Augmented Reality and LARPing: Will We Ever Get A Holodeck?

Greg Tito

PR for Dungeons & Dragons
Sep 29, 2005
12,070
0
0
Augmented Reality and LARPing: Will We Ever Get A Holodeck?



Experts in the field of augmented reality consider the core question to which we all want the answer: Is a holodeck like we saw in Star Trek: TNG ever going to be a reality?

At a thinking-man's panel at New York Comic Con called I'm from the Future and I LARP - RPGs, Augmented Reality, and You, the experts were split on whether the holodeck could actually happen, or if that's something we really even want in our gaming life. The Escapist presented the panel consisting of publisher and gaming expert Alex Macris, famed RPG and mobile game designer Greg Costikyan, and Robert Rice, who is from the future while also being an entrepreneur and consultant in the augmented reality field. The Escapist's own Senior Editor Susan Arendt started off by asking what augmented reality is all about. She supplied current example of the line of scrimmage lines on TV broadcasts of American football or the glowing hockey puck. But we're not very far off from using glasses to change the person you pass on the street into an orc if you both happen to be playing an augmented reality role-playing game.

"I think of augmented reality as using visual technology developed from or inspired by videogames to come into your real world and your everyday lives," Alex Macris said. "Whether that might be a game that knows where you are in the real world or a game that overlays fictional elements onto your real-world setting like showing a ghost when you look around the room, those would be minor current elements of augmented reality. The future would be things like a dream park or the holodeck."

Greg Costikyan disagreed. "Let's bring this back to LARPing for a minute," he said, referring to the act of Live Action Role-Playing in which players might fight with foam weapons or roleplay face-to-face with costumes and sets. "We don't need techonology for this. I read recently about a LARP run by the Dogma 99 people in Kosovo called Europa." In this LARP, people played refugees from fictional fascist Scandinavian countries while the gamemasters were the guards and justice system. "One of the basic rules of the LARP was that you could not break character for the whole three days. Just from reading some of the reactions of the people who played this game, it was one of the most emotionally affecting experiences of their lives. We can do that, and we should do more of that. We don't need technology for that."

"Augmented reality could make them all look like zombies," Robert Rice said. The man's got a point.

For Alex Macris though, it was about merging real world immersion with visual enhancement technology and he related an example from his time playing a LARP like NERO. "The sense of immersion between the fighting was very high. You had a shield, you were whaling on the other guy, he was whaling on you, you would try and parry, that was great. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, some dude would throw a beanbag at me. And then I was dead." In NERO, a beanbag denotes a spell going off like a Fireball or a Magic Missile. "The point at which my gladiatorial awesomeness was leveled by a beanbag was the point at which my immersion broke. I was like, 'That's a beanbag.'

"It's at that point that if augmented reality transformed that beanbag into scorching abysmal ball of flame that left me wetting my pants in terror, that would be pretty cool. I think we need to blend the real world and the digital, and that's why it's augmented reality and not virtual reality," Macris concluded.

One older audience member was worried that such "whiz-bang" special effects would ruin his LARPing mojo and Robert Rice countered that he was interested in creating tools. "I want to build a tool and a platform and a backend system that enables and facilitates people like you that are creative and interesting to not have to worry about how to model this whole thing in 3D or I have to program this over here," Rice said. "I want a drag and drop magical experience. So you can walk in here and if you've got a good eye and you're creative, this whole place should look like a jungle."

So there you have it. These augmented reality experts don't want to create the holodeck per se, they want to have a system that will allow LARPers to easily craft their own worlds. We will likely never lose the face-to-face interaction but augmented reality will be able to enhance how we play games. We will still have to wait for the 24th century for the holodeck, but we could be less than five years from goggles or glasses that can overlay graphics over real-world locations and provide that awesome fireball blast.

Of course, when technicians say five years, that can mean anything. Try asking engineers when some theoretical project that they are working on will be ready. "If you ask that question, their inevitable response is, 'Oh maybe five years,'" Costikyan said. "The thing you need to know is that when you are talking to an engineer and they say 'Oh maybe five years' it means they have no fucking clue."













Permalink
 

Mr.Squishy

New member
Apr 14, 2009
1,990
0
0
Sounds interesting, especially considering the whole "craft your own world" thing could be very useful for writers..
 

phoenix352

New member
Mar 29, 2009
605
0
0
if they can merge those augmenting reality glasses with real seeing glasses that be fantastic...

iam sure street fighter 12ultra blaze 2 will be awesome when 80% of the people use real looking hadukens in real life...
 

SmugFrog

Ribbit
Sep 4, 2008
1,239
4
43
I had an idea that is similar in nature to this, about 10 years ago.

