View From The Road: Ubisoft Needs To Use a Carrot
- Thread starter John Funk
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I got Assassin's Creed II on a console, and I love the game, but seriously, if I didn't have a console there would be no way in hell I'd buy it for the PC. I moved in fall last year and I had to go without internet for three months, it was painful by itself. I hate how DRM these days seems to be edging me closer to making my games unplayable without internet. Until we have internet for free everywhere in the world (which I'm guessing will be never) I don't want to be forced to be connected to the internet for my games.
And what the heck happened to Ubisoft? They used to be cool. Now they're the next evil company on the block.
And what the heck happened to Ubisoft? They used to be cool. Now they're the next evil company on the block.
Publishers also need to realize that piracy isn't some technical problem that must be fixed with programs.
Its more of a social problem.
If you act like an ass, people see themselves as stealing from an ass. If you act like a cool guy, people will see them stealing from a cool guy, which will cause quite a few people to think about what they're doing and not steal from you.
And let developers interact with their fans more.
Who would you be more willing to steal from; An arrogant corporate executive, or the person who designed HK-47 and has kids to feed?
Its more of a social problem.
If you act like an ass, people see themselves as stealing from an ass. If you act like a cool guy, people will see them stealing from a cool guy, which will cause quite a few people to think about what they're doing and not steal from you.
And let developers interact with their fans more.
Who would you be more willing to steal from; An arrogant corporate executive, or the person who designed HK-47 and has kids to feed?
Hey, I'll say what I've said before:
If they want to seriously reduce piracy AND used game sales, all they need to do is lower the game prices. Make it so it's not worth the effort.
I know we disagree on a lot of things, but *I* think a good part of the problem is that the gaming industry isn't "people bringing home a check to feed their families". It's increasingly corperate with increasingly huge payouts both for developers and producers. People playing "keeping up with the Riches" rather than simply making a living, or even simply becoming rich and successful. Any way you look at it we're dealing with millions upon millions of dollars that don't go to hardware or office space that winds up in the hands of the human resources one way or another. We also don't have any shortage of people who are willing to hand out those mega-millions of dollars to pay developers, mainly because they receive massive returns on their investments.
Heck, if some guy can just walk into a store and plop down $20 and walk out with the newest game the appeal of finding and downloading a torrent or whatever reduces considerably. By the same token when the game is only selling for $20 it doesn't leave too much room for a cut-rate used game market.
What's more it seems to have been shown that piracy has a minimal impact on the sales game companies are making. Not every pirate would be buying a new copy of a game given the option. Ditto for those who purchuse things used.
Heck, if instead of spending all that money developing killer DRM, maintaining DRM servers, creating $10 "incentive" content, and all of that was simply taken out of the prices of the games, I think that would increase sales more than the "protection" does.
That's just my opinion though. The pirates will never disappear, but I think the amount of piracy can be reduced... albiet not with these methods. To "win" the industry has to do the one thing they aren't putting on the table, and pretty much become a lot less greedy themselves.
I also think Kotaku ran an interesting article on Piracy and such:
http://ca.kotaku.com/5533615/another-view-of-video-game-piracy
I don't entirely agree with them, but they make some good points.
I think part of the problem is that the industry doesn't listen to things like that because they want to dismiss anything that they don't want to hear as "filthy pirate sympathizers" or whatever.
Also, I tend to think that part of the problem is also that people in the games industry have created lives for themselves that require massive profiteering to maintain. Some dude making a fortune isn't going to want to give up his 200' party Yacht no matter what you say, things pretty much have to crash on those guys before they "give up" their stuff. While many disagree, I think one of the issues people have to realize when argueing about the game industry is that I don't think the perception some people are fed that these guys are "making money to feed their families" is accurate. Heck, I don't even mind a lot of these guys being rich. However looking at some of the money in these game budgets that goes towards human resources, I think we're dealing with the kind of guys who belong on an MTV lifestyles program.
If they want to seriously reduce piracy AND used game sales, all they need to do is lower the game prices. Make it so it's not worth the effort.
