Editor's Note: J + RPG
- Thread starter John Funk
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FFVII was also the game that hooked me in JRPGs (it was in fact the first one that I owned). I saw them before and was interested in them (I think it was FFVIII that I saw) but never really grabbed my attention. It wasn't till i started playing FFVII and got hooked in the story that I became really interested. Even though I am not a die hard JRPG player I still played a few of them (mainly FF series games). Even though the gameplay seemed cartoonish, the thing that got me really hooked in the game was the story, it was so dramatic towards the end and took so many unexpected turns that when you think of how you started the game its hard to imagine all that happened, the cinematic were also pretty awesome also. Sadly I also have stopped playing JRPGs (or don't play them as much), it might be because many of the games take the same turns and follow similar story lines, but a reason that I found was that there wasn't enough time to do it all mainly because of all the things that you could do. I haven't beaten FF VII (sadly to say) because I was worried that I missed some content earlier in the game (like a character, summon, gear or part of the plot that can be missed) and even thought of restarting a few times, and I dont even want to get started with the Star Ocean game (if you played it even a little you have an idea of what im talking about). I think I talked enough for now, but to end it, yea I agree that it seems JRPGs seem to be slowly fading out for whatever reason. Good topic.
As a whole, the JRPG genre hasn't been that great. Unless you look at Atlus. Or Nippon Ichi. Or the defunct companies of Square and Enix. Really, it seems to be a collectively shared perception that the JRPG went downhill after FFX, and there's a really obvious reason for that. It feels like the SE merger ruined the entire genre, more than passed time or technology.
..you forgot Resonance of Fate. I've never been a die hard jrpg fan, but I've played FF7 and 8, Xenogears, and Chrono Trigger.. because those games had.. have.. serious story-telling, while other games made here at the same time had a "1-b" label somewhere and was considered meaningful. Or the head of a rabbit on a spike was said to be deep. I mean, seriously, have you taken a look at how bad the writing is in Doom and Quake?
Anyway. But Resonance of Fate takes the pacing from a JRPG game, but made the mechanics of it more edible and free-flowing. Anyone who has any sort of relationship to jrpgs should play that game, imo.
Anyway. But Resonance of Fate takes the pacing from a JRPG game, but made the mechanics of it more edible and free-flowing. Anyone who has any sort of relationship to jrpgs should play that game, imo.
I must also mention that in America, Final Fantasy continues to be ever so popular while Dragon Quest series has hardly any attention at all. While I like Final Fantasy I, IV and VI, Dragon Quest is a different from Final Fantasy and actually stick to their old roots of turn based combat. Final Fantasy continues to make changes like Active Time Battle (ATB) in FFIV, Sphere Grid in X, and the dreaded crystarium system as well as paradiam shift in XIII.
Has it gone downhill? Quite a bit. Unlikeable characters, bad storyline, unusual character and most JRPGs take itself very seriously designed almost make it a stereotype for JRPGs.
Unfortunately, Square Enix has a massive stranglehold of JRPG market and seeing why people hate JRPGs as a typical stereotype.
Has it gone downhill? Quite a bit. Unlikeable characters, bad storyline, unusual character and most JRPGs take itself very seriously designed almost make it a stereotype for JRPGs.
Unfortunately, Square Enix has a massive stranglehold of JRPG market and seeing why people hate JRPGs as a typical stereotype.
I have to say that it seems like the overall quality of the games has gone down hill. I started off with FF3/6 and fell for the genre quickly, heck I still play the old ones every so often, and am currently playing Chrono Trigger again. The new games though, including FF13, just feel lazy. They try and beat you over the head with the cinematics and the average creature encounters are now the length of an old boss fight. Remember how you used to beat your average encounter in under 30 seconds halfway through the game instead of 10 minutes, or how you used to get into the actual gameplay in about 5-10 minutes instead of watching the opening and tutorials for the first three hours like Star Ocean.
Okay, I'm going to stop ranting and go somewhere else now...
Okay, I'm going to stop ranting and go somewhere else now...
Persona 4, eh? Nifty. I'mna check that out.
For me, JRPG purchase has gone down through lack of awareness. The last JRPG I bought was 'Infinite Undiscovery' after laughing my head off at Unskippable's take of it. Other than that, I never see any advertisements or hear any buzz (excluding FF of course).