Do you remember when toys that interacted with the environment came out? I remember one specifically that was a gun that would register "enemies" that would display on walls and such that were displayed via a light. It was a very primitive concept.

My idea was: Wouldn't it be awesome if you had 3D glasses, and a miniature CPU running that would interact with your environment and overlay "monsters" and such over real life object? Suddenly the car becomes a dragon, etc.
 

Requx

New member
Mar 28, 2010
378
0
0
The thing I never got was movement, with technology today its all possible but how do you recreate the sensation of walking?
 

theSovietConnection

Survivor, VDNKh Station
Jan 14, 2009
2,418
0
0
Requx said:
The thing I never got was movement, with technology today its all possible but how do you recreate the sensation of walking?
My best guess would be a conveyer-style floor, that moves with you as you walk.
 

twaddle

New member
Nov 17, 2009
1,327
0
0
theSovietConnection said:
Requx said:
The thing I never got was movement, with technology today its all possible but how do you recreate the sensation of walking?
My best guess would be a conveyer-style floor, that moves with you as you walk.
My suggestion, use motion sensors with the glasses that way you could walk in place or run in place and let the environment move in the glasses. It would work the with wrist and leg bands like they have with....well...motion capture when making games.
 

cerebus23

New member
May 16, 2010
1,275
0
0
i think on trek they explained it all away with forcfields that acted like a type of treadmill in the holodecks so you could walk or run or jump etc and the forcfields would keep you in place or let you "jump" down off a cliff or something.

any time soon if we got a holodeck it probably would be a room with 3d screens or some holographic projection but you would not have the fancy convoluted forcefields to allow you do do whatever you want.

even treadmills would be somewhat impractical since they would have to be able to anticipate your movements and adjust speed direction etc to compensate your movements.

first applications of the closest thing to holodecks would probably be in the military with flight simulators and the like. any fixed position or seat and 3d or holo tech would be an ideal format. but a full free roaming holodeck like tng is probably pie in the sky lest any century soon.
 

Dogstile

New member
Jan 17, 2009
5,093
0
0
I like the idea of that actually. As long as the effects don't look too cheesy.
 

silver wolf009

[[NULL]]
Jan 23, 2010
3,432
0
0
Ironiclly, my friend just asked me, not 15 minutes ago if I wanted to go larping.


OT: If holodecks were ever created, the entire universe would expand and contract incredibly fast because of the amount of awesome that would be released.
 

theSovietConnection

Survivor, VDNKh Station
Jan 14, 2009
2,418
0
0
twaddle said:
theSovietConnection said:
Requx said:
The thing I never got was movement, with technology today its all possible but how do you recreate the sensation of walking?
My best guess would be a conveyer-style floor, that moves with you as you walk.
My suggestion, use motion sensors with the glasses that way you could walk in place or run in place and let the environment move in the glasses. It would work the with wrist and leg bands like they have with....well...motion capture when making games.
Hmm, not a bad idea. Only real problem with it I can see is getting too into the game and forgetting to stay in place. Maybe combine it with a harness to keep you suspended and off the floor?
 

twaddle

New member
Nov 17, 2009
1,327
0
0
theSovietConnection said:
twaddle said:
theSovietConnection said:
Requx said:
The thing snip
snip
snip
Hmm, not a bad idea. Only real problem with it I can see is getting too into the game and forgetting to stay in place. Maybe combine it with a harness to keep you suspended and off the floor?
i think that would be a little to impractical. How about 4 perimeter sensors. you can you can set them up for a little or as much space as you want or need. Each sensor will represent a corner of you play area and if you step outside the perimeter the sensors will pause the game and cut the graphics. This would allow you to step back into your perimeter of the play area and continue play safely. Yes it would be annoying at first, much like how we had to get used to the wii controllers, but u would eventually adapt and the crossing the line would be the least of your worries. Also the games can't be played without the sensors, unless you have some sort of adapter and are using the goggles/glasses with a controller to play older platform games.

edit: i may have put to much thought into this. o_o'
 

Sinspiration

New member
Mar 7, 2010
333
0
0
The 5 Years Quote is the average time it takes an idiot to realize "But wait didn't that guy 5 years ago say we'd have this by now?! Whats going on?!" xD
 

Jaythulhu

New member
Jun 19, 2008
1,745
0
0
To be perfectly honest, I hope we don't get holodecks. As Scott Adams clearly explains in his book "Dilbert Predicts the Future", holodecks will be the end of mankind. Who'll want to go out and interact with real people and keep the species going, when <insert name of popular star/starlet here> and their identical twin are there to cater for your every whim?
 

s0m3th1ng

New member
Aug 29, 2010
935
0
0
The idea of becoming stuck in "augmented reality" is explored in Rin, Daughters of Mnemosyne (Anime)
In the later time periods, they have the ability to essentially do what this article is saying. EG, transparent glasses that convert the real world into a virtual world.
Problems arise when people become addicted to "Life 2.0" or whatever they call it and can't differentiate the real world from the virtual. SO they start seeing orcs and aliens even when the glasses are off.
I could so see this happening. People just really want to escape reality.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
I think Larry Niven's "Dreampark" and Virtual Reality gaming is far more likely than a Star Trek Holodeck.