I know we disagree on a lot of things, but *I* think a good part of the problem is that the gaming industry isn't "people bringing home a check to feed their families". It's increasingly corperate with increasingly huge payouts both for developers and producers. People playing "keeping up with the Riches" rather than simply making a living, or even simply becoming rich and successful. Any way you look at it we're dealing with millions upon millions of dollars that don't go to hardware or office space that winds up in the hands of the human resources one way or another. We also don't have any shortage of people who are willing to hand out those mega-millions of dollars to pay developers, mainly because they receive massive returns on their investments.
Heck, if some guy can just walk into a store and plop down $20 and walk out with the newest game the appeal of finding and downloading a torrent or whatever reduces considerably. By the same token when the game is only selling for $20 it doesn't leave too much room for a cut-rate used game market.
What's more it seems to have been shown that piracy has a minimal impact on the sales game companies are making. Not every pirate would be buying a new copy of a game given the option. Ditto for those who purchuse things used.
Heck, if instead of spending all that money developing killer DRM, maintaining DRM servers, creating $10 "incentive" content, and all of that was simply taken out of the prices of the games, I think that would increase sales more than the "protection" does.
That's just my opinion though. The pirates will never disappear, but I think the amount of piracy can be reduced... albiet not with these methods. To "win" the industry has to do the one thing they aren't putting on the table, and pretty much become a lot less greedy themselves.
I also think Kotaku ran an interesting article on Piracy and such:
http://ca.kotaku.com/5533615/another-view-of-video-game-piracy
I don't entirely agree with them, but they make some good points.
I think part of the problem is that the industry doesn't listen to things like that because they want to dismiss anything that they don't want to hear as "filthy pirate sympathizers" or whatever.
Also, I tend to think that part of the problem is also that people in the games industry have created lives for themselves that require massive profiteering to maintain. Some dude making a fortune isn't going to want to give up his 200' party Yacht no matter what you say, things pretty much have to crash on those guys before they "give up" their stuff. While many disagree, I think one of the issues people have to realize when argueing about the game industry is that I don't think the perception some people are fed that these guys are "making money to feed their families" is accurate. Heck, I don't even mind a lot of these guys being rich. However looking at some of the money in these game budgets that goes towards human resources, I think we're dealing with the kind of guys who belong on an MTV lifestyles program.
Great article - I would say that this is why STEAM (and, to some degree, Impulse) has been successful. It's DRM, but it makes life convenient and easy and offers everything you want.
EA's Bioware games have been taking steps in this direction too. Although I suspect their reasoning is less about piracy and more about preventing second hand game sales, it's still accomplishing the same thing.
EA's Bioware games have been taking steps in this direction too. Although I suspect their reasoning is less about piracy and more about preventing second hand game sales, it's still accomplishing the same thing.
The "DLC and other cosmetic goodies" argument is total bullshit. They're cracked just as easily as the gmaes themselves.
The rest of your arguments were not that bad, save for the fact that alot of this stuff can be done by the pirates. Being able to install on any machine? Pirates have that. Infinite installs? Got that too. Optional cloud savegames are the only thing you mentioned that they can really offer.
The rest of your arguments were not that bad, save for the fact that alot of this stuff can be done by the pirates. Being able to install on any machine? Pirates have that. Infinite installs? Got that too. Optional cloud savegames are the only thing you mentioned that they can really offer.
You know what's funny? Hearing the pirate crackers saying the exact same thing ages ago over and over and over.
Isn't this exactly what they said when they cracked AC2? "Focus on making a better game next time rather than a DRM that hurts your customers?" Ring any bells yet?!
Bottom line is the same. If it takes more resources to develop systems of security than it does to crack them, then DRM will fail. Developing the systems takes money and time, pirates that crack them don't do it for the money and they've got tonnes more time than the developers.
Hilariously enough, this article states the exact same thing that the pirates have always stated. But I imagine people won't catch on anytime soon and we'll be seeing more corporate apologists who feel they need to 'compete with' or 'persecute' piracy rather than to do the much wiser thing - ignore it.
Isn't this exactly what they said when they cracked AC2? "Focus on making a better game next time rather than a DRM that hurts your customers?" Ring any bells yet?!
Bottom line is the same. If it takes more resources to develop systems of security than it does to crack them, then DRM will fail. Developing the systems takes money and time, pirates that crack them don't do it for the money and they've got tonnes more time than the developers.
Hilariously enough, this article states the exact same thing that the pirates have always stated. But I imagine people won't catch on anytime soon and we'll be seeing more corporate apologists who feel they need to 'compete with' or 'persecute' piracy rather than to do the much wiser thing - ignore it.