I was surprised to find it's.. actually really good! (To me, at least) There's a lot about it I love, from characters to game mechanics to the world as a whole. I keep putting off playing it more because I want to savour it over the Summer break.
For me, JRPG purchase has gone down through lack of awareness. The last JRPG I bought was 'Infinite Undiscovery' after laughing my head off at Unskippable's take of it. Other than that, I never see any advertisements or hear any buzz (excluding FF of course).
I was surprised to find it's.. actually really good! (To me, at least) There's a lot about it I love, from characters to game mechanics to the world as a whole. I keep putting off playing it more because I want to savour it over the Summer break.
I'm old, so I started playing (J)RPGs with 2 games for the Sega Master System (the NES-rival that no one in the US knows): Ys The Vanished Omens, and Phantasy Star. Ys had very wonky gameplay but it was incredibly atmospheric.
Phantasy Star, though, was very very good. It was better than Final Fantasy 1, which came out at about the same time in Japan (both about 1 year after the first Dragon Quest, I think), and better than Dragon Quest itself. It is a lost masterpiece of the genre.
By the way, years before Final Fantasy VII, Phantasy Star II (on the Sega Genesis) already did the "kill a protagonist" stuff. Not to mention the absolutely epic ending of the same game.
Phantasy Star, though, was very very good. It was better than Final Fantasy 1, which came out at about the same time in Japan (both about 1 year after the first Dragon Quest, I think), and better than Dragon Quest itself. It is a lost masterpiece of the genre.
By the way, years before Final Fantasy VII, Phantasy Star II (on the Sega Genesis) already did the "kill a protagonist" stuff. Not to mention the absolutely epic ending of the same game.
My first RPG was FF4 (as ff2 on the SNES) and I've played the shit out of that game. Through the SNES era I loved RPG's such as Chrono Trigger and secret of mana. even as Nintendo moved on I was still enjoying those games, I finally got Final Fantasy 6, and my one of my first uses of an emulator was to play translated versions of Final Fantasy 5 and Tails of Phantasia which were not available in the US at that point. But I was a Nintendo kid and while I loved square I also loved Mario and Link and when Square cut ties with Nintendo and moved on to Sony I felt betrayed. My friend also had the PC versions of FF7 and FF8 so I played through chunks of them with him, and he latter got a playstation and got FF9 and Xenogears but other than trying to play through his copy of FF9 on a broken second hand PlayStation that I had acquired I had little direct experience with that era of games, although I wish I had more because some of those games were great.
But now most new JRPGs don't interest me much and I think it is largely because of that "J" in the name. When I was growing up their was no concept of a JRPG. I didn't really think about where games came from. Their was nothing that felt particularly Japanese about Mario, or Mega Man, or in this case Final Fantasy. To me a game like final fantasy was what an RPG was, and their was no-need for it to be put into a sub-category. And, I think square felt the same way, they were making the games that they were making. But, more recently I feel Japanese makers of RPG's have been infusing them with an oppressive amount of "Animeness;" filling the games with common tropes from Pop anime, and to me it just feels weird and artificial. I even like anime, I've watched large amounts of Cowboy Bebop, Eva, Black Lagoon, Ghost in the Shell, and others. But what I don't like are when character types that would make sense in a drama about a bunch of highschool students are put into a medieval fantasy epic.
But now most new JRPGs don't interest me much and I think it is largely because of that "J" in the name. When I was growing up their was no concept of a JRPG. I didn't really think about where games came from. Their was nothing that felt particularly Japanese about Mario, or Mega Man, or in this case Final Fantasy. To me a game like final fantasy was what an RPG was, and their was no-need for it to be put into a sub-category. And, I think square felt the same way, they were making the games that they were making. But, more recently I feel Japanese makers of RPG's have been infusing them with an oppressive amount of "Animeness;" filling the games with common tropes from Pop anime, and to me it just feels weird and artificial. I even like anime, I've watched large amounts of Cowboy Bebop, Eva, Black Lagoon, Ghost in the Shell, and others. But what I don't like are when character types that would make sense in a drama about a bunch of highschool students are put into a medieval fantasy epic.