The reason being that the Holodeck doesn't just use holograms despite the title, that's just jargon. As it has been described in the series, and in more detail in novels and various "tech manuals" for nerds, it makes heavy usage of both Replicator and Transporter technology. One of the reasons why you seem to have unlimited space to move in is because the transporters keep moving you and other things around without you realizing it. What's more a lot of the things present are real, having been created through matter replication, this is why there are safeguards that can be turned on or off, and how people can actually be killed within the "simulation". A Holodeck without it's safeguards might literally create an AI driven clone carrying a real gun and blow your head off.

To me the idea of being able to disassemble and re-assemble molecules into any conceivable shape, or load molecules into a cohesive energy beam and shoot it through space and reassemble them seems rather implausible, more so than most sciences. In fact, as many Trekkies can tell you, such technologies are responsible for some of the biggest inconsistancies and logical non-sequitors in the entire series, with these technologies being forgotten about, or written out with techno-babble whenever conveinent. Not to mention also being the magical solution pulled out in a lot of episodes after enough dramatic tension has been achieved. With things the Transporter has done alone, everyone in the entire Star Trek Universe should be an immortal 20-something in their physical prime (as someone's molecules can be re-assembled using earlier patterns while keeping their mind intact... a trick used to restore the characters of cast members who had been horribly mutated or otherwise altered to an extreme degree... including by the ravages of aging).

Given the power of hypnosis we've seen already, and the abillity of dysfunctional people to literally create delusional reality structures for themselves, I can see mind control technologies, or some kind of neural link, eventually harnessing such things for recreation. People being able to plug into a mental world that seems real, and then revert to normal through the use of machines or whatever. By their very nature though such technologies are always going to be dangerous, and that might affect the development and the number of people who would actually use them.

When it comes to LARPing, the problem with such things is always budget and the like. As stage magicians, old school movie producers (before fancy computers where in some cases they literally built parts of rome for example), and others have demonstrated, you can create almost anything given enough time and money. In theory a lot can be done that way, but to really reach it's potential you'd need rich philanthropists literally creating worlds, and then inviting people based on abillity more than expecting to be paid for running a theme park.

One of the biggest obstacles fo LARPing is of course also the apperance of the people involved and so on. A bunch of fat nerds in capes is a bunch of fat nerds in capes. Very few people in LARPs look like the characters they are supposed to be representing. What's more the game aspects of the entire thing oftentimes interfere with the immersion factor as well.

There have been the occasional works of fiction using premises where you'd have "recreationists" or "role-players" out on some island owned by a rich eccentric that recreated whatever setting for his amusement, and perhaps even went so far as to provide extensive cosmetic modification for the people he invited (so they would look like whatver role). The typical arrangement from such fiction ultimatly involving a contract with the person pretty much agreeing that by going, whatever happens to them happens during the duration. Things of course usually wind up getting really freaky and going horribly wrong. Movies like the cult classic "Westworld" were a variation on this, albiet using Robots who simply perceived the ordinary people and fat nerds as who they were supposed to be as opposed to any kind of extensive modification being involved... and of course people paid for that service as opposed to basically signing themselves over as glorified slaves/playthings for some rich eccentric.

Depending on the story the levels of viability of course vary. However in reality nobody with billions upon billions of dollars is going to build something like that. I also doubt enough people willing to run the risk of winding up spending four years or so as a slave building a Pyramid the old school way so some rich playboy of dubious sanity can live out his Pharoah fantasies actually exist. Never mind the off chance of say being fed to a pet lion in the arena or something (the protaganists and supporting cast in such stories usually get to be fairly lucky and get to begin as something cool, or at least not totally pathetic). :p
 

Paksenarrion

New member
Mar 13, 2009
2,911
0
0
The closest thing we've got right now is Minecraft.

I wish I had the time and the money to play Minecraft.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

New member
Sep 6, 2009
6,019
0
0
Sony will try to convince you that you need $200 glasses just to make "Augmented Reality" work. Then Nintendo will devise a system where it can work without glasses.