Sigh.Therumancer said:
How dare skilled workers with college degrees in an obscenely competitive industry make ~80k? Face it, dude - that's really not an unreasonable salary at all, and a disproportionate share of the profits going to management is by no means limited to the games industry - you'll find it in pretty much every corporation here in the West.
Every single developer I have ever met lives a pretty damn modest life. You have no evidence to support your claims other than "this is how I think it is," when all the evidence I have ever seen supports the latter - there is not nearly as much profit in games development as you think there is. I'm sorry, Chicken Little, but I have seen nothing ever to suggest that the sky is falling. Yes, executives like West and Zampella make millions. Executives at ANY company with that sort of revenue make millions.
Games used to be much more expensive, especially considering inflation. We get it. We get it. You don't think they're worth it, fine. Then stop buying them already. Meanwhile, the rest of us who find satisfactory value in them will continue to support the developers we like.
Great article. However, if Shamus Young writes an article about World of Warcraft for Friday, I'll know the universe has collapsed in on itself.
I do like how simple you worded the solution. As long as the legitimate copy is better than the pirated copy, its a success. I'm glad a few developers and publishers have realized that this is the key, and hopefully more start to join in and we can say goodbye to malicious DRM.
I do like how simple you worded the solution. As long as the legitimate copy is better than the pirated copy, its a success. I'm glad a few developers and publishers have realized that this is the key, and hopefully more start to join in and we can say goodbye to malicious DRM.
If piracy really had anything to do with stealing from "bad guys" or "large corporations", then we wouldn't see it on things like the Humble Indie Bundle. There is no way to justify that one, except that you don't have a credit card. I think these types of claims tend to people trying to justify doing something they know is wrong. Also, especially when it comes to larger companies, for each guy with a name and face we know there's a handful of smaller employees who aren't getting rich off every game.
I'm a big fan of anti-piracy schemes like project $10 (when they don't add that extra crap), and make a point of supporting developers who use it. On the other hand, I'm not buying anything from Ubisoft for a while.
I'm a big fan of anti-piracy schemes like project $10 (when they don't add that extra crap), and make a point of supporting developers who use it. On the other hand, I'm not buying anything from Ubisoft for a while.
Piracy is a complicated especially here in Australia where games sell for an average of $100.
Then you get poor games with often 8 hours of content in them.
Personally I think second hand games is a far worse problem than out and out piracy, the publishes still dont get the cash and the retailer gets a payday twice.
See with piracy there are two types, those who are unsure and want to reduce the risk and those who are too poor to buy the game anyway (students etc) who probably wouldn't buy the game (not at $100). Chances are neither of those people would buy the game anyways.
I have never heard of anyone who has the money, trusts the publisher and likes the idea of the content pirating the game.
Meanwhile that same person may very well buy a second hand copy to save $20 or $30 bucks.
Resulting in someone who would buy the game effectively not (from the publishers point of view).
Providing carrots is nice, I love Bioware's portal where you can register games you have brought and it puts up stats tells you about DLC and generally combines your bioware library.
And I know for a fact bad drm has stopped me buying a game (often I didn't pirate it either I just refused to buy it) prime example is assassins creed II. But if publishers do not fix the risk versus reward ratio, that is the amount of money it costs versus the likely hood it is a good game with a good level of content people will never stop pirating to some level.
Then you get poor games with often 8 hours of content in them.
Personally I think second hand games is a far worse problem than out and out piracy, the publishes still dont get the cash and the retailer gets a payday twice.
See with piracy there are two types, those who are unsure and want to reduce the risk and those who are too poor to buy the game anyway (students etc) who probably wouldn't buy the game (not at $100). Chances are neither of those people would buy the game anyways.
I have never heard of anyone who has the money, trusts the publisher and likes the idea of the content pirating the game.
Meanwhile that same person may very well buy a second hand copy to save $20 or $30 bucks.
Resulting in someone who would buy the game effectively not (from the publishers point of view).
Providing carrots is nice, I love Bioware's portal where you can register games you have brought and it puts up stats tells you about DLC and generally combines your bioware library.