I don't know, to be honest, outside of Atlus and Nintendo, there hasn't been many JRPG, and really, Japanese developers in general that manage to grab my interest. And maybe that's what the problem is. Maybe the JRPG community is growing tired of the same old song and dance and want something new. And since the community outside of that fanbase was never interested to begin with, maybe that's why the JRPG is falling out of favour. That's not to say there are no JRPGs that try anything new, one of my favourite games for the PS2 was from Atlus, Steambot Chronicles, though whether or not it would be considered a JRPG I don't know.
This note is exactly me. I worshipped at the feet of ffvii. I actually took the time to figure out both the story and the weapon system in Vagrant Story. I got maybe halfway through ffxii. I haven't beaten the tutorial section of ffxiii.
There have been some fair jrpgish games lately - Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery etc. But nothing epic and grand and great...
There have been some fair jrpgish games lately - Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery etc. But nothing epic and grand and great...
I find JRPGs made in the last 10 years to be lacking in any sense of brevity.
I can pick up and beat FF6, 7 or (help me God for admitting this) 9 without having to grind once (as long as you know what you're doing of course). The games let you set your own pace and that helps re-playability considerably.
Squeenix pours mountains of empty text into its games, while just about all of them force a form of grind onto you (ironically, the ones that reduced the overt exp grind were the first to die. Fare thee well Suikoden and your direct-level system).
I can pick up and beat FF6, 7 or (help me God for admitting this) 9 without having to grind once (as long as you know what you're doing of course). The games let you set your own pace and that helps re-playability considerably.
Squeenix pours mountains of empty text into its games, while just about all of them force a form of grind onto you (ironically, the ones that reduced the overt exp grind were the first to die. Fare thee well Suikoden and your direct-level system).
I feel like the JRPG genre is too closely associated with Final Fantasy. Most of the people I've talked to in real life who say they don't like JRPGs have not played any non-Square games in the genre other than Pokemon. I also went through that cycle of playing and loving every Square game. I loved the SNES and PS1 titles, but from FFX onward I fell out of love with Final Fantasy. For a short while, I started to think I disliked JRPGs and delved into WoW for a long time. After quitting WoW, I had all this time to play other games without knowing what to do with it. A friend recommended Tales of the Abyss, and I gave it a try. I was kind of unsure for the first part of the game, then found myself hooked on it. I realized there was a whole world of good JRPGs outside Square Enix that I'd been missing, and started delving into more franchises I hadn't been very aware of: Mario RPGs, Fire Emblem, Mother, Suikoden, Shin Megami Tensei, and others. There's a boatload of games out there that aren't overloaded with cliches and have great systems. Nowadays, I don't feel like the genre has stagnated at all, though I wouldn't argue with anyone who says that Square Enix has.
Am I an outcast if I say Final Fantasy VIII was my first JPRG? My brother and I watched that opening cutscene over and over when we were younger. It's still my favorite. I think a problem with, well Final Fantasy, is that it's lost its focus. It needs to go back to being, like another article this week said, about the characters. Focus on making interesting characters that we care about, then build the game around them. That was why I liked VII, VIII, X, X-2 (Yes, I listed X-2), and to a smaller extent, IX.
XII was boring. No character development. No wonder you loaned it to a friend and never gave it back.
XII was boring. No character development. No wonder you loaned it to a friend and never gave it back.
I don't think we grew out of them, we just grew used to the same story and characters being rehashed over and over again.John Funk said:
So how come we don't feel the same way about the FPS? Especially WW2 FPS? I mean, have the Nazis ever won? It's not like the story and characters ever change in that regard (though Saboteur at least tried, bless its little misguided Scottish accent's heart).008Zulu said:
I love Bioshock. LOVE it. (Never played System Shock 2, so don't bring it up!) Tried Bioshock 2 and went, 'Meh, same old same old'.
Now, I bought Demon's Souls and Uncharted 2 the same day. Played a couple hours of Uncharted 2, got bored. Played Demon's Souls and only stopped when my husband reminded me of what day it was.
Story and characters are important as an enhancing factor, but rarely have I played a game solely due to the story. Been attracted by, yes. Been driven away by, yes. But only because of the story? No.
It was the gameplay, I think, that got repetitive, not the story and characters. However, I also like Lost Odyssey and Magna Carta, and of course, YMMV.