wilkerson said:
all this talk about "real gamers" the gaming community should be happy that people are enjoying games i think its good that games are entering the mainstream to the point where anyone can enjoy a game even if its not a game in the sense of what most people consider games the important part is that people can enjoy a game.
If you have no interest in gaming aside from just playing video games, there is no problem, but when you also want to discuss a bit of video game history, the state of the industry, the best stories, music or characters you've ever played, etc., it'd be preferable if the self-considered "gamer" you're discussing with has a bit more experience than just Farmville, Flappy Bird and Call of Duty 35. You know, to have an actual discussion, and not just a monologue.