And I know for a fact bad drm has stopped me buying a game (often I didn't pirate it either I just refused to buy it) prime example is assassins creed II. But if publishers do not fix the risk versus reward ratio, that is the amount of money it costs versus the likely hood it is a good game with a good level of content people will never stop pirating to some level.
I couldn't agree more.
The AC2 system is similar to prison discipline systems;
These were designed to keep inmates in check with a minimal amount of guards. The main idea is that when one inmate breaks the rules, his entire block may be punished.
This creates an atmosphere where inmates watch their fellow convicts and keep each other in check in order to avoid punishment for themselves.
An inmate will think twice before breaking the rules, because his entire block could suffer for it, and he will be hated.
That system does not work for games.
A pirate won't feel bad when he caused a developer to add DRM to his game, because it got cracked and he's playing it. He also won't care about the thousands of strangers across the world who are punished for his actions, for he doesn't know them. He doesn't care if they hate him.
The pirate is doing exactly what he wanted to do, and since the DRM was cracked, he isn't the one being punished.
A loyal customer gets punished for the actions of people he doesn't know, actions he couldn't have avoided.
This type of system effectively punishes the innocent for the misbehaviour of others, while the ones misbehaving are left to do as they please.
What reason would there be for anyone to behave in such a prison?
Personally, if I don't want to put up with a DRM system, I simply don't buy the game. I won't pirate it, mind you, I just won't play it.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have different morals.
The AC2 system is similar to prison discipline systems;
These were designed to keep inmates in check with a minimal amount of guards. The main idea is that when one inmate breaks the rules, his entire block may be punished.
This creates an atmosphere where inmates watch their fellow convicts and keep each other in check in order to avoid punishment for themselves.
An inmate will think twice before breaking the rules, because his entire block could suffer for it, and he will be hated.
That system does not work for games.
A pirate won't feel bad when he caused a developer to add DRM to his game, because it got cracked and he's playing it. He also won't care about the thousands of strangers across the world who are punished for his actions, for he doesn't know them. He doesn't care if they hate him.
The pirate is doing exactly what he wanted to do, and since the DRM was cracked, he isn't the one being punished.
A loyal customer gets punished for the actions of people he doesn't know, actions he couldn't have avoided.
This type of system effectively punishes the innocent for the misbehaviour of others, while the ones misbehaving are left to do as they please.
What reason would there be for anyone to behave in such a prison?
Personally, if I don't want to put up with a DRM system, I simply don't buy the game. I won't pirate it, mind you, I just won't play it.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have different morals.
This. A thousand times this. As a partially reformed pirate (I pirate some, I buy some), I can tell from my own experience, that THAT is the way to go.
What turned me around the most was the Orange Box and the ability to download it and redownload it anywhere, anytime, as well as being able to play TF2 online. This was about 3 years ago. Since then, I bought both L4D1 and 2 on release.
VALVe has it right. They don't fight piracy by including Shamus Young's bear trap that takes away your legs, and quite possibly, your manlyhood. They fight it by offering an online customer service that simply works. They reward you for taking that step and paying your dues.
Actually, that's a common theme for many pirating groups, when they work with a game that comes with DRM, the whole "forget about these draconian measures and use those resources on making the game even better". It just got kind of famous thanks to the shitstorm that has accompanied AC2.Susan Arendt said:
I think people who pirate are almost always just being entitled, selfish pricks (there are some exceptions, of course - chiefly referring to people in poorer parts of the world where buying games legit is literally not an option). I will never be pro-piracy. But draconian DRM is not the solution.edthehyena said:
Better in the way of not focusing on the DRM and using that time and those resources to add something else to it or even for more trivial run-of-the-mill things, like more playtesting.Susan Arendt said:
I am not thinking of specifics of how to improve on the game. Don't get me wrong, I did not mean to say AC2 is a shitty game at all gameplay-wise. But what I am saying is that the publishers could've invested the money with the developers of the game itself instead of those who worked on their DRM system. It stands to reason that would help make the game...better!
Pirates can't make the game better. But they can crack any DRM. So...why not focus on what you can change and make your game even moreso appealing for the purchaser and ignore the things you *can't* change? And even if AC2 was indeed 'perfect' (which I doubt any game really is), heck, at this point even if they spent that money not on improving the game but in their marketing campaigns it would be money better spent than on the DRM, though - that's just buffing the hype of the game rather than its